[rasa bmw]

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=33_1230 this is my setup,,so i see mine has the magnetic pickup,,,what needs replacing if no reluctor ring? is it the sensor itself?how does it get worn? if indeed it does. as said i sometimes get a dsc light when going round right hand bends ie usually a tightish roundabout,,same roundabout it happens 995 of the time,,and also if ive driven over very rough gravel road,,only happens till i release the gas pedal,,then it goes back to normal,,as said it dont happen very often but still niggles as i like cars perfect(ish)

[criscarp]

Originally Posted by rasa bmw

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=33_1230 this is my setup,,so i see mine has the magnetic pickup,,,what needs replacing if no reluctor ring? is it the sensor itself?how does it get worn? if indeed it does. as said i sometimes get a dsc light when going round right hand bends ie usually a tightish roundabout,,same roundabout it happens 995 of the time,,and also if ive driven over very rough gravel road,,only happens till i release the gas pedal,,then it goes back to normal,,as said it dont happen very often but still niggles as i like cars perfect(ish)

You should start another thread if this is going to hijack the original thread.
What fault code are you getting? Is it one specific wheel related code?
Wheel bearings magnet seal can deteriorate or get damaged and would need the wheel bearing replaced, rust particles around the sensor head and drive shaft or bearing magnetic seal surface, faulty sensor/cable/connector. Wheel loosing traction

[rasa bmw]

Originally Posted by criscarp

You should start another thread if this is going to hijack the original thread.
What fault code are you getting? Is it one specific wheel related code?
Wheel bearings magnet seal can deteriorate or get damaged and would need the wheel bearing replaced, rust particles around the sensor head and drive shaft or bearing magnetic seal surface, faulty sensor/cable/connector. Wheel loosing traction

no codes as is sporadic,,ie its just like dtc light flashing when wheel spinning etc,,i could hook my foxwell nt510 up and moniter live data while driving around the particular roundabout i suppose.

[criscarp]

Originally Posted by rasa bmw

no codes as is sporadic,,ie its just like dtc light flashing when wheel spinning etc,,i could hook my foxwell nt510 up and moniter live data while driving around the particular roundabout i suppose.

I would still expect a code to be logged, my car does if I trigger my DTS

[MrSweet1991]

So it took me 5 days or so, but removed the wheel, wheel hub and all rear arms and the rear wheel looked damn straight! Like, without even adjusting toe/camber it literally looked pretty good!

Got to chemix and they made a major error, when I phoned they said 1 guy was having an alignment when in fact there where around 4 waiting.. so get to chemix and 2 whole anxious hours later it finally goes on the ramp. The chap said straight away it looked much better, after a few tweaks all shit hits the fan and the toe, despite being not too far off was still off with no possible adjustment left on the toe.. so something whether it be the hub or the arms must have had a bend which improved it a lot.. but hitting that kurb either knocked the sub frame out of position or bent the frame.

It started to sink in.. I'm looking up and thinking "Shit".. exhaust has to come off, propshaft disconnected, brake lines, differential and then a subframe and all on my damn drive.. if I didn't laugh I'd cry.

So if anyone has any tips for removal please share, I've got newtis and YouTube which has always served me well. I'm thinking, disconnect all rear arms from hubs and leave driveshaft and arms connected to subframe, leave differential mounted to subframe which hopefully should mean I only need to drop the exhaust and remove the brake lines, I can get the diff and arms off afterwards.. that's about as far as I've got haha.

[criscarp]

Originally Posted by MrSweet1991

So it took me 5 days or so, but removed the wheel, wheel hub and all rear arms and the rear wheel looked damn straight! Like, without even adjusting toe/camber it literally looked pretty good!

Got to chemix and they made a major error, when I phoned they said 1 guy was having an alignment when in fact there where around 4 waiting.. so get to chemix and 2 whole anxious hours later it finally goes on the ramp. The chap said straight away it looked much better, after a few tweaks all shit hits the fan and the toe, despite being not too far off was still off with no possible adjustment left on the toe.. so something whether it be the hub or the arms must have had a bend which improved it a lot.. but hitting that kurb either knocked the sub frame out of position or bent the frame.

It started to sink in.. I'm looking up and thinking "Shit".. exhaust has to come off, propshaft disconnected, brake lines, differential and then a subframe and all on my damn drive.. if I didn't laugh I'd cry.

So if anyone has any tips for removal please share, I've got newtis and YouTube which has always served me well. I'm thinking, disconnect all rear arms from hubs and leave driveshaft and arms connected to subframe, leave differential mounted to subframe which hopefully should mean I only need to drop the exhaust and remove the brake lines, I can get the diff and arms off afterwards.. that's about as far as I've got haha.

Did you get a print off this time of the after values?And did you tighten everything up at ride height?

[MrSweet1991]

Originally Posted by criscarp

Did you get a print off this time of the after values?And did you tighten everything up at ride height?

Well this is an odd one, he said BMW have a simple but good way of measuring the ride height or something and it's simple measuring from the bottom of the alloy to the arch on front and same for rear and it was to get accurate measurements regardless of the variations in.. well I'm not sure what he said maybe it was something to do with BMW having standard, m sport and super sport I really cant remember but point is, my ride height at the front without any weight in was already at or a couple of mm below the loaded weight?

It's weird because the fronts as far as I'm aware are stock, the rears are D4's which are stock m sport LCI so yes they're slightly different but I was told only difference is the d4 coils are firmer than the d3 pre lci coils. Measured and counted coils and the d4 was exactly the same as my d3 so yeah the front being lower was a mystery but he said it doesnt matter so much he will just leave it as it is as it's already pretty much at the loaded weight.

Anyway, this is how it was bought in after the hub and arms where changed.



And this is how it was after adjusting toe to max and having a play with camber

[criscarp]

No I mean when you fitted the suspension back together did you yourself tighten everything up with the suspension at normal ride height as apposed to it hanging way down under the car. Also I thought you had replaced your control arms for new before changing the hub, but you said you changed them again? Does new mean second hand rubbish? Have you been fitting brand new parts and bushes or second hand ebay stuff?

How come the camber is out on the offside rear?

Only reason your front would be lower as you say is your springs are knackered.

Is it just all your bushes are old and warn out.

Bmw don't mention replacing the hub for alignment problems.

[MrSweet1991]

Originally Posted by criscarp

No I mean when you fitted the suspension back together did you yourself tighten everything up with the suspension at normal ride height as apposed to it hanging way down under the car. Also I thought you had replaced your control arms for new before changing the hub, but you said you changed them again? Does new mean second hand rubbish? Have you been fitting brand new parts and bushes or second hand ebay stuff?

How come the camber is out on the offside rear?

Only reason your front would be lower as you say is your springs are knackered.

Is it just all your bushes are old and warn out.

Bmw don't mention replacing the hub for alignment problems.

Ahh sorry, so to confirm a few things. I did torque the arms with the car on axle stands. The arms where in fact replaced with second hand ones, don't get me wrong I did inspect the bushes and then checked for play once installed but the bushes seemed fine that being no movement on the wheel.

As for bushes and what not being old and worm out, possibly, but then if we look 4000 miles ago before I hit the kurb both my tears toe and arm where in green so I'd say odds are a knock has created this issue.

Camber on the right side, I'm not sure he did adjust but the nut was seized so he had to spin the entire bolt and nut at the same time but said to be honest you've got to sort the subframe out so theres no good in me potentially snapping the bolt to get the nut free when this isn't going to be going back on the road until it all comes off. But.. maybe the subframe has shifted which is why it's even tricky to get the right side sorted.

I suppose if the hub mounting points distorted slightly it would have a direct impact on camber/toe and I have read stories on hubs being the culprit for bends. Whether or not it was that I don't know as I replaced hub and arms at the same time.

And yes, the front springs may be knackered so maybe I'll replace them to be on the safe side.

Later when my friend drops his impact driver I'm going to try and get it on 4 axle stands (tricky considering how low it is) and try to unbolt and tighten back each of the subframe bolts, I may find it comes out at an angle and i may find the subframe hasn't bent but instead bent the bolt which is holding the subframe at an angle. Failing that, it's the original plan and a subframe I suppose.

But yeah, thinking of other possibilities of the bend like bushes and what not I just think given that rear was all green 4 thousand miles ago it's unlikely

[juld0zer]

Bushes don't bend permanently. They deform due to force and will deflect once relieved, for example with a new arm.

Arms are cheaper and easier than changing a whole subframe. Buy Lemforder, TRW or quality aftermarket ones to cut down on cost. Tighten them down with the wheel at ride height either by sitting the back wheels on ramps, wooden planks, old rims etc. You can reuse the bolts to cut down current cost and replace later.

As someone pointed out earlier, the inner mounting location of the camber arm on the subframe shows some stress which suggests the impact was much greater than 2mph.

[criscarp]

1) when you tighten up your suspension arms and parts, the car needs to be at the correct ride height. ie. you need to jack up the wheel hub to be at the normal ride height of the car, not hanging down. So measure what it is from hub to arch when the car is on the ground first and then loosen all your suspension parts and re-tighten everything with the wheel hub jacked up. Do you understand what I mean? The same applies to the front.

2) since you hit the curb your front camber on the same side is out also by more than a deg? From the previous figures too. This is probably control arm bushes on the front near side.

3) if your adjustments on the rear are seized what is the point in taking it for alignment?

4) can you show current pictures of the camber and toe eccentric washer positions? This would give some indication if your sub frame has shifted slightly.

5) It would be a good idea to inspect your sub frame mounting bushes.

At 150,000 miles I would suspect all your bushes would be pretty shot. It a shame that your doing all this work and using old bits. I dont understand why hitting a curb would make 3 corners way out of spec?

[criscarp]

Mate I really am curious, can you take picture of the eccentric bolt/washer positions for both sides?

[MrSweet1991]

Originally Posted by criscarp

1) when you tighten up your suspension arms and parts, the car needs to be at the correct ride height. ie. you need to jack up the wheel hub to be at the normal ride height of the car, not hanging down. So measure what it is from hub to arch when the car is on the ground first and then loosen all your suspension parts and re-tighten everything with the wheel hub jacked up. Do you understand what I mean? The same applies to the front.

2) since you hit the curb your front camber on the same side is out also by more than a deg? From the previous figures too. This is probably control arm bushes on the front near side.

3) if your adjustments on the rear are seized what is the point in taking it for alignment?

4) can you show current pictures of the camber and toe eccentric washer positions? This would give some indication if your sub frame has shifted slightly.

5) It would be a good idea to inspect your sub frame mounting bushes.

At 150,000 miles I would suspect all your bushes would be pretty shot. It a shame that your doing all this work and using old bits. I dont understand why hitting a curb would make 3 corners way out of spec?

Hi Chris,

I'll try and do everything you asked for as soon as I can, hopefully today

But to answer some things, I completely get what you mean about the suspension, when I tightened the arms I tightened the top two arms control and wishbone i believe just by manouvering the hub with my hands as it was only on the axle at the point, toe arm yes I think just my hand I was able to manoeuvre that but with the camber arm and trailing arm I did lift the camber arm up from under the coil to align the holes slightly.. point is though as you said, I should have raised the hub to the ride height which is most definitely wasn't.

The front alignemnt will definitely be sketchy as it's never had one since I've owned the car. The sheet of paper that shows the rear wheel all in green (2017 or 2018 I believe it was done) was when Chemix said to me "from past experience, these tie rod/track rod nuts seize so bad that they normally sheer off, I could try but bare in mind it could snap" so I said yeah you may as well and sure enough it snapped.. now the car went off the road and in the 15 months it was off I did change the tie rod track rod for a new pair but I think the chap at chemix never adjusted the front, on a rear wheel car would you have to do the rear first and align the front afterwards? That's the only reason I can think that it's been left out.

The bushes on the front control arms, I will check them for sure as they could very well be shot.. mind you, when I first took the car to chemix like a few weeks back they did wobble my front wheels but they didn't mention anything so maybe they are okay.. I suppose I'll have to check myself.

As for the seized nut that was my fault when I took it in a few weeks ago he actually sprayed the toe and camber on the drivers side and said before you bring it back after changing the arms and hub try to loosen these.. with everything going on I forgot like a wolly and sure enough it was on pretty solid :/ he could still adjust the camber as the nut and bolt spun together though.


As for the used arms and hub, I just thought at the time I need to know what I'm dealing with.. hubs, arms or subframe and I quickly ebayed some 330d arms and unbelievably an entire set of 5 used was just 6 minutes away from Chemix.. so I thought if the bushes appear okay it should be good enough to just see if it cures the alignemnt.. if it did then yeah I'd probably invest in a new complete set of rear arms but for £40 I just thought it was a quick and cheap way of identifying the source of the bend.

As for the last point, are you saying it seems 3 points of the car have changed since the last alignment in 2017/2018? I'll have to check once I post this reply and compare yesterday's to the first one.

I'll probably do a video of the eccentric washers and maybe a little glance around the subframe, you never know you might spot something as well.

[criscarp]

Originally Posted by MrSweet1991

Hi Chris,

I'll try and do everything you asked for as soon as I can, hopefully today

But to answer some things, I completely get what you mean about the suspension, when I tightened the arms I tightened the top two arms control and wishbone i believe just by manouvering the hub with my hands as it was only on the axle at the point, toe arm yes I think just my hand I was able to manoeuvre that but with the camber arm and trailing arm I did lift the camber arm up from under the coil to align the holes slightly.. point is though as you said, I should have raised the hub to the ride height which is most definitely wasn't.

The front alignemnt will definitely be sketchy as it's never had one since I've owned the car. The sheet of paper that shows the rear wheel all in green (2017 or 2018 I believe it was done) was when Chemix said to me "from past experience, these tie rod/track rod nuts seize so bad that they normally sheer off, I could try but bare in mind it could snap" so I said yeah you may as well and sure enough it snapped.. now the car went off the road and in the 15 months it was off I did change the tie rod track rod for a new pair but I think the chap at chemix never adjusted the front, on a rear wheel car would you have to do the rear first and align the front afterwards? That's the only reason I can think that it's been left out.

The bushes on the front control arms, I will check them for sure as they could very well be shot.. mind you, when I first took the car to chemix like a few weeks back they did wobble my front wheels but they didn't mention anything so maybe they are okay.. I suppose I'll have to check myself.

As for the seized nut that was my fault when I took it in a few weeks ago he actually sprayed the toe and camber on the drivers side and said before you bring it back after changing the arms and hub try to loosen these.. with everything going on I forgot like a wolly and sure enough it was on pretty solid :/ he could still adjust the camber as the nut and bolt spun together though.


As for the used arms and hub, I just thought at the time I need to know what I'm dealing with.. hubs, arms or subframe and I quickly ebayed some 330d arms and unbelievably an entire set of 5 used was just 6 minutes away from Chemix.. so I thought if the bushes appear okay it should be good enough to just see if it cures the alignemnt.. if it did then yeah I'd probably invest in a new complete set of rear arms but for £40 I just thought it was a quick and cheap way of identifying the source of the bend.

As for the last point, are you saying it seems 3 points of the car have changed since the last alignment in 2017/2018? I'll have to check once I post this reply and compare yesterday's to the first one.

I'll probably do a video of the eccentric washers and maybe a little glance around the subframe, you never know you might spot something as well.

I don't see any reason why they couldn't do either first but most 4 wheel alignment systems the user follows whats on the screen. To be honest I haven't had much luck with the places around my area, they just seemed to never be able to do it correctly. They don't seem trained or skilled, and don't even have the correct tools and they don't load the car either. If they couldn't align the rear they should still align the front.

They will not be able to adjust the camber on your near side front as there is no adjustment, its nothing to do with you tie rod ends which is the toe.
The front should be in spec if your control arms and bushes are in good order and fitted correctly and the strut pin is still in place.

I would just concentrate on the rear for now to be honest. Its not that far out. But both sides are out.

Its difficult to feel play in the rear control bushes because the coil spring is keeping it all under tension.

[MrSweet1991]

Originally Posted by criscarp

I don't see any reason why they couldn't do either first but most 4 wheel alignment systems the user follows whats on the screen. To be honest I haven't had much luck with the places around my area, they just seemed to never be able to do it correctly. They don't seem trained or skilled, and don't even have the correct tools and they don't load the car either. If they couldn't align the rear they should still align the front.

They will not be able to adjust the camber on your near side front as there is no adjustment, its nothing to do with you tie rod ends which is the toe.
The front should be in spec if your control arms and bushes are in good order and fitted correctly and the strut pin is still in place.

I would just concentrate on the rear for now to be honest. Its not that far out. But both sides are out.

Its difficult to feel play in the rear control bushes because the coil spring is keeping it all under tension.

Hi Chris,

Video is being uploaded showing both sides of toe and camber eccentric washers and also a mooch around the rear subframe. It took quite a while to get the tears on axle stands lol.

[criscarp]

you could have just crawled under the back end to take a couple of pics. lol

[MrSweet1991]

Originally Posted by juld0zer

Bushes don't bend permanently. They deform due to force and will deflect once relieved, for example with a new arm.

Arms are cheaper and easier than changing a whole subframe. Buy Lemforder, TRW or quality aftermarket ones to cut down on cost. Tighten them down with the wheel at ride height either by sitting the back wheels on ramps, wooden planks, old rims etc. You can reuse the bolts to cut down current cost and replace later.

As someone pointed out earlier, the inner mounting location of the camber arm on the subframe shows some stress which suggests the impact was much greater than 2mph.

Hi mate,

As I say I replaced the arms not necessarily as a permanent solution but assuming the bushes where in reasonable condition I thought it would be good enough to get the alignment in the green zone, that way for just £40 I've diagnosed the problem, after that maybe then I'd invest into some lemforders but as seen in the outcome is would seem some of the bend was resolved but it's still out so that money on lemforders can go on a rear subframe for now.

Also, I'm about to post a video of the rear toe and camber eccentric washers to give you an idea of where it stands in contrast to the alignment paper, and also some poking around the subframe. It's so damn rusty I wouldn't be surprised if some of the welds where that weakened that bump did knock it.

As for the 2mph bump I'm not sure what to say other than explain exactly what happened. I was at a complete stop and pulled out to turn right, just as the cars about to straighten up it starts to slip out to the side, the road I'm currently on is a "back street" where it literally had no sun so this road was literally a sheet of ice.. so I wasnt driving I was in the middle of turning on the side road so I'm sort of visualising the speed of that movement and just estimated it to be like 2mph. The angle it finally hit the kurb wasnt good either, it hit the lower back corner so if you imagine the arms on the hub it would have hit down by the toe/camber arms.

[MrSweet1991]

Originally Posted by criscarp

you could have just crawled under the back end to take a couple of pics. lol

Lmao, well I thought it would be a start to a very long rear subframe project

Here's the video anyway

https://youtu.be/0-71WCLXBgQ

[criscarp]

Originally Posted by MrSweet1991

Lmao, well I thought it would be a start to a very long rear subframe project

Here's the video anyway

https://youtu.be/0-71WCLXBgQ

I will study this. what size wheel and tyre is on the rear and what is the gap between the tyre and arch lip and is it the same both sides?

And when did you fit those springs

[criscarp]

The sub frame where the toe arms attach look fine.

The get that into spec you only need 2mm more adjustment on the toe arm. This may be achieved by loosening the arms(trailing arm, control arm and wish bone and toe arm) and jacking the hub up to the correct ride height and re-tighten them up, while maybe also put pressure on the hub pushing in the front and pulling out the rear. Failing that I would fit adjustable toe arms. I wouldn't mess with the sub frame.

[MrSweet1991]

Originally Posted by criscarp

The sub frame where the toe arms attach look fine.

The get that into spec you only need 2mm more adjustment on the toe arm. This may be achieved by loosening the arms(trailing arm, control arm and wish bone and toe arm) and jacking the hub up to the correct ride height and re-tighten them up, while maybe also put pressure on the hub pushing in the front and pulling out the rear. Failing that I would fit adjustable toe arms. I wouldn't mess with the sub frame.

Hi Chris,

I was going to reply tomorrow as when you said about measurements I thought crap, I literally just got it on Axle stands and removed a wheel

But I see what you're saying, me and my dad both said it's absolutely crazy to look at that wheel which as you've just stated is 2mm off being officially "within spec" it's what made it hard to sink in, all of this and I'm looking at the wheel and it's seriously close to being perfect. That said, toe is one thing what about the camber? I believe the eccentric bolt was at its lowest, wouldn't adjusting the camber back into spec push the toe further back out of adjustment?

[MrSweet1991]

I just looked at the alignment and realised that's actually within spec already.. so this literally is assuming the right side isn't fluffed all over 2mm toe which a set of adjustable toe arms would more than solve.. very interesting analysis