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      05-29-2022, 06:58 PM   #23
dpaul
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Originally Posted by l8nit3 View Post
I have repaired the broken power transfer terminal , whoever still am showing 2A3F and 2A77 error codes and am in limp mode. (Both related to vvt)

So, doing some dumb Google searching I have found possible causes being:
-bad 40A orange fuse for VVT in engine bay Ebox
-bad blue VVT relay , also in engine bay Ebox

I have tested the 40A fuse and believe it's good, never used a DVM, however I get a 0.01 reading on the lowest possible continuity setting.

I'm unsure how to properly test the blue relay ( pn: 61.36-6915327/01), however when doing the same as I would with a fuse I get the following:

87 + 87 : 0.00
Either 87 + 30 or 85: no change on DVM
85 + 30: 0.095

All of which I think are expect values by reading the little diagram on the box.

Are there any other thoughts or suggestions for further diagnostics before I start to think I fried something in my VVT system somewhere, and have to start learning those wiring diagrams lol
Without providing a 12v supply to the relay, you cannot fully test it.

There is no way around it; you have to learn about the wiring diagrams - the relevant circuits provided below:

You can see that fuse F7 (40A) provides power to the VVT relay K6319.
If it's good, you should find 12 volts at pin 6 of connector X6319 (Terminal 30 of the relay, I think), whether ignition is on or off.

When the ignition is on (key on, engine off), the DME should ground pin 4 (relay Terminal 85 I think) at the connector X6319 energizing the coil - you should hear a click from the relay.

Then you should find 12 volts at pin 2 (Terminal 87 of the relay, definitely). If you do, that part of the circuit is OK.

Start with that.
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Last edited by dpaul; 05-29-2022 at 07:04 PM..
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      05-30-2022, 01:02 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpaul View Post
Without providing a 12v supply to the relay, you cannot fully test it.

There is no way around it; you have to learn about the wiring diagrams - the relevant circuits provided below:

You can see that fuse F7 (40A) provides power to the VVT relay K6319.
If it's good, you should find 12 volts at pin 6 of connector X6319 (Terminal 30 of the relay, I think), whether ignition is on or off.

When the ignition is on (key on, engine off), the DME should ground pin 4 (relay Terminal 85 I think) at the connector X6319 energizing the coil - you should hear a click from the relay.

Then you should find 12 volts at pin 2 (Terminal 87 of the relay, definitely). If you do, that part of the circuit is OK.

Start with that.
Thank you for including the diagrams.

Yes, it would seem that the relay works fine. I have tested following this video with a car battery as my 12v source.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gIZ0weS7iU

From further searching, it would seem nearly all forum threads and youtube videos I can find relating to my specific error codes (2A3F, 2A77) end with: (in descending order of likelihood of being the issue)

-Eccentric shaft sensor (most likely, but i hope not)
-Actuator motor
-Burnt internal fuse in DME controlling VVT (I hope not)
-VVT adaptions incorrect due to bad programming or not clearing after update. (unlikely, but my honest hope lol)

Is there further diagnostics I can do to see which it may be? Or , am I even on the right track with those?

When viewing the VVT and comparing the actual from the 'sensed' angles, this is what i receive (picture attached) which makes me think the sensor is way out of wack.

I feel as though I may be getting close to having my pride and joy running again, but not sure of the next step to take.... and dont want to break something and go backwards.

again, this is all google knowledge so may not even apply to my situation.
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Last edited by l8nit3; 05-31-2022 at 09:09 AM..
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      05-31-2022, 10:43 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l8nit3 View Post
Thank you for including the diagrams.

Yes, it would seem that the relay works fine. I have tested following this video with a car battery as my 12v source.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gIZ0weS7iU

From further searching, it would seem nearly all forum threads and youtube videos I can find relating to my specific error codes (2A3F, 2A77) end with: (in descending order of likelihood of being the issue)

-Eccentric shaft sensor (most likely, but i hope not)
-Actuator motor
-Burnt internal fuse in DME controlling VVT (I hope not)
-VVT adaptions incorrect due to bad programming or not clearing after update. (unlikely, but my honest hope lol)

Is there further diagnostics I can do to see which it may be? Or , am I even on the right track with those?

When viewing the VVT and comparing the actual from the 'sensed' angles, this is what i receive (picture attached) which makes me think the sensor is way out of wack.

I feel as though I may be getting close to having my pride and joy running again, but not sure of the next step to take.... and dont want to break something and go backwards.

again, this is all google knowledge so may not even apply to my situation.
As you've discovered ,you can use INPA to command specific angles. It's unclear from your description what you commanded and what the output actually was, or what changed and what didn't. Regardless, only certain outcomes allow you to discriminate between sensor, actuator and power supply.

Simple 90% accurate test for actuator - pull it and put 12v on it. It should spin. Reverse polarity, it will spin the other direction. If it fails to spin or spins but makes grinding or screeching noises, it's bad. However, AFAIK occasionally it will spin without noise but just not have enough power to do the job. Worry about that later. This is your most likely explanation.

Simple 90% accurate test for eccentric shaft sensor - pull it and look for oil. Any oil on pins, it's bad. The gasket has failed and oil destroys the sensor. If I had to bet, I'd bet against this being the primary issue.

Could a programming failure have affected operation? - probably not. Almost any programming error would leave the DME stuck in programming mode and your car would not start. Could ISTA-P have chosen a bad ZUSB for you? Yes, possible although again not probable.

However, you did mention that WinKFP for some reason could not select a ZUSB to update to. Very unclear to me how ISTA-P could if WinKFP could not - they analyze the same data and consult the same tables. IF YOU HAVE THE LIST OF ORIGINAL ZUSBs you allude to in your first post, I can quickly determine what the proper update version should be. Then, if you are worried, you can re-flash with WinKFP and feel confident about the result.

Final note: there are other possibilities - error codes are occasionally red herrings and I've heard that VANOS irregularities can give rise to Valvetronic codes. Check to make sure the 'cage' is in place on the oil filter cap and that the little O-ring at the tip of the cage is in place.
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      05-31-2022, 11:25 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpaul View Post
As you've discovered ,you can use INPA to command specific angles. It's unclear from your description what you commanded and what the output actually was, or what changed and what didn't. Regardless, only certain outcomes allow you to discriminate between sensor, actuator and power supply.

Simple 90% accurate test for actuator - pull it and put 12v on it. It should spin. Reverse polarity, it will spin the other direction. If it fails to spin or spins but makes grinding or screeching noises, it's bad. However, AFAIK occasionally it will spin without noise but just not have enough power to do the job. Worry about that later. This is your most likely explanation.

Simple 90% accurate test for eccentric shaft sensor - pull it and look for oil. Any oil on pins, it's bad. The gasket has failed and oil destroys the sensor. If I had to bet, I'd bet against this being the primary issue.

Could a programming failure have affected operation? - probably not. Almost any programming error would leave the DME stuck in programming mode and your car would not start. Could ISTA-P have chosen a bad ZUSB for you? Yes, possible although again not probable.

However, you did mention that WinKFP for some reason could not select a ZUSB to update to. Very unclear to me how ISTA-P could if WinKFP could not - they analyze the same data and consult the same tables. IF YOU HAVE THE LIST OF ORIGINAL ZUSBs you allude to in your first post, I can quickly determine what the proper update version should be. Then, if you are worried, you can re-flash with WinKFP and feel confident about the result.

Final note: there are other possibilities - error codes are occasionally red herrings and I've heard that VANOS irregularities can give rise to Valvetronic codes. Check to make sure the 'cage' is in place on the oil filter cap and that the little O-ring at the tip of the cage is in place.
Yes, i absolutely have the UIF or zusb list and will attach it below.

By your instructions, am I correct in saying your leaning more towards the actuator motor itself and not the sensor being the issue? I will check for the oil seepage to be sure of course.

When using INPA (acc on , engine off) I tried the first 2 angles, 0% and i think 50%. I saw no change, however may have done the test completely wrong. Once the 2 suggested tests are completed I will hook up INPA again and take screenshots of the change (or lack of) at each angle command.

As for the actuator motor test, should i have a spare gasket on hand for it before pulling it to test? Or is it generally safe to reuse if not torn or broken in some way?
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      05-31-2022, 07:54 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l8nit3 View Post
Yes, i absolutely have the UIF or zusb list and will attach it below.

By your instructions, am I correct in saying your leaning more towards the actuator motor itself and not the sensor being the issue? I will check for the oil seepage to be sure of course.

When using INPA (acc on , engine off) I tried the first 2 angles, 0% and i think 50%. I saw no change, however may have done the test completely wrong. Once the 2 suggested tests are completed I will hook up INPA again and take screenshots of the change (or lack of) at each angle command.

As for the actuator motor test, should i have a spare gasket on hand for it before pulling it to test? Or is it generally safe to reuse if not torn or broken in some way?
Is that the original list or the list after you did the ISTAP update?
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      05-31-2022, 08:44 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpaul View Post
Is that the original list or the list after you did the ISTAP update?
That would be the list after I updated with ISTAP. below is the list before ,not including any 'radio' based ones as I had my aftermarket head unit installed at the time.

Also, I have done the testing recommended, and am now more worried then ever as both things seem to test out fine.

There is no oil in the eccentric shaft sensor connection, and the actuator motor seems to work perfectly fine when hooked to a 12v source (both ways).

I assume this would likely mean my issue is within the DME itself, or somewhere in the wiring
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      05-31-2022, 09:38 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l8nit3 View Post
That would be the list after I updated with ISTAP. below is the list before ,not including any 'radio' based ones as I had my aftermarket head unit installed at the time.

Also, I have done the testing recommended, and am now more worried then ever as both things seem to test out fine.

There is no oil in the eccentric shaft sensor connection, and the actuator motor seems to work perfectly fine when hooked to a 12v source (both ways).

I assume this would likely mean my issue is within the DME itself, or somewhere in the wiring
OK, 8619538 is the correct ZUSB update from 7634824 for your vehicle so we do not need to worry about that.

I'd worry about the wiring/connectors/pins, not so much a bad DME (although that can happen) . You've verified that the fuse is good and that the relay is good but you haven't verified that 12v appears at pins 1/2 of DME connector X60007 (first drawing below) with key on, engine off. The easiest way to do that is with insulation piercing probes (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1). You should also visually verify that pins 1 and 2 on the DME (connector X60007) are not bent, corroded or pushed in; same for X60004 pins 3,4,5,6 (second drawing below)
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      06-01-2022, 06:18 AM   #30
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The tips you have suggested have been ordered. Wow lol. By the time I'm done here I 'm going to have a whole new set of skills

While I wait on the shipping (Thursday), after removing and reseating the accentuator motor, I now have a 3rd fault code popping up.

0x23A9 - I believe this is simply just about accentuator shaft positioning being incorrect, as I may not have put it back exactly at the right angle. I did the 'turn clockwise with 4mm hex until resistance, then undo all bolts, then turn counter-clockwise until it pops out'. However may have over or under rotated the motor on removal or re-installation (I assume thats the only real cause here)

Now, I have done a delete and re-learn of the VVT stops with INPA, and although it claims it ran successfully , there is no difference.

Is there somewhere I can test with my current DVM to see if the signals (forward, backward) are actually being sent and received? I watched a video that involved a diagnosing light of sorts to verify that the signal at least made it to the VVT motor, however not quite sure how to complete the test.

Also, does the lack of any change after learning the stops maybe allude to a cause for my initial 2 codes?

Last edited by l8nit3; 06-03-2022 at 09:15 PM..
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      06-03-2022, 06:22 AM   #31
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Still waiting on amazon to ship out those insulation piercing tips for the DVM, hoever its been raining so I haven been able to continue yet.

This evening I will be removing the actuator motor once more and this time running the stops command with the actuator out and visible. My goal is to be able to see if the forward/backward commands are actually able to make it to the motor and that Im able to see it spin.

My hope with this is to rule out any wiring issues such as a short that may be stopping the signal all together.

Hopefully it has the added benefit of me being able to re-install the VVT actuator motor correctly and get rid of my 2A39 error that popped up with the last bit of diagnostics.

<Update>
After removing and reseating the actuator motor, I have managed to get rid of the newest code mentioned above (2A39 - Valvetronic, adjustment range).
Leaving only the two original 2A3F 2A77.

When trying to run the 're-learn' procedure with the actuator motor removed (but still plugged in) in INPA, it claims to complete successfully, however the motor never moves.

Just to be 100% sure I re-pulled the k6319 relay and double checked it , I definitely hear an audible click when applying 12v power, and a continuity 'beep' from my DVM on the newly opened circuit - as per this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ire7vyDqelg

Sorry for the redundancy, but I have never done any of the diagnosis steps before, and just want to be sure ive done each correctly.

Current List for any others who find the thread:
-VVT orange 40A Fuse - check
-Sky Blue VVT Relay -Check
-Delete old adaptations in INPA - Check
-Relearn VVT stops procedure - (both through INPA, and the 'wait on acc' method) - Check
-Use INPA to manually set actuator to 10, 45, and 90% - NO change in displayed values, at all! - Check
-Remove ESS connection (outside valve cover) and check for any oil or cracking - Check
-Remove actuator and test via 12V to ensure both forward and backward movement - Check
-Attempt to run 'learn' commands with actuator connected but removed to view movement, NO MOVEMENT! - Check
-Test 12v at DME pins with ACC on - Awaiting proper tools from amazon

Checking amazon, my insulation piercing tips wont be in until next week. Is there any other area I could be testing to look for faults until then?

You mentioned each test for the two components were 90% accurate, what about the remining 10% is there a chance my sensor is still buggered up even though it is quite clean? According to those with a Bentley manual (not me lol) the code pertains specifically to the sensor.
2A37 - VVT guiding sensor Plausibility (bank 1)

Last edited by l8nit3; 06-04-2022 at 10:51 AM..
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      06-05-2022, 08:57 AM   #32
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Doing more ISTA+ diagram reading, and forum searching I've come to (hopefully) a potential cause.

The power lead/transfer point I broke initially was the B+ for the VVT system (left, smaller cable). This leads to the distribution block with nothing in between. When broken, I was doing my ISTAP updates, and I'm wondering if a power surge may have fried the F102 fuse in (I think) X1984.

Since everything ran cleanly before the terminal break/update, and since I am still waiting on amazon for those parts, I am going to attempt to pick up a test power distributor box from work for a quick swap to see if there is any change at all.

Unless anyone knows if I am just able to remove it, open it , and test the one fuse itself Or if I have completely misread the diagrams in INST+.
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      06-05-2022, 08:21 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l8nit3 View Post
Doing more ISTA+ diagram reading, and forum searching I've come to (hopefully) a potential cause.

The power lead/transfer point I broke initially was the B+ for the VVT system (left, smaller cable). This leads to the distribution block with nothing in between. When broken, I was doing my ISTAP updates, and I'm wondering if a power surge may have fried the F102 fuse in (I think) X1984.

Since everything ran cleanly before the terminal break/update, and since I am still waiting on amazon for those parts, I am going to attempt to pick up a test power distributor box from work for a quick swap to see if there is any change at all.

Unless anyone knows if I am just able to remove it, open it , and test the one fuse itself Or if I have completely misread the diagrams in INST+.
You can pull the connector from the distribution box and put your DVM probe directly up in there. You don't need to disassemble the box. If you see 12v, that's not the problem.

Or you can pull F07 at the JBE and put your DVM probe directly into one or the other of the contacts. You should see 12v at one or the other.
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      06-06-2022, 02:20 PM   #34
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Ok great! This may be a stupid question, but I'd rather ask a dumb question then break more things:
where am i putting the ground when testing? For the distribution box and the DME both?
My insulation piercing tips are in so i can do all the testing at once.
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      06-06-2022, 03:03 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by l8nit3 View Post
Ok great! This may be a stupid question, but I'd rather ask a dumb question then break more things:
where am i putting the ground when testing? For the distribution box and the DME both?
My insulation piercing tips are in so i can do all the testing at once.
ground to chassis.

In the engine compartment you can use the engine block (assuming the ground strap is ok); near the battery distribution box you can use the negative battery terminal (although the very slight resistance of the IBS will be interposed). Or where any wire appears to be attached to the chassis.
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      06-07-2022, 05:13 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpaul View Post
ground to chassis.

In the engine compartment you can use the engine block (assuming the ground strap is ok); near the battery distribution box you can use the negative battery terminal (although the very slight resistance of the IBS will be interposed). Or where any wire appears to be attached to the chassis.
So I believe I may have found my issue! No matter how I test the power distribution box on top of the battery, I am only getting 4.28V on the 'secondary' B+ lead. (the one I had broken previously).

So, I am hoping and praying that this may finally be the end of my search!

I will be picking up a used distribution box and testing it and will update once done. Once again, I have to thank you for guiding me through all of this and being patient with my minimal (read zero) knowledge on any of these subjects.


<Update>
IT WORKS! It would seem that my two issues were (initially) the broken b+ power lead from the battery (small one on the left, leaving battery compartment), followed by a burnt out 100A fuse on the distribution box that site on top of the battery!

DPaul, without your guidance I would still have an incredibly expensive paper weight in my driveway. I thank you for you time, patience and kindness throughout.

For anyone who finds this thread with issues dealing with the ESS, VVT voltage, B+ power issues, relay and fuse issues, and anything else... please learn from my stupidity

Last edited by l8nit3; 06-08-2022 at 09:28 PM..
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