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      01-03-2018, 01:11 PM   #1
Hornswoggler
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EGR Valve broken, What are my options? 2010 335d

Hello all! Great resource and community we have here.

I usually lurk but today I wasn't able to get a clear answer to my problem... not one that I like anyway. I appreciate the expertise here and hope you guys can help me sort through these issues.

Issue:
My EGR Cooler has a broken valve and I hesitate to throw money at it! Car went into limp mode the other day. Shop says something about the EGR cooler (valve broken) and SCR metering. Parts + Labor to repair is around $2k.

Background:
I've owned this car (2010 335d, 152k+ miles) for 5 years and over the past 2 years its cost me about $8k in repairs (excluding oil/tires/fluids/brakes). I'm on the fence of selling it, cutting my losses and getting a VW GTI instead, but sometimes hopeful that the worst is behind me and I can get a few reliable years out of it. Feels like a gamble more than any previous BMW I've owned. Great car when it runs! I do wish it had a spare tire and I also miss shifting.

Repair Options:
Car is at a local Euro specialty shop with a quote of around $2k to repair. This includes a new EGR cooler.

I'm interested in ways to simplify the vehicle, make it more reliable, and possibly cheaper to repair. Between the emissions equipment and carbon build-up (had cleaned last year) I can't help but run into alphabet delete mods/threads. Going Stage II would cost between $2,600 to $3,000... which moves away from my money saving idea but if I gain better long-term reliability it might be worth it. I have no emissions testing but prefer to be responsible to the environment and other drivers. Rough parts estimates below for the alphabet delete:

Stage II:
$450 DPF Removal (+$300 to add a cat)
$950 SCR Removal
$235 EGR Removal (race pipe install)
$1,000 Tune (open to recommendations here)

Am I missing anything? Are there cheaper but comparable options? I really don't care about more power.

Questions:
If I delete the DPF, would adding a catalytic converter help with the smell? What are the benefits to adding a cat?
Can I simply block off EGR for now with a block off kit? A cheap fix has appeal!

My Options:
  • Install EGR block-off and drive it
  • Replace the EGR Cooler and sell the car
  • Replace the EGR Cooler and keep the car
  • Alphabet delete and keep it
  • ???

Thoughts?
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      01-03-2018, 01:48 PM   #2
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Whoa, that estimate is way too high for tune and deletes. Gut your stock exhaust to remove SCR filter, buy a catted downpipe from whoever you want, buy a tune from DUDMD tuning, and buy a race pipe from Whitbread PErformance Innovations. Check out this thread for links. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1334283 Don't forget to join the Facebook group!
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      01-03-2018, 02:05 PM   #3
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My SCR metering valve is also broken... I assume that problem goes away with alphabet delete?
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      01-03-2018, 03:29 PM   #4
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Sorry to hear about your problems.

Yes, an alphabet delete will resolve your listed issues. You have more options than you think here. But a lot depends on how much leg work your willing to do to save money, and your location/available mechanics.

Basically you can diy and gut your SCR/DPF for the cost of your time and labor. Then purchase a tune for about 1K to make it run like new. You don't need an EGR race pipe unless you want to remove your EGR cooler. You can leave it in place with a broken valve, but you need to remove the cooler if its cracked an leaking coolant or exhaust.

Or you can purchase a Down Pipe, and full exhaust to remove the DPF and SCR. This is the less labor intensive solution and less chance you'll be exposed to hazardous materials (soot is a know carcinogenic). A Downpipe with DOC is about $675 (recommended to keep diesel stink down), and $950 for a full exhaust to remove the SCR.

Labor in the Houston area (I've shopped) is about $450-$800 for a down pipe install, and about $300-$400 for exhaust install/scr removal. Of course finding someone to do this labor can be tricky. A lot of companies wont do it as its illegal for on road cars (trust me I've seen that).

So if you're paying for parts and labor and tune you would be in the $3K range. But given the mileage on your car its only a matter of time before the DPF fails as well. The design life anecdotally is 150K miles. I've seen very few make it past 170K.

If you're keeping the car and not worried about resale and adding mods that will not increase reseale, then do it.

There are a lot of nice used 2014-15 328d's here for 20K and 535d's for 24-30K.
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      01-03-2018, 04:08 PM   #5
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Thanks for the feedback!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thecastle View Post
You don't need an EGR race pipe unless you want to remove your EGR cooler. You can leave it in place with a broken valve, but you need to remove the cooler if its cracked an leaking coolant or exhaust.
As-is, either the faulty EGR valve or SCR metering valve are putting the car into limp mode. I gotta do something to get it back on the road! Does a tune code these out?
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      01-03-2018, 05:40 PM   #6
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I had both these failures, EGR and SCR metering valve. However, neither one by itself triggered a limp mode.

At another time I was getting non-stop limp mode, car was non-drivable. Codes were 474C and 4530. Problem was a vacuum leaks, one leak was on hose to EGR valve actuator and another one at a hose for a turbo actuator. Problem was fixed by replacing the vacuum hoses.
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      01-04-2018, 06:39 AM   #7
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don't forget that you don't have to go all out on a tune... you can have the EGR and the DEF turned off and keep the tune factory. that by itself will only run you $500 DUDMD tuning!

that will get your car back on the road and save you at least $1500 to your original quote!!
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      01-04-2018, 08:52 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335stoner View Post
don't forget that you don't have to go all out on a tune... you can have the EGR and the DEF turned off and keep the tune factory. that by itself will only run you $500 DUDMD tuning!

that will get your car back on the road and save you at least $1500 to your original quote!!
I'm not sure how many have real success with this approach. Heard that a tune to keep stock but remove EGR may not work as advertised. The DDE wants to see functioning EGR before it initiates DPF regens.

For reliability on this platform, all deletes.

You can get this done for under $k easy. ~$1000 for downpipe and install. $125 for a shop to gut the SCR. ~$900 tune. Done.
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      01-04-2018, 08:57 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
You can get this done for under $k easy. ~$1000 for downpipe and install. $125 for a shop to gut the SCR. ~$900 tune. Done.
My EGR valve is broken. Assuming I get a tune, do I need to block this off, replace with race pipe, or leave it in place as-is?
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      01-04-2018, 09:11 AM   #10
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Current idea:
dudmd stage I tune $650
EGR race pipe $235
Downpipe (DPF delete) $450
$300 to add a cat to the downpipe?

If I go Stage I tune, can I leave the SCR hardware in place for now and gut/replace it later?

Will this roll coal? A black cloud after hard acceleration is not my style.
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      01-04-2018, 10:53 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornswoggler View Post
Current idea:
dudmd stage I tune $650
EGR race pipe $235
Downpipe (DPF delete) $450
$300 to add a cat to the downpipe?

If I go Stage I tune, can I leave the SCR hardware in place for now and gut/replace it later?

Will this roll coal? A black cloud after hard acceleration is not my style.
-a black cloud like a truck... No.. a little bit yes nothing to worry about

-you could skip the race pipe to save a few dollars for now

-the SCR will need to be gutted ASAP as it no longer has the DPF collecting the soot. depending on how much you drive as long as you don't get too pedal happy I would say you have less than 500 miles before a clogged SCR would become a worry.
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      01-04-2018, 11:15 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornswoggler View Post
My EGR valve is broken. Assuming I get a tune, do I need to block this off, replace with race pipe, or leave it in place as-is?
If the EGR valve has broken, and assuming your EGR Cooler is not cracked. You could disable the EGR valve with a tune, free egr mod, etc. You can opt to leave it in place, block it with blocking plates or remove it and install the race pipe. However, if your EGR cooler is cracked your going to want to remove the entire EGR system and install the race pipe. I've done this on my car, my EGR cooler cracked for the 4th time and I just removed it and installed the race pipe. I have a Stage II tune with EGR delete. It was about $700 for the tune/delete.

If the EGR vavle has stopped working it should only trigger an SES light not limp mode. If the EGR valve is disconnected from the wirining harness without a tune it will trigger a limp mode.
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      01-04-2018, 03:50 PM   #13
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Some of us don't know who is DUDMD is? Lay it on be please sir.
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      01-04-2018, 04:47 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_cuda View Post
Some of us don't know who is DUDMD is? Lay it on be please sir.
Dimitry on facebook. Tuner out of Seattle WA area. Seems like a pretty reputable shop.

https://www.dudmd.net/
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      01-05-2018, 07:30 AM   #15
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There is a $300 downpipe and $600 dp back exhaust for sale from one site. EGR race pipe is $120. There are more tuning options now that are a little more reasonable. Full exhaust, tune and EGR pipe for less than $1800. Install should be less than $500.
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      01-05-2018, 10:16 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thecastle View Post
If the EGR vavle has stopped working it should only trigger an SES light not limp mode. If the EGR valve is disconnected from the wirining harness without a tune it will trigger a limp mode.
This concerns me. I suspect my shop was just pulling codes and throwing parts at it.... at my expense of course! I suspect there is a deeper root cause or other issue that is putting me in engine malfunction mode. Very frustrating!

What is the best way to troubleshoot the Engine Malfunction (limp mode) issue? Would the dealership have better diag equipment and expertise over a local indy shop?

Plugging in my VIN at the BMW owner reimbursement site, my car would be covered by an EGR throttle valve repair reimbursement, but at 154k miles I am probably on my own.
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      01-05-2018, 11:42 AM   #17
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Do you have a complete list of fault codes?

I do not know if this is the best way to proceed but here is what I usually do:
Clear all codes and drive the car. Sometime, SES light turn ON right away. Read the code(s) and fix the problem. At other time, SES light only turn ON after few driving cycles. Read the codes and go from there.

I clear the code at first because I have seen before where a fault create multiple secondary codes which are unrelated to the real problem, making it hard to pinpoint which part is defective.

I have the Schwaben Scan Tool for BMW. This san tool allow me to see ghost codes and freeze frames. The freeze frames are the data that triggers the SES light. They are useful at determining the root cause of the problem. Like you, I do not like throwing parts at the problem.
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      01-05-2018, 01:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montr View Post

I have the Schwaben Scan Tool for BMW. This san tool allow me to see ghost codes and freeze frames. The freeze frames are the data that triggers the SES light. They are useful at determining the root cause of the problem. Like you, I do not like throwing parts at the problem.
I have an old peak reader that worked with my e36 and e46 but need to figure out if it works for e90. Would be nice to be able to program my own battery installations. Is Schwaben the recommendation around here?
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      01-05-2018, 01:17 PM   #19
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schwaben and foxwell nt-510

both are the exact tool different colors.. if I am not mistaken the schwaben is a rebranded foxwell
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      01-05-2018, 01:33 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335stoner View Post
schwaben and foxwell nt-510

both are the exact tool different colors.. if I am not mistaken the schwaben is a rebranded foxwell
Yes, Schwaben == Foxwell NT-510

I have the following tools. (Schwaben is the one I use mostly)
1. Schwaben (or NT-510)
2. INPA (harder to use but best for diagnostic. I have to drag a laptop and cable to the car)
3. Carly (not as useful for diagnostic, does not differentiate between real code and pending codes. No freeze frames.)
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      01-09-2018, 10:37 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornswoggler View Post
This concerns me. I suspect my shop was just pulling codes and throwing parts at it.... at my expense of course! I suspect there is a deeper root cause or other issue that is putting me in engine malfunction mode. Very frustrating!

What is the best way to troubleshoot the Engine Malfunction (limp mode) issue? Would the dealership have better diag equipment and expertise over a local indy shop?

Plugging in my VIN at the BMW owner reimbursement site, my car would be covered by an EGR throttle valve repair reimbursement, but at 154k miles I am probably on my own.
Yeah. I'll have to admit I've had to deal with some complicated emissions problems on this car. Just a quick background on my situation, I purchased my 2011 D in April 2015 as a manufacturers buy back due to emissions problems. After literally every emissions component being replaced multiple times, puma cases, the US BMW master tech being flown to Houston to diagnosis..... It was fixed, under warranty.

The problem with EGR faults it is usually symptomatic of a larger issue. You'll trigger an SES on the EGR for a ton of reasons. But you have to look at the specific error codes to begin to know what to look for. EGR codes can be triggered due to bad MAF, boost leaks, differential pressure sensors, CBU, etc., etc. I would typically get EGR flow plausiblability.

so the bottom line is, if you choose to fix the problem, you'll need someone who is very familiar BMW diesels.

The limp mode is more worrying. EGR issues will not trigger a limp, I used to live with EGR issues continuously ;-). Which why once the car was fixed, and my cooler cracked (again) I just modded and eliminated.
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      01-09-2018, 10:45 AM   #22
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Thanks guys! I'll be picking up a Schwaben to get down to the bottom of it.

I don't want to throw parts at it or ABC delete (for $thousands) and find out the issue was something simple.
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