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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > Regional Forums > UK > UK Technical Forum > MY N53 (NOX, Injectors, rough run, sooty exhaust) Is running badly how do I diagnose



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      10-16-2019, 08:04 AM   #155
Andystobbs
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I was wondering about balance shaft timing if a chain had been done.
As a rule of thumb I'd say there is no such thing as a good quality BMW timing chain on a modern engine.
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      10-16-2019, 08:06 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Andystobbs View Post
I was wondering about balance shaft timing if a chain had been done.
As a rule of thumb I'd say there is no such thing as a good quality BMW timing chain on a modern engine.
No balance shaft on an n53 I don't think so anyway !
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      10-16-2019, 02:29 PM   #157
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I think I got Stratified mode working now with NOXEM
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      10-16-2019, 05:58 PM   #158
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INPA shows my exhaust Vanos fluctuates on steady rpm, going to replace it. It fluctuates like in those videos: https://bimmerprofs.com/rough-run-vanos/ while the intake one does not fluctuate.
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      10-17-2019, 07:33 AM   #159
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Anybody knows how to read OBD Mode 6 misfire counters on N53? I cant make any sense from this. I tried two different apps and both show exact same details. I was expecting to see some other rows and 12 rows specifically showing counts, 2 rows for each cylinder. Maybe need to try some other app on Windows, but what if it will just show same stuff.
Also, these numbers do not change after driving. only one 0 changed into 5 after a trip and those very large numbers increased by just 1. The other ones like 22, 14, 51 are exactly the same as they were yesterday.
EDIT: I was looking for those counters shown there: https://bimmerprofs.com/misfire-counters/
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      10-17-2019, 07:57 AM   #160
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You need a scanner going in on BMW protocol rather than the various modes of EOBD
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      10-17-2019, 08:12 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andystobbs View Post
You need a scanner going in on BMW protocol rather than the various modes of EOBD
I have a good one OBDLink MX, but heard ISTA also shows this, need to find what page is it. Also it was mentioned Mode 6 is just OBD, no special protocols.
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      10-17-2019, 01:32 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jirka330i View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_460cs View Post
A wide band probe and a nox sensor are completely different beasts you can't connect them up... your other assumptions are accurate, after coding a new nox cat/sensor there is a learning period of 200 ish miles that the ecu will operate in all 3 modes regardless of fault condition. Then it will error and only run homogenous.
yes...they are...I do realize...noxem still uses nothing more than wideband lambda sensor from bosch and satisfies the need of msd80 to get the proper set od binary data through the canbus; it is nothing else then an analogue electric signal from the probe in the exhaust adjusted by an analogue part of the noxem unit and converted into a set of binary data...and I kind of believe that the digital part ox noxem and oem unit are identical so the trick might be jsut about twisting the analogue signal...
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Originally Posted by jirka330i View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_460cs View Post
A wide band probe and a nox sensor are completely different beasts you can't connect them up... your other assumptions are accurate, after coding a new nox cat/sensor there is a learning period of 200 ish miles that the ecu will operate in all 3 modes regardless of fault condition. Then it will error and only run homogenous.
yes...they are...I do realize...noxem still uses nothing more than wideband lambda sensor from bosch and satisfies the need of msd80 to get the proper set od binary data through the canbus; it is nothing else then an analogue electric signal from the probe in the exhaust adjusted by an analogue part of the noxem unit and converted into a set of binary data...and I kind of believe that the digital part ox noxem and oem unit are identical so the trick might be jsut about twisting the analogue signal...
If you can do that my hats off to you!
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      10-17-2019, 03:28 PM   #163
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I need to look into spark plug holes again, and all of them this time. Last time there was some oil in 1-2 of them, but not much, I just cleaned it. Can oil actually get into the cylinder and foul spark plug? I mean spark plug is torqued, so how would the oil get in there past the spark plug thread which is kinda long and tightened....

I say this because I get bad vibrations and rpm floats on cold start and then after drive it becomes almost smooth and rpm rock steady, every time I drive from cold start.
Almost as if something either burns off or warms up or lubricates I don't know.

I will check oil filter too and both Vanos solenoids will get replaced soon (one has fluctuation).
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      10-17-2019, 03:40 PM   #164
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Oil gets into plugs in a number of ways

Overspill from top ups

Vapour leak from oil cap seal which then dribbles down to plug wells

Cracked cam cover leaking oil.

All this happens around cylinder 3 iirc

The area under cam cover and around plugs and coils should be oil free and largely spotless
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      10-17-2019, 04:20 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dormermike View Post
Oil gets into plugs in a number of ways

Overspill from top ups

Vapour leak from oil cap seal which then dribbles down to plug wells

Cracked cam cover leaking oil.

All this happens around cylinder 3 iirc

The area under cam cover and around plugs and coils should be oil free and largely spotless
Top ups - no spill 100%. Oil cap seal (entire cap actually) I replaced weeks ago.
Going to spot clean it all including spark plug holes and see if it remains clean or not.
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      10-17-2019, 05:23 PM   #166
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Yeah worth checking. If it's not going down into the cylinder it's working its way up from the cylinder!

Only takes a tiny amount of oil to make a mess of the threads and plug.
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      10-17-2019, 06:07 PM   #167
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After driving, rpm stops moving like it does on cold start, sometimes even kind of a lot but engine never dies. After driving it's steady when idle, but vibrations are still there however a bit smaller. I remember INPA was showing 2 injectors had elevated values compared to other 4 in rough run menu, will look at that too again. So many things planned to do.

Driving cruising with constant speed in 6th gear I was getting 42 british MPG, not bad!
Strangely as soon as I stop and idle, average MPG (25) shown in L/100 tends to increase by 0.1 every now and then, as if it was burning a lot of fuel when idling.
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      10-18-2019, 03:41 AM   #168
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well..I am not the in-depth expert on this...it is more about speaking to the right people; I recently spoke to this guys http://www.rs.canlab.cz/?q=cs/usb2can_interface and they confirmed that their "black box" can read the can bus communication and also send its own info to canbus; I am going to send them my old oem nox unit and whether they will be able to offer some solution

However, my priority is to find proven nox delete/decat solution...sadly the tuners seems to be a bit vague characters...
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      10-18-2019, 04:24 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_460cs View Post
Every one want to know MPG!!! Here is some real world data from my car with nox delete, tune and normal driving style.. I am not hanging around but I'm not braking any records or taking flight!


Ok here is guide to operation based on mpg shown in the trip computer


< =25-26mpg on a 15 mile run , you car is sick and probably has injector issues , approx 320 mile per tank

26-30mpg = not using stratified mode approx 350-370 miles per tank

32-39.6 mpg car is using stratified mode target at 34.8 mpg on a a roads circa 60mpg with some town driving less an 2 miles of the 15 mile run.. approx 400-420 miles per tank

Normal tank usage 400-420, I always use shell 99 octane as it better for the injectors and gets a slight mpg improvement (which offsets cost) once fuel trims have adapted.

Long runs like motorways at fixed speed should be very high mpg.. 450mikes per tank


That's what I get with a nox delete on my daily commute..


Lastly calculated mpg will vary by around 5-8% less than the trip computer eg 33 mpg is actually 31 mpg...

Of course I also find the engine responds well to an Italian tune up.. this of course will effect MPG!!!
you are right...we all seem to be very mpg minded...we want to hear nice fairy tales...and that is why mpg marketing succeeds to deceive us
noxem is a good example too with its claimed mpg savings...I have fooled myself a couple of months ago but now I do try to get sober and withdraw from it soon.
Among others...they claim on their main page that fuel consumption reduction reaches 15-20%. How to read this? Well, I think that the potential (and very theoretical) reduction consists of 2 parts here- one given by the recovery of the stratified (however its size is very much impacted by a driving style...if you are used to give it a go, and your engine is already 90% in homogenous, the saving wonīt be great) and one brought by restriction of the nox cat regenerations (by the cheating of ecu with nox data...so the ecu believes nox cat has fantastic efficiency); as they claim in their FAQs regeneration happens only every 7-8,000km and in much shorter regeneration cycle vs oem nox which would prescribe regeneration every 1500km and longer reg-cycle...wow...what a saving here!...for few euros saved on mpg some of us (including myself) who have had nox cat still alive (say it can survive up to 120k miles) are willingly cloging/killing the nox cat (in the value od 2500euro) faster then intended by german engineers....
Isnīt that because we are human beings who want to believe in nice stories...which bee-profs and the likes can deliver???

Last edited by jirka330i; 10-18-2019 at 04:36 AM..
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      10-18-2019, 04:52 AM   #170
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1. I don't think not doing regen "kills" or "clogs" nox cat. I think it does nothing to it apart from preventing the surface of cat to be clean from residue and do it's job related to emissions. But someone would have to look into that cat, open it, see how much open space there is there (probably looks like honeycomb).
2. mpg savings I don't care what B-Proffs say I just wanted to get Stratified back and after looking at instantaneous MPG while cruising, I'm a believer in Stratified mode. Sure, in City driving gain will be smaller than lots of highway. Can't wait to my next 3h long drive to see trip mpg.
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      10-19-2019, 09:54 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by aaronblack View Post
In my opinion NOXEM is still one of the best 2 options (other being mapping) and there are always those who have trouble with products!

Some have mapped, some have NOxEM both from everything everyone has said and I've read are the only 2 options available and both have pros and cons!
New member here, Did you end up going with either of them? how did you end up deleting your nox cats?
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      10-19-2019, 10:23 AM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey77T View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronblack View Post
In my opinion NOXEM is still one of the best 2 options (other being mapping) and there are always those who have trouble with products!

Some have mapped, some have NOxEM both from everything everyone has said and I've read are the only 2 options available and both have pros and cons!
New member here, Did you end up going with either of them? how did you end up deleting your nox cats?
Welcome to the forum mate!

I tried Direnza but that didn't fit my 330i might do for the 325i! I've contacted some tuners for now waiting for their response will update when I get something!
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      10-19-2019, 12:55 PM   #173
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Got leaky injectors. Just took out all spark plugs to check them out and clean the holes, look for any oil etc.
Spark plug 5 and 4 smell fuel.
Now looking at INPA Rugh Run, trying to make something out of it. I remember when injector is leaking, cylinder efficiency raises because of the extra fuel and it is compensated by leaning out other 2 in the bank.
I also remember firing order somehow affects what we see as a result in INPA too, meaning the one before or after might show up somehow affected.
Strangely cylinder 6 seems affected most in INPA and yet definitely no fuel smell there.
No 6 however was the only one that had weird white residue/powder on the outside of coil pack and on the walls inside. I just wiped that off. And that spark plug No6 seemed like wasn't maybe torqued, it came out way too easy.
Anyway, I am probably looking at replacing 2 injectors, 4 and 5, right? Since there is the leaking fuel.
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      10-19-2019, 01:04 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schriss View Post
Got leaky injectors. Just took out all spark plugs to check them out and clean the holes, look for any oil etc.
Spark plug 5 and 4 smell fuel.
Now looking at INPA Rugh Run, trying to make something out of it. I remember when injector is leaking, cylinder efficiency raises because of the extra fuel and it is compensated by leaning out other 2 in the bank.
I also remember firing order somehow affects what we see as a result in INPA too, meaning the one before or after might show up somehow affected.
Strangely cylinder 6 seems affected most in INPA and yet definitely no fuel smell there.
No 6 however was the only one that had weird white residue/powder on the outside of coil pack and on the walls inside. I just wiped that off. And that spark plug No6 seemed like wasn't maybe torqued, it came out way too easy.
Anyway, I am probably looking at replacing 2 injectors, 4 and 5, right? Since there is the leaking fuel.
Shoot! Last I changed all sparks I could smell a lot of fuel on maybe 2 or 3 and beside that, the small holes next to the injectors whatever they are had oil in them too.

If you do happen to find cheap new -11 injectors do let me know as I'm on the look out too.
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      10-19-2019, 01:09 PM   #175
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"You can check Rough run menu (../F5/F7), but this menu tends to show incorrect data (especially for older software releases). Remember: in this menu cylinders are in firing order!" - great, so that's why I got confused. At least the number matches, two leaking and two showing unusual values. What's the firing order anyway?
EDIT: Nevermind. B-Profs to the rescue yet again: "Note: Rough run data are in firing order (1/5/3/6/2/4); increased efficiency: value below 0."
That firing order still doesn't make any sense to me.
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      10-19-2019, 01:17 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronblack View Post
Shoot! Last I changed all sparks I could smell a lot of fuel on maybe 2 or 3 and beside that, the small holes next to the injectors whatever they are had oil in them too.
I had a little bit of oil there too, I assumed it's oil cap leaking because there was a bit of oil around it and on the side under it. I've replaced it.

By the way - what torque for those spark plugs?
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