[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by Steve A

I was rather ruff this morning mucka i think these are worth 5k then at that price still id rather be in at 13p.

Ill have a look at DP

Hope you are now recovering mate.

[acerboo]

Originally Posted by peterg1965

I wouldn't be surprised if there is some form of fuel protest like there was in 2000.

Whilst I am a complete Tory Boy, I am still pissed off at the politicians who are completely and utterly out of touch with popular opinion. How many of the cabinet actually drive to a petrol station and fill up? I bet if challenged they would not have a f***ing clue as to the price of a litre of petrol/diesel.

There is a massive financial black hole that needs addressing, and the majority of people appreciate this and will bear some pain and generally support the Govt but continually hitting the motorist in the bollocks (unjustifiably) will not win friends!

I have emailed my MP to ask him, as my Westminster representative, at what price he considers fuel tax to be enough - I am anticipating a patronising response.

i remember prescott saying labour wanted to see petrol at £7 per gallon, not that they would stop there!!

[Dr Dave]

Originally Posted by Steve A

I was rather ruff this morning mucka

No sympathy! Self-inflicted! Where's your self-control, Steve?

[Rochdale Pioneers]

There is little point moaning about the price of fuel - nothing will be done about it. The Tories decided fuel was too expensive and introduced the Fuel Duty Escalator - massive above inflation increases every budget. And Labour attacked it.

Change government and Labour continued the escalator through to 2001, only dropping it after the protests. Duty then stayed stable for a few years before another few increases. The Tories protest it and pledge to cut duty when crude prices were high.

Change government and the Tories are whacking VAT up and plan another duty rise - the only thing dropped is their policy to cut duty. So they all see the motorist as a soft touch. And here's why. With the price of fuel not something they can directly control, there is no effective action they can take. The level of duty sets a base price, but the changes we see at the pump are nothing to do with duty, its all about the exchange rate to the US dollar and the price of crude.

We've seen pump price swings of 30p a litre with duty and VAT the same. Even if the government cut 20p a litre off duty, the pump price would quickly increase back. To give you a clear example of this, we have a comparatively high level of duty on unleaded, yet we are only 10th most expensive in Europe according to the AA. Lower duty does not protect motorists elsewhere - the price inflates anyway. An argument can be made on diesel where we tax both diesel and unleaded have the same rate of duty, which is different to the rest of Europe where diesel has a lower rate. So diesel, which is cheaper to produce, should be cheaper than unleaded on the same rate of duty. Its more expensive because we don't have enough refinery capacity to manufacture the UK's ever-growing diesel demands. The oil companies have no intention of doing so - they make extra profits on the imported diesel, so why bother?

A final point. We basically squandered North Sea Oil revenues in the 1980s, selling the rights off to oil companies very cheaply. They made the enormous profits, we didn't. On the other side of the north sea Norway kept control and is now filthy rich with no deficit and an economy thats still stable and happy.

BTW if any of the "we're broke" or "clearing up Labour's mess" has any numbers to back up the rhetoric, please post them. I have plenty in rebuttal - there's something wonderful about the likes of the EU, IMF, OECD etc etc that they don't lie about economic statistics the way politicians do!

[Steve A]

Originally Posted by JLR1969

Hope you are now recovering mate.

fresh as a daisy now pal

Originally Posted by Dr Dave

No sympathy! Self-inflicted! Where's your self-control, Steve?

my self control was in full effect thats why i was only ruff and not dying

Originally Posted by Rochdale Pioneers

There is little point moaning about the price of fuel - nothing will be done about it. The Tories decided fuel was too expensive and introduced the Fuel Duty Escalator - massive above inflation increases every budget. And Labour attacked it.

Change government and Labour continued the escalator through to 2001, only dropping it after the protests. Duty then stayed stable for a few years before another few increases. The Tories protest it and pledge to cut duty when crude prices were high.

Change government and the Tories are whacking VAT up and plan another duty rise - the only thing dropped is their policy to cut duty. So they all see the motorist as a soft touch. And here's why. With the price of fuel not something they can directly control, there is no effective action they can take. The level of duty sets a base price, but the changes we see at the pump are nothing to do with duty, its all about the exchange rate to the US dollar and the price of crude.

We've seen pump price swings of 30p a litre with duty and VAT the same. Even if the government cut 20p a litre off duty, the pump price would quickly increase back. To give you a clear example of this, we have a comparatively high level of duty on unleaded, yet we are only 10th most expensive in Europe according to the AA. Lower duty does not protect motorists elsewhere - the price inflates anyway. An argument can be made on diesel where we tax both diesel and unleaded have the same rate of duty, which is different to the rest of Europe where diesel has a lower rate. So diesel, which is cheaper to produce, should be cheaper than unleaded on the same rate of duty. Its more expensive because we don't have enough refinery capacity to manufacture the UK's ever-growing diesel demands. The oil companies have no intention of doing so - they make extra profits on the imported diesel, so why bother?

A final point. We basically squandered North Sea Oil revenues in the 1980s, selling the rights off to oil companies very cheaply. They made the enormous profits, we didn't. On the other side of the north sea Norway kept control and is now filthy rich with no deficit and an economy thats still stable and happy.

BTW if any of the "we're broke" or "clearing up Labour's mess" has any numbers to back up the rhetoric, please post them. I have plenty in rebuttal - there's something wonderful about the likes of the EU, IMF, OECD etc etc that they don't lie about economic statistics the way politicians do!

+9000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Ive been banging on about this for ages. It was a CATASTROPHIC and ENORMOUS mistake selling the oil off.

All political parties make mistakes, but that old cunt Thatcher should be burned for her part in this countries slow suicide.

[Mike in Hampshire]

@ Rochdale Pioneers - top post fella, nice to see some logical thought expressed clearly.

Can I just add that 4 pence per litre (18 p per gallon) on 10,000 miles per year at (say) 40 mpg = £45 extra per year. Of course, that isn't welcomed - what tax ever is? But come on, you can't run a BMW and get too excited at a £45 annual price rise, surely? Lets keep some perspective here.

Mike.

[acerboo]

Originally Posted by Steve A

fresh as a daisy now pal



my self control was in full effect thats why i was only ruff and not dying



+9000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Ive been banging on about this for ages. It was a CATASTROPHIC and ENORMOUS mistake selling the oil off.

All political parties make mistakes, but that old cunt Thatcher should be burned for her part in this countries slow suicide.

the unions had nothing to do with it then?

[Captain Chaos]

Originally Posted by Hotcoupe

Sorry Capt,it was silly of me and I should have made my post clearer just for your benefit

Apology accepted.

Originally Posted by Hotcoupe

It might pay to fill up today to avoid the 3.5p ish increase on a ltr come the 4th.

There you go :

I'll adjust my answer to allow you better understanding.

It won't - unless you're on an empty tank and happen to be driving past a garage.

There, sorted.

Now we can go back to where it all went wrong and have a group hug after realising the grim reality that we're all screwed anyway as there's no way back up the greasy slope now..