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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > Regional Forums > UK > UK Technical Forum > MY N53 (NOX, Injectors, rough run, sooty exhaust) Is running badly how do I diagnose



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      09-29-2019, 04:09 PM   #45
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It would be amazing if I get anywhere close to 42mpg. I have high hopes Especially funny after coming from 2.2L which got me 31mpg on highway at best.
The last time after resetting the gauge and driving some time on motorway with forced desulphation I came back with 24mpg or so. I wonder if that forced desulphation (via INPA) is the reason for so bad mpg? (apart from NOX not working)
Still waiting for my mechanic to come back from vacation, 2 more weeks.
Car is grounded because of NOX and also crooked belt tensioner.
Good I didn't get rid of my old E46 2.2L straight six just yet.
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      09-29-2019, 06:19 PM   #46
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Think I'm going to order a NOXEM for my f10. Didnt realise the sensor was replaceable.
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      09-29-2019, 06:42 PM   #47
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The part number on the Bosch sensor is 0258017025 Wideband 5-wire, around 80 online, they have simply adapted this to their NOXEM ECU, better then forking out 450 for a BMW OEM one.

https://www.bosch-automotive-catalog...uct/0258017025
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      09-30-2019, 10:20 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by leew88 View Post
The part number on the Bosch sensor is 0258017025 Wideband 5-wire, around 80 online, they have simply adapted this to their NOXEM ECU, better then forking out 450 for a BMW OEM one.

https://www.bosch-automotive-catalog...uct/0258017025
Definitely nice that it's replaceable.

Wonder why they even need it? I had presumed the ECU just sent "ok" type messages to the DME regardless of what is going on inside the cat or exhaust.
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      09-30-2019, 10:48 AM   #49
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Q3: What are the main differences between NOXEM emulator and ‘’usual’’ emulators?

A3: NOXEM des not ‘’cheats’’ all signals necessary for measurements. NOXEM measures all possible parameters in real time. Also NOXEM does not use ‘’record/playback’’ principle, but generates output parameters based on deep understanding and mathematical model of NOx system. This manner guarantees best possible performance over all conditions.

https://bimmerprofs.com/faq/
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      09-30-2019, 10:57 AM   #50
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I'm still wondering what the actual difference in terms of mpg is between NOxEM and map-out! I've seen a lot of 40mpg claims from users of NOxEM but not much from those whom have mapped it out!

Although by the looks of it I think when my exhaust is sorted I'll just opt for the NOxEM as it's been tested by most.
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      10-01-2019, 01:24 PM   #51
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It all depends if the "map-out" retains the stratified running mode, but I don't see how that's going to work because the DME needs it's algorithms to determine when and when not to run stratified and switch between homogeneous mode (depending on conditions). If it's mapped out then effectively you have no data from the NOX sensor so the DME will resort to emergency homogeneous mode.

There is also a reason as to why there is a separate ECU attached to the NOX sensor for all these extra processing. I would like to see a vehicle with a NOX mapped-out with INPA showing the running mode - you are able to get it into stratified by pressing the throttle lightly above 1.5k rpm to see the switch happening.
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      10-02-2019, 05:07 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by schriss View Post
It would be amazing if I get anywhere close to 42mpg. I have high hopes
When stratifed is working, the economy is amazing. I sometimes think it's learned to run on air! On a run I get over 550 miles from a tank! Ridiculous from a 3L straight six...
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      10-02-2019, 05:36 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil325i View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by schriss View Post
It would be amazing if I get anywhere close to 42mpg. I have high hopes
When stratifed is working, the economy is amazing. I sometimes think it's learned to run on air! On a run I get over 550 miles from a tank! Ridiculous from a 3L straight six...
Have you got NOxEM as well?
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      10-02-2019, 06:17 PM   #54
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Have you got NOxEM as well?
No, OEM NOx sesnor which has been changed once in 104K.
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      10-03-2019, 05:37 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leew88 View Post
It all depends if the "map-out" retains the stratified running mode, but I don't see how that's going to work because the DME needs it's algorithms to determine when and when not to run stratified and switch between homogeneous mode (depending on conditions). If it's mapped out then effectively you have no data from the NOX sensor so the DME will resort to emergency homogeneous mode.

There is also a reason as to why there is a separate ECU attached to the NOX sensor for all these extra processing. I would like to see a vehicle with a NOX mapped-out with INPA showing the running mode - you are able to get it into stratified by pressing the throttle lightly above 1.5k rpm to see the switch happening.
Exactly my thinking too. It might as well be the map-out is just to get rid of codes and user is told to ignore cat/sensor from now on, but the car might not run stratified after that. And the user is told, well increased fuel consumption is because you gained so much power...
Until someone with a map-out proves this wrong.
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      10-03-2019, 05:56 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schriss View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by leew88 View Post
It all depends if the "map-out" retains the stratified running mode, but I don't see how that's going to work because the DME needs it's algorithms to determine when and when not to run stratified and switch between homogeneous mode (depending on conditions). If it's mapped out then effectively you have no data from the NOX sensor so the DME will resort to emergency homogeneous mode.

There is also a reason as to why there is a separate ECU attached to the NOX sensor for all these extra processing. I would like to see a vehicle with a NOX mapped-out with INPA showing the running mode - you are able to get it into stratified by pressing the throttle lightly above 1.5k rpm to see the switch happening.
Exactly my thinking too. It might as well be the map-out is just to get rid of codes and user is told to ignore cat/sensor from now on, but the car might not run stratified after that. And the user is told, well increased fuel consumption is because you gained so much power...
Until someone with a map-out proves this wrong.
That is exactly my thinking hence why all my emails to those who map have been "Will the car run stratified..." but neither have come back either because they are too busy or don't want it on paper essentially!

However, Will who started this post has mapped his out and has confirmed his runs stratified as far I can think. But again until this is proven I don't think I'll risk of mapping it out as according to bimmerprofs once you do this there isn't a easy way of restoring the nox system
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      10-03-2019, 12:15 PM   #57
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Quote:
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That is exactly my thinking hence why all my emails to those who map have been "Will the car run stratified..." but neither have come back either because they are too busy or don't want it on paper essentially!

However, Will who started this post has mapped his out and has confirmed his runs stratified as far I can think. But again until this is proven I don't think I'll risk of mapping it out as according to bimmerprofs once you do this there isn't a easy way of restoring the nox system
Yea I'm not even considering mapping it out, I prefer NOXEM even if its more expensive, as it delays cat regen which my guess is what the nox ecu does, and it's probably not something that can be regulated by a map.
What probably happens is that NOXEM reports much smaller amounts of nox compared with oem sensor, thats probably where the delay comes from, as the engine thinks nox accumulates much slower in the cat so time between regens is extended. That's my guess.
My mechanic still on vacation, NOXEM still in a box...
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      10-04-2019, 09:38 AM   #58
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Very interesting information here. I too am on the fence on whether to map-out or replace with Noxem.

I think it's best to go with Noxem and then remove 2ndary cats plus remap. That way you'll still retain stratified running when cruising (better mpg) but then higher power when flooring it (due to remap and slightly less restrictions sans 2ndary cats).

That's my thinking anyway.
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      10-04-2019, 09:45 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tr1ppy View Post
Very interesting information here. I too am on the fence on whether to map-out or replace with Noxem.

I think it's best to go with Noxem and then remove 2ndary cats plus remap. That way you'll still retain stratified running when cruising (better mpg) but then higher power when flooring it (due to remap and slightly less restrictions sans 2ndary cats).

That's my thinking anyway.
I was thinking this until I read bimmerprofs regarding tunning N series non turbo (N/A) engines for more power and it's pretty much a no unless you have the 325i!

But as it seems it's recommended not to tune the 330i which I have so in my case I'm pretty certain on just NOxEM and decat!
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      10-04-2019, 04:55 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tr1ppy View Post
Very interesting information here. I too am on the fence on whether to map-out or replace with Noxem.

I think it's best to go with Noxem and then remove 2ndary cats plus remap. That way you'll still retain stratified running when cruising (better mpg) but then higher power when flooring it (due to remap and slightly less restrictions sans 2ndary cats).

That's my thinking anyway.
I would also question if stratified would be retained post remap (with NOXEM fitted), which is the prime reason I won't risk it for the sake of maybe 10bhp if that. I'd spent the money on a nice exhaust and other mods instead.
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      10-05-2019, 06:21 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronblack View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by schriss View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by leew88 View Post
It all depends if the "map-out" retains the stratified running mode, but I don't see how that's going to work because the DME needs it's algorithms to determine when and when not to run stratified and switch between homogeneous mode (depending on conditions). If it's mapped out then effectively you have no data from the NOX sensor so the DME will resort to emergency homogeneous mode.

There is also a reason as to why there is a separate ECU attached to the NOX sensor for all these extra processing. I would like to see a vehicle with a NOX mapped-out with INPA showing the running mode - you are able to get it into stratified by pressing the throttle lightly above 1.5k rpm to see the switch happening.
Exactly my thinking too. It might as well be the map-out is just to get rid of codes and user is told to ignore cat/sensor from now on, but the car might not run stratified after that. And the user is told, well increased fuel consumption is because you gained so much power...
Until someone with a map-out proves this wrong.
That is exactly my thinking hence why all my emails to those who map have been "Will the car run stratified..." but neither have come back either because they are too busy or don't want it on paper essentially!

However, Will who started this post has mapped his out and has confirmed his runs stratified as far I can think. But again until this is proven I don't think I'll risk of mapping it out as according to bimmerprofs once you do this there isn't a easy way of restoring the nox system
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronblack View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by schriss View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by leew88 View Post
It all depends if the "map-out" retains the stratified running mode, but I don't see how that's going to work because the DME needs it's algorithms to determine when and when not to run stratified and switch between homogeneous mode (depending on conditions). If it's mapped out then effectively you have no data from the NOX sensor so the DME will resort to emergency homogeneous mode.

There is also a reason as to why there is a separate ECU attached to the NOX sensor for all these extra processing. I would like to see a vehicle with a NOX mapped-out with INPA showing the running mode - you are able to get it into stratified by pressing the throttle lightly above 1.5k rpm to see the switch happening.
Exactly my thinking too. It might as well be the map-out is just to get rid of codes and user is told to ignore cat/sensor from now on, but the car might not run stratified after that. And the user is told, well increased fuel consumption is because you gained so much power...
Until someone with a map-out proves this wrong.
That is exactly my thinking hence why all my emails to those who map have been "Will the car run stratified..." but neither have come back either because they are too busy or don't want it on paper essentially!

However, Will who started this post has mapped his out and has confirmed his runs stratified as far I can think. But again until this is proven I don't think I'll risk of mapping it out as according to bimmerprofs once you do this there isn't a easy way of restoring the nox system

To confirm it runs stratified. You need to get INPA and confirm what your car is doing. Technically a NOX system is not a requirement to run the engine in lean burn mode it is an add on.

My real world fuel economy is circa 420 miles per tank it can do allot more on a run but mixed town driving etc is 420.
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      10-06-2019, 06:44 AM   #62
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Techincally NOX is not requirement for lean, but my understanding is that MSD software requires it. According to Bimmerprofs: "if engine control unit memory contains error messages, which refers to NOx catalytic converter and/or NOx sensor, most advanced modes – Stratified charge and Homogeneous lean – won’t be available. The engine will run in alternative (emergency) operation mode: Homogeneous injection."
and "In no way, the N43/N53 series engine can work without NOx system."

And this is what they say about NOX map-out: https://bimmerprofs.com/disprogramming-nox-system/
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      10-06-2019, 09:05 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schriss View Post
Techincally NOX is not requirement for lean, but my understanding is that MSD software requires it. According to Bimmerprofs: "if engine control unit memory contains error messages, which refers to NOx catalytic converter and/or NOx sensor, most advanced modes – Stratified charge and Homogeneous lean – won't be available. The engine will run in alternative (emergency) operation mode: Homogeneous injection."
and "In no way, the N43/N53 series engine can work without NOx system."

And this is what they say about NOX map-out: https://bimmerprofs.com/disprogramming-nox-system/
Quote:
Originally Posted by schriss View Post
Techincally NOX is not requirement for lean, but my understanding is that MSD software requires it. According to Bimmerprofs: "if engine control unit memory contains error messages, which refers to NOx catalytic converter and/or NOx sensor, most advanced modes – Stratified charge and Homogeneous lean – won't be available. The engine will run in alternative (emergency) operation mode: Homogeneous injection."
and "In no way, the N43/N53 series engine can work without NOx system."

And this is what they say about NOX map-out: https://bimmerprofs.com/disprogramming-nox-system/


Bimmerproffs are totally incorrect on that point a nox delete absolutely will run stratified and homo lean.. however they are not in the business of advocating that method.

That's how my car is at right now and for the last 2 years..


Someone commented that they can run 10% more economical than fully operational factory car again I'd like to see that proved as the only way that an improved off 10% could be made is if you remove the nox cat .. again something easily achievable with a nox delete or noxem.

In simplistic terms if you have a 325i than a remap is best if you have a 330i then either option would give a similar result. In all case physically removing the nox cat is going to get more economy and performance as it reduces back pressure on the exhaust system. Certainly allot more beneficial than aftermarket performance exhaust back boxes.
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      10-06-2019, 09:20 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schriss View Post
Q3: What are the main differences between NOXEM emulator and ''usual'' emulators?

A3: NOXEM des not ''cheats'' all signals necessary for measurements. NOXEM measures all possible parameters in real time. Also NOXEM does not use ''record/playback'' principle, but generates output parameters based on deep understanding and mathematical model of NOx system. This manner guarantees best possible performance over all conditions.

https://bimmerprofs.com/faq/
Quote:
Originally Posted by schriss View Post
Q3: What are the main differences between NOXEM emulator and ''usual'' emulators?

A3: NOXEM des not ''cheats'' all signals necessary for measurements. NOXEM measures all possible parameters in real time. Also NOXEM does not use ''record/playback'' principle, but generates output parameters based on deep understanding and mathematical model of NOx system. This manner guarantees best possible performance over all conditions.

https://bimmerprofs.com/faq/
It has a wide band sensor at it heart so it can measure oxygen in the exhaust.
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      10-06-2019, 05:52 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_460cs View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by schriss View Post
Techincally NOX is not requirement for lean, but my understanding is that MSD software requires it. According to Bimmerprofs: "if engine control unit memory contains error messages, which refers to NOx catalytic converter and/or NOx sensor, most advanced modes – Stratified charge and Homogeneous lean – won't be available. The engine will run in alternative (emergency) operation mode: Homogeneous injection."
and "In no way, the N43/N53 series engine can work without NOx system."

And this is what they say about NOX map-out: https://bimmerprofs.com/disprogramming-nox-system/
Quote:
Originally Posted by schriss View Post
Techincally NOX is not requirement for lean, but my understanding is that MSD software requires it. According to Bimmerprofs: "if engine control unit memory contains error messages, which refers to NOx catalytic converter and/or NOx sensor, most advanced modes – Stratified charge and Homogeneous lean – won't be available. The engine will run in alternative (emergency) operation mode: Homogeneous injection."
and "In no way, the N43/N53 series engine can work without NOx system."

And this is what they say about NOX map-out: https://bimmerprofs.com/disprogramming-nox-system/


Bimmerproffs are totally incorrect on that point a nox delete absolutely will run stratified and homo lean.. however they are not in the business of advocating that method.

That's how my car is at right now and for the last 2 years..


Someone commented that they can run 10% more economical than fully operational factory car again I'd like to see that proved as the only way that an improved off 10% could be made is if you remove the nox cat .. again something easily achievable with a nox delete or noxem.

In simplistic terms if you have a 325i than a remap is best if you have a 330i then either option would give a similar result. In all case physically removing the nox cat is going to get more economy and performance as it reduces back pressure on the exhaust system. Certainly allot more beneficial than aftermarket performance exhaust back boxes.
Did your remapper explain how their map works I.e how it runs stratified without the ecu/sensor etc? Is a loop system?

Also what is your take on bimmerprofs stating not to remap N series as it will damage the engine etc? Maptech will decat, map-out and remap for an additional 15/20bhp on the 330i for a very reasonable price!
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      10-10-2019, 08:43 AM   #66
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Anybody know whether it's safe to drive with the NOx sensor physically disconnected from the exhaust with the EML on?
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