[porsche959]

Originally Posted by R.Thillman

I've been using Castrol Euro formula 0w-40 and my engine has always remained quite and smooth at any rpm. Pretty sure it's discontinued now though so it's really cheap if you do find it. Going to try out new liqui moly next.

engine tick is a fucking curse. when you have it, youll do anything to get rid of it.

i wish my engine was always smooth

[aholst048]

Originally Posted by porsche959

engine tick is a fucking curse. when you have it, youll do anything to get rid of it.

i wish my engine was always smooth

Once it's there, time for lifters, rollers, and a gasket (though honestly, by the time you need them, your valve cover will be leaking anyways haha). Attached is a photo of what you'll need minus valve cover gasket/adjuster motor gasket/eccentric shaft sensor gasket (recommend not using Victor Reinz, they don't fit correctly)

Oh, and a timing tool kit so you can lock the crank down while you take out the exhaust cam. ~$100 on amazon.

I should also add that you only need to replace your EXHAUST lifters. The intake lifters are under constant tension and can NOT tick.

[hassmaschine]

They're the same lifter? How are they not under tension? The main rockers are the same as well.

[porsche959]

Originally Posted by aholst048

Once it's there, time for lifters, rollers, and a gasket (though honestly, by the time you need them, your valve cover will be leaking anyways haha). Attached is a photo of what you'll need minus valve cover gasket/adjuster motor gasket/eccentric shaft sensor gasket (recommend not using Victor Reinz, they don't fit correctly)

Oh, and a timing tool kit so you can lock the crank down while you take out the exhaust cam. ~$100 on amazon.

I should also add that you only need to replace your EXHAUST lifters. The intake lifters are under constant tension and can NOT tick.

would you need to order a new exhaust cam and bearings?

[nsjames]

I imagine that's all going to depend on your particular motor and it's tolerances.

I know that mobil 1 is no longer LL-01 approved, but whatever. I only run 5K mile OCIs anyway, so it's fine.
I guess just try some different stuff until you find something your motor likes. I know lots of people have had great like with rotella, and it's all I ran i njeeps for years, but it just didn't work for me.

[porsche959]

another update:

fresh oil change.

put in 1 quart of marvel mystery oil, 6 quarts of rotella t6 5w-40

no change - fckin tick tick tick tick

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by nsjames

I imagine that's all going to depend on your particular motor and it's tolerances.

I know that mobil 1 is no longer LL-01 approved, but whatever. I only run 5K mile OCIs anyway, so it's fine.
I guess just try some different stuff until you find something your motor likes. I know lots of people have had great like with rotella, and it's all I ran i njeeps for years, but it just didn't work for me.

I still run Mobil 1 based on the CBS (or about 1 year, whichever comes first). it's fine. Honestly, they probably didn't change anything at all - but didn't want to pay whatever BMW's fee was to be 'certified'.

the only time I ever heard a tick was when I first did the MILVS installation, and of course I had a lot of the valvetrain in pieces. Haven't heard it since.

[aholst048]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

They're the same lifter? How are they not under tension? The main rockers are the same as well.

All 24 lifters are the same, the Valvetronic on the intake cam is putting constant tension on the intake lifters so they can't tick even if they wanted to. The exhaust cam on the N51/52 is just a standard cam setup so those are the ones that tick.

Originally Posted by porsche959

would you need to order a new exhaust cam and bearings?

Nope! Just lifters, rocker arm/rollers, and the gaskets you've removed.

I've attached the PDF with the TSB (head replacement hasn't been their recommendation since the TSB was updated in 2012)

[nsjames]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

I still run Mobil 1 based on the CBS (or about 1 year, whichever comes first). it's fine. Honestly, they probably didn't change anything at all - but didn't want to pay whatever BMW's fee was to be 'certified'.

the only time I ever heard a tick was when I first did the MILVS installation, and of course I had a lot of the valvetrain in pieces. Haven't heard it since.

I would run it out to the CBS minder, but after 5 or 6K my lifter tick comes back and annoys the shit out of me.

an oil/filter change and it's quiet again.

I know right?


I saw on BITOG that mobil stated the formulation is still fine for the older engines, but failed the new turbo N stuff, and they apparently weren't super interested in changing the oil to meet the new requirements.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by aholst048

All 24 lifters are the same, the Valvetronic on the intake cam is putting constant tension on the intake lifters so they can't tick even if they wanted to. The exhaust cam on the N51/52 is just a standard cam setup so those are the ones that tick.



Nope! Just lifters, rocker arm/rollers, and the gaskets you've removed.

I've attached the PDF with the TSB (head replacement hasn't been their recommendation since the TSB was updated in 2012)

I'm sorry but I'm not following you at all.

The lifters tick due to air in the lifters. That's a fault of the head design (whether it's only the exhaust side I'm not disputing). Newer lifters might be less prone to getting air in them, but regardless of Valvetronic, both the intake and exhaust lifters are tensioned in exactly the same way. Without any oil pressure, when the cam lobes are not pushing on them - they are collapsed. When the engine builds up pressure, they pump up again. I'm not sure why you think the intake cam 'tensions' them differently.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by nsjames

I would run it out to the CBS minder, but after 5 or 6K my lifter tick comes back and annoys the shit out of me.

an oil/filter change and it's quiet again.

I know right?


I saw on BITOG that mobil stated the formulation is still fine for the older engines, but failed the new turbo N stuff, and they apparently weren't super interested in changing the oil to meet the new requirements.

yeah, i would do it early if mine ticked too, especially if fresh oil quiets it down again.

[porsche959]

Ok guys not sure what happened but, I let the sit for 2 days and started her up. Ticking sound is 80% gone. Wow - mmo and rotella t6 works..

[aholst048]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

I'm sorry but I'm not following you at all.

The lifters tick due to air in the lifters. That's a fault of the head design (whether it's only the exhaust side I'm not disputing). Newer lifters might be less prone to getting air in them, but regardless of Valvetronic, both the intake and exhaust lifters are tensioned in exactly the same way. Without any oil pressure, when the cam lobes are not pushing on them - they are collapsed. When the engine builds up pressure, they pump up again. I'm not sure why you think the intake cam 'tensions' them differently.

The Valvetronic assembly on the intake cam is under tension via a spring assembly. That spring assembly paired with the different roller/rocker arm setup means that the intake lifters don't suffer from the problem the exhaust lifters do as that assembly has constant force on them. The exhaust lifters have smaller, weaker lifters, and only run off the pressure from the camshaft without any added pressure/lift from a separate system. The original lifters & roller/rocker arm design was not correct for the N52 at the end of the day, and required re-engineering to prevent the lifters from failing (yes, not being able to bleeding them constitutes a failure)

The only other possible cause of lifter tick on the N52 is worm camshaft bearing ledges causing inadequate oil pressure in that area of the head (which affect pressure at the lifters).

Originally Posted by porsche959

Ok guys not sure what happened but, I let the sit for 2 days and started her up. Ticking sound is 80% gone. Wow - mmo and rotella t6 works..

I hate the burst your bubble, it's just band-aiding the problem. Your problem still exists.


I don't want to be a jerk, but I've spent years working on these motors, and replacement of lifters & rollers/rocker arms have been the only 100% permanent fix (outside of the more rare camshaft bearing failures that have been SO bad to cause it)

[porsche959]

Originally Posted by aholst048

The Valvetronic assembly on the intake cam is under tension via a spring assembly. That spring assembly paired with the different roller/rocker arm setup means that the intake lifters don't suffer from the problem the exhaust lifters do as that assembly has constant force on them. The exhaust lifters have smaller, weaker lifters, and only run off the pressure from the camshaft without any added pressure/lift from a separate system. The original lifters & roller/rocker arm design was not correct for the N52 at the end of the day, and required re-engineering to prevent the lifters from failing (yes, not being able to bleeding them constitutes a failure)

The only other possible cause of lifter tick on the N52 is worm camshaft bearing ledges causing inadequate oil pressure in that area of the head (which affect pressure at the lifters).



I hate the burst your bubble, it's just band-aiding the problem. Your problem still exists.


I don't want to be a jerk, but I've spent years working on these motors, and replacement of lifters & rollers/rocker arms have been the only 100% permanent fix (outside of the more rare camshaft bearing failures that have been SO bad to cause it)

Appreciate the info. Do you know if this could cause engine failure? Or is it just a minor annoyance?

At this point it’s about return on investment - I’d rather spend $60 on new oil to reduce 80% of the noise versus several hundred (if not a few thousand) to eliminate the noise completely.

I think most people that own an e90 are in the same boat, these cars aren’t that expensive, so it doesn’t really make sense to spend that kind of $$$ if the ticking doesn’t kill the engine.

[aholst048]

Originally Posted by porsche959

Appreciate the info. Do you know if this could cause engine failure? Or is it just a minor annoyance?

At this point it’s about return on investment - I’d rather spend $60 on new oil to reduce 80% of the noise versus several hundred (if not a few thousand) to eliminate the noise completely.

I think most people that own an e90 are in the same boat, these cars aren’t that expensive, so it doesn’t really make sense to spend that kind of $$$ if the ticking doesn’t kill the engine.

As far as I've seen, just an annoyance. But depending on how bad it is, your resale value will be down the drain. The E90/1/2/3 market here in Portland is pretty strong (want a good one? $8-10k min), but I've seen "mechanic specials" with top end tick for $2-3k when otherwise perfect.

[CSBM5]

I've got two N52s; one we've owned since new (ordered it, E90 330i), and the other one bought used almost 3 years ago (E91).

The 330i has been perfect since new, engine-wise. Always has had 7k or less oil change intervals, etc. I have used Mobil 1 0W40 in it since it left free maintenance period (during the free period, did the inter interval oil change with BMW 5W30). No noise, no tick, etc, at 157k miles now.

The E91 was quiet for the first 18 months or so after purchase, then it started ticking during cold months of the year on start-up and for a short while after. Now it's starting ticking this year with 60F weather, and it doesn't go away as quickly. I was initially using M1 0W40, but at last oil change about 6 months ago switched to T6 5W40 hoping to help the tick. No luck. Car has 128k miles on it.

From all the research I've done, it's simply an auditory annoyance, but I've had one guy in a parking lot try to tell me my engine was about to fail, lol.

[hassmaschine]

maybe the slushboxes are more prone since they aren't really well suited to the higher RPMs like the 6mt?

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

maybe the slushboxes are more prone since they aren't really well suited to the higher RPMs like the 6mt?

I could certainly see this. Damn auto box is constantly seeing how fast it can keep you at 1500rpm

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by tlow98

I could certainly see this. Damn auto box is constantly seeing how fast it can keep you at 1500rpm

No kidding. It's #1 goal is to get to 6th gear as fast as possible and hopefully never come out of it. On a 2007 it is pretty awful to experience this slushbox and its programming. I did drive the E91 yesterday, and it started up with the ticking, and (as usual) after it was fully warmed up, I ran it hard up through 1, 2, 3, and then cruised along in 3rd between 5-6k for a few minutes. Tick gone for the rest of the day. It'll be back of course.

[nsjames]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

maybe the slushboxes are more prone since they aren't really well suited to the higher RPMs like the 6mt?

not if you got that paddle life.

mine sees a regular 4-7K RPM sustained usage.

[hassmaschine]

I'd be pretty annoyed with an "auto" trans that has to be shifted manually.

[nsjames]

compromises are made for that e91 love.