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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90/E92/E93 Marketplace (For Sale / Trade / Wanted) > SPONSORS Classifieds/Groupbuys/Specials Area > Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Parts > xHP Flashtool - Flash your automatic trans! Official thread



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      07-10-2018, 07:52 PM   #2179
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Originally Posted by mob17 View Post
Can't wait until support for E70 X5 LCI is here. Will be buying this straight away
You and I would both be customers. I am not sure they do any 8 speeds at the moment, do they? IF they do, I can't wait.. would love to enhance my X5 50i!
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      07-11-2018, 02:32 AM   #2180
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Improvement of ZF8 tranny will be A BEAST.
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      07-11-2018, 03:35 PM   #2181
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Originally Posted by roadkillrob View Post
Love the update, my only remaining thing I didn't love about Stage 3 was my 2->1 blip was a bit too intense, set it to -25 and now it doesn't lurch and is much better on my car.

Was hoping to change some shiftpoints, but seems that is not what I thought it was, is full throttle shift RPM.

Any chance you will allow changing shift points in the future so we can change the road speed an up shift occurs - due to the speed of the roads I normally drive on a lot, would love to change the 3-4 and 4-5 shift point by a few MPH.

Keep up the great work!
We're already working on that. We hope to release it in July!
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      07-11-2018, 03:39 PM   #2182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Street of Rage View Post
Improvement of ZF8 tranny will be A BEAST.
ZF8 flash is already running on our 335i F31. There is still a ton of work ahead, but the main issue (TQ Limits) is already solved and it runs very, very solid with adapted MHD Stage 2 map. MHD sent us a revised map to match the removed TQ limits and now this car runs 100% smooth like stock, but much stronger AND the trans will last forever like this, as all the clutch pressures are now in check to match the raised TQ.
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      07-11-2018, 11:09 PM   #2183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBT-Tuning View Post
ZF8 flash is already running on our 335i F31. There is still a ton of work ahead, but the main issue (TQ Limits) is already solved and it runs very, very solid with adapted MHD Stage 2 map. MHD sent us a revised map to match the removed TQ limits and now this car runs 100% smooth like stock, but much stronger AND the trans will last forever like this, as all the clutch pressures are now in check to match the raised TQ.
That's very nice to hear!!!!!
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      07-13-2018, 07:14 PM   #2184
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Originally Posted by RBT-Tuning View Post
We're already working on that. We hope to release it in July!
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      07-13-2018, 07:15 PM   #2185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBT-Tuning View Post
ZF8 flash is already running on our 335i F31. There is still a ton of work ahead, but the main issue (TQ Limits) is already solved and it runs very, very solid with adapted MHD Stage 2 map. MHD sent us a revised map to match the removed TQ limits and now this car runs 100% smooth like stock, but much stronger AND the trans will last forever like this, as all the clutch pressures are now in check to match the raised TQ.
Also I have a ZF8 car in the garage also - great news!
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      07-14-2018, 10:14 AM   #2186
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I used a different Android phone when I bought the license on xHP. How can I flash maps with my new phone? It's telling me I need to create a back up on my new phone but doesn't show the back up button on the app.
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      07-14-2018, 02:27 PM   #2187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBT-Tuning View Post
ZF8 flash is already running on our 335i F31. There is still a ton of work ahead, but the main issue (TQ Limits) is already solved and it runs very, very solid with adapted MHD Stage 2 map. MHD sent us a revised map to match the removed TQ limits and now this car runs 100% smooth like stock, but much stronger AND the trans will last forever like this, as all the clutch pressures are now in check to match the raised TQ.
RBT-Tuning:
Outside of the programmatic/syntactical and/or modular/schematic differences, could you please share with us some of the key, high-level differences between the [a] tuning and [b] resulting performance potential of the ZF6 (Gen-2) vs. the ZF8? Also, are there major differences between their respective potential tuning granularity?

ZF has long claimed that the ZF6 (Gen-2) was and still is the shift speed benchmark between the 2 transmissions -- even though this was not fully exploited in most BMW models. It will be interesting to get your real-world perspective.

Other Commentary:
Some may not know this... but, the ZF6 is still being produced/manufactured... and, in Australia (found in several Ford models), it is featured in some of the quickest and fastest RWD, street-legal, daily-driven sedans in the world. Interestingly, many of the aforementioned Ford vehicles also have inline-6s powering them. The 335i parallel is notable. Back to the ZF6, however... NIZPRO (and, now, some of their competition) reinforces and, more recently, began tuning them (namely the Ford-licensed ZF6s), resulting in their ability to easily handle 1000+ horsepower, and with shift speeds that are world-class (and I don't mean "almost like DCT"... I literally mean world-class, DCT or otherwise).

As I've previously referenced, when Dr. Gerhard Wagner, Group Executive ZF car driveline division ZF, was asked if the ZF 6-speed automatic is outdated with the introduction of the ZF 8-speed, his response: "Certainly not. The 6-speed automatic transmission will continue to provide the benchmark with the reaction and shifting times of a dual clutch transmission." And, ZF has openly stated - many times - that it used the ZF6 as its shift-speed and reaction-time benchmark when developing the ZF8. The whole purpose of the ZF8 was to fit more ratios, with a wider ratio spread, into the same package to help partners (car manufacturers) meet emissions requirements and average fleet fuel efficiency targets. It was not their primary mission to improve transmission performance, per se. However, many are led to believe that the ZF8 is a huge leap forward in transmission performance, when in fact it isn't... it's just that BMW chose to hamper the ZF6's performance in many models (for a greater distinction between volume and high-performance models). BMW was forced to stop hampering the ZF8's performance (as much as it did the ZF6), as an increasing number of manufacturers (who were not hampering the ZF8's potential) were starting to partner with ZF, for an increasing number of vehicle models. Essentially, competition forced BMW's hand. But, back to the original point, the ZF6 always had this potential... it was just hidden in the software calibration (as now mostly proven by the xHP OTS calibrations -- you'll know why I write "mostly proven" below).

Below are 2 examples (videos) of the ZF6, in Australia, shifting in ways that nobody has ever seen/heard a ZF6 shift, here in the US. The 2nd video, in particular, showcases shifts that I've only heard built GT-Rs (with transmissions in "R" mode) execute. And, there are many, many more examples of this on the web (in Australia). In my estimation, this suggests that we still have not seen the FULL potential of the ZF6 in BMW models. And, even though our xHP Stage 3 OTS calibrations are HUGE leaps forward compared to stock (I certainly appreciate the improvement), I think the best is yet to come. I know that it can be EXTREMELY difficult to tune any high-performance transmission to both shift quickly and smoothly... blending engine torque and rotating assembly inertia, while timing each stage of the respective outgoing and oncoming (and overlapping) clutch disengagement/engagement, at all RPMs, at all loads, for each gear change... it's a very, very tall order... and, requires a LOT of development work and tight ECU/DME tune integration. However, all that said, it's still possible... and I hope we continue to see innovation on this front. Because, literally, ultimately, the ZF6's potential is not much different from the best-calibrated DCTs in the world. The questions then become... [a] what kind of a market is there to support the development required to take xHP to the next level and, by extension, [b] what is the market willing to pay to obtain this level of top-tier performance (which I'm hoping xHP will be at the center of)?



Last edited by E60535i; 07-14-2018 at 08:30 PM..
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      07-15-2018, 06:19 PM   #2188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanometer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mob17 View Post
Can't wait until support for E70 X5 LCI is here. Will be buying this straight away
[COLOR="Navy"]You and I would both be customers. I am not sure they do any 8 speeds at the moment, do they? IF they do, I can't wait.. would love to enhance my X5 50i![/COLOR]
I think they will release it later this year. Fingers crossed!
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      07-17-2018, 07:46 AM   #2189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E60535i View Post
RBT-Tuning:
Outside of the programmatic/syntactical and/or modular/schematic differences, could you please share with us some of the key, high-level differences between the [a] tuning and [b] resulting performance potential of the ZF6 (Gen-2) vs. the ZF8? Also, are there major differences between their respective potential tuning granularity?
They are both very similar, with the ZF8 having 2 major advantages:

- Shift time is heavily dependent on the gearing difference between 2 gears, with the 8HP having much smaller gaps between gears.

- TQ intervention during a shift on the engine side has advanced. The more modern engine controllers realise TQ intervention during a shift through spark/fuel cut, rather than spark retard. Better said, they use both methods depending how the transmission requests it. AFAIK the MSD80 used in N54 does not even offer a spark cut option. Maybe the later MEVD on N55 E-Series do, but one of the tuners would have to come up with it.

And last but not least, shift times are dependent on the inertia from the crankshaft, pistons etc. So the same trans can shift quicker on cars with lighter flywheel, crankshaft etc.

Last edited by RBT-Tuning; 07-17-2018 at 10:24 AM..
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      07-19-2018, 03:25 PM   #2190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rundskop View Post
Currently flashed stage 3 v2.0 on stock 135i.

As much as I'm enjoying it, I find M mode shifting a bit too aggressive for my needs.

I'll likely purchase Stage 2 and give it a try. Curious if anyone else has opted to switch to Stage 2 from stage 3, switch from 2.0 to a different variant, or if it's best to just go custom map (?)

Ideally I'd like to reduce the amount the throttle blips on downshift for M Mode only, and leave everything else alone.

Cheers!

PS: Car was an absolute blast in hills today.
HI,

I recently switched to Stage 2 from Stage 3.
For me it wasn't the manual mode; the sport mode was just too harsh and wasn't smooth with my transmission. It could have been the adaptation, but I don't know.
I like the stage 2 sport mode, but would be okay with the stage 3 manual.

A mix and match option would be great if you own all the maps.
being able to take the manual mode from S3 and use the other maps from S2 would be most excellent. But for now, I'm on S2.
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      07-19-2018, 03:34 PM   #2191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E60535i View Post
RBT-Tuning:
Outside of the programmatic/syntactical and/or modular/schematic differences, could you please share with us some of the key, high-level differences between the [a] tuning and [b] resulting performance potential of the ZF6 (Gen-2) vs. the ZF8? Also, are there major differences between their respective potential tuning granularity?

ZF has long claimed that the ZF6 (Gen-2) was and still is the shift speed benchmark between the 2 transmissions -- even though this was not fully exploited in most BMW models. It will be interesting to get your real-world perspective.

Other Commentary:
Some may not know this... but, the ZF6 is still being produced/manufactured... and, in Australia (found in several Ford models), it is featured in some of the quickest and fastest RWD, street-legal, daily-driven sedans in the world. Interestingly, many of the aforementioned Ford vehicles also have inline-6s powering them. The 335i parallel is notable. Back to the ZF6, however... NIZPRO (and, now, some of their competition) reinforces and, more recently, began tuning them (namely the Ford-licensed ZF6s), resulting in their ability to easily handle 1000+ horsepower, and with shift speeds that are world-class (and I don't mean "almost like DCT"... I literally mean world-class, DCT or otherwise).

As I've previously referenced, when Dr. Gerhard Wagner, Group Executive ZF car driveline division ZF, was asked if the ZF 6-speed automatic is outdated with the introduction of the ZF 8-speed, his response: "Certainly not. The 6-speed automatic transmission will continue to provide the benchmark with the reaction and shifting times of a dual clutch transmission." And, ZF has openly stated - many times - that it used the ZF6 as its shift-speed and reaction-time benchmark when developing the ZF8. The whole purpose of the ZF8 was to fit more ratios, with a wider ratio spread, into the same package to help partners (car manufacturers) meet emissions requirements and average fleet fuel efficiency targets. It was not their primary mission to improve transmission performance, per se. However, many are led to believe that the ZF8 is a huge leap forward in transmission performance, when in fact it isn't... it's just that BMW chose to hamper the ZF6's performance in many models (for a greater distinction between volume and high-performance models). BMW was forced to stop hampering the ZF8's performance (as much as it did the ZF6), as an increasing number of manufacturers (who were not hampering the ZF8's potential) were starting to partner with ZF, for an increasing number of vehicle models. Essentially, competition forced BMW's hand. But, back to the original point, the ZF6 always had this potential... it was just hidden in the software calibration (as now mostly proven by the xHP OTS calibrations -- you'll know why I write "mostly proven" below).

Below are 2 examples (videos) of the ZF6, in Australia, shifting in ways that nobody has ever seen/heard a ZF6 shift, here in the US. The 2nd video, in particular, showcases shifts that I've only heard built GT-Rs (with transmissions in "R" mode) execute. And, there are many, many more examples of this on the web (in Australia). In my estimation, this suggests that we still have not seen the FULL potential of the ZF6 in BMW models. And, even though our xHP Stage 3 OTS calibrations are HUGE leaps forward compared to stock (I certainly appreciate the improvement), I think the best is yet to come. I know that it can be EXTREMELY difficult to tune any high-performance transmission to both shift quickly and smoothly... blending engine torque and rotating assembly inertia, while timing each stage of the respective outgoing and oncoming (and overlapping) clutch disengagement/engagement, at all RPMs, at all loads, for each gear change... it's a very, very tall order... and, requires a LOT of development work and tight ECU/DME tune integration. However, all that said, it's still possible... and I hope we continue to see innovation on this front. Because, literally, ultimately, the ZF6's potential is not much different from the best-calibrated DCTs in the world. The questions then become... [a] what kind of a market is there to support the development required to take xHP to the next level and, by extension, [b] what is the market willing to pay to obtain this level of top-tier performance (which I'm hoping xHP will be at the center of)?









Much respect!
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      07-21-2018, 06:15 AM   #2192
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@xHP: In the customization module under "Stay in 2ND Gear at standstill (M-MODE)" i see this:

Gear Display

O Default

O Off

O On


If i want the tranny to set itself in 1st in stand still, (manual mode stage3) i presume i have to choose "off", right ?
Just to be sure..

Also: Probably i didn't look well but i can't find the instructions to how to use the customization module to change things after you flashed a stage ..
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      07-21-2018, 02:53 PM   #2193
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Does the new version work well with jb4 i have 335i n55 fbo jb4 and alpina flash was thinkin to try xhp stage 3 but im reading that with jb4 it's no good i emailed the xhp company but they haven't responded to me
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      07-21-2018, 10:17 PM   #2194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paolotonzini View Post
Does the new version work well with jb4 i have 335i n55 fbo jb4 and alpina flash was thinkin to try xhp stage 3 but im reading that with jb4 it's no good i emailed the xhp company but they haven't responded to me
I would call this "educated conjecture"

To the best of my knowledge the JB4 makes power by modifying or replacing stock output signals from the DME. The transmission will still get stock load requests from the DME. I believe a BEF (back-end flash) from a reputable tuner can resolve this issue.
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      07-21-2018, 10:36 PM   #2195
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Originally Posted by 2007BMW335i View Post
I would call this "educated conjecture"

To the best of my knowledge the JB4 makes power by modifying or replacing stock output signals from the DME. The transmission will still get stock load requests from the DME. I believe a BEF (back-end flash) from a reputable tuner can resolve this issue.
Yea i am running just mhd backend flash so I don't know if i would have problems or not 🙄
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      07-23-2018, 06:30 AM   #2196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paolotonzini View Post
Yea i am running just mhd backend flash so I don't know if i would have problems or not 🙄
Exactly. But this is a general downside, when using piggy-back stuff in combination with Auto-Transmissions. But yes, xHP works with JB4. Just disconnect it during flashing.
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      07-23-2018, 07:27 AM   #2197
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I'm very interested in xHP Flashtool as the only "performance" mod I'd like to perform on my Euro 2006 330i, but seeing how many changes and how much progress has been made on the maps for the more popular 335i and 330d i wonder whether there are updates planned for Stage 3 of the VB31?

I'd gladly be a tester for any upcoming developments.
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      07-23-2018, 08:23 AM   #2198
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@xHP: Can you please answer my last reply and/or tell me where to find the customization module instructions? I purchased this module but i need to know exactly how to work with it.
Thx.
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      07-23-2018, 08:32 AM   #2199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMM View Post
@xHP: Can you please answer my last reply and/or tell me where to find the customization module instructions? I purchased this module but i need to know exactly how to work with it.
Thx.
xHP Manual, Page 20.

Available on our website and within the app!
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      07-23-2018, 08:41 AM   #2200
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@xHP: Thx that i already knew, what i want to know are the instructions to know how to use it after a flash, i only read how to use it before a flash.

Thus, from what i can imagine, i have to flash back from stage 3 to the stock file and then use the customization module and set the feature "Stay in 2ND Gear at standstill (M-MODE)" under GEAR DISPLAY to "OFF" and then reflash the stage 3 map to obtain the 1st gear at standstill, correct?

Can you please confirm, xHP?
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