[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by M3to335

Pad Update:

Performance Friction got back to me and said they dont have the demand for a 335 specific pad. Porterfield also got back to me and amazingly enough said they can take an existing pad and modify the backing plate to work with the 335. The cost is stupid high though if you ask me. Christ, its a BRAKE PAD not the fuselage to the space shuttle. Are they usually this high when directly from Perf. Frict?

The following email response is in regards to PF-01...



I guess Cool Carbon is my only choice

I just ordered two more sets ~$190/set for front and rears.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

The brake system consists of more than just pads.

Busting inner piston seals, popping brake lines, bracket bolts that worked their way loose....those all can cause catastrophic loss of braking ability. BTDT on more than a few of the above. On day 31, I checked and found that my front right caliper bolt vibrated itself loose and was two threads away from coming off. Good thing I found it in the paddock and not in the heavy braking zone.

Moreover, I am not sure if the BMW system has "ice mode" but here's an example of what happens when you run out of pad on another ABS equipped car:

http://www.protege5.com/forum/showth...hp?t=123684925

I've always check my brakes pre/post track days. I prefer to run new brake pads for each event, a very cheap insurance policy when considering the potential costs associated with brake failure.

[leftcoastman]

Call Zeckhausen. I bought some Porterfields from him for pretty cheap.

[M3to335]

Cool, Ive got a few questions for you

1) whats "cheap"
2) which ones did you get? http://porterfield-brakes.com/manufa...php?manufId=13
3) How'd they perform
4) How'd they treat your rotors
5) OK for daily driving, or good to swap on track days?

Thanks!

[leftcoastman]

I talked about the R4 prior. I wouldn't use em again since I cause them to disintegrate pretty quickly, but they are a good starting race pad.

$190 a set, I recall. AP918 was the front shape.

Not streetable as they're noisy and dusty as hell. Reasonably nice to rotors.

[kenneth]

Noob question here! When you guys say your pads get worn in 1 or 2 track days, that's how much track time per day?

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by kenneth

Noob question here! When you guys say your pads get worn in 1 or 2 track days, that's how much track time per day?

3.5-4 hours a day for the groups I run with. I think 2.5-3 hours is more typical.

[kenneth]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

3.5-4 hours a day for the groups I run with. I think 2.5-3 hours is more typical.

For us, we consider ourselves lucky if we get 2 hours of HPDE seat time per day with BMWCCA or Audi events, so that explains it. The average is somewhere between 1.4-2 hours

There is a way I can get up to 4 hours, but it is not HPDE, it is tracking days with a club I know, but the instructor ratio is 1/3 and most time I'll need to be on my own. Wasn't ready for that last year, maybe this year. 2 groups alternating every 30 minutes.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by kenneth

For us, we consider ourselves lucky if we get 2 hours of HPDE seat time per day with BMWCCA or Audi events, so that explains it. The average is somewhere between 1.4-2 hours

There is a way I can get up to 4 hours, but it is not HPDE, it is tracking days with a club I know, but the instructor ratio is 1/3 and most time I'll need to be on my own. Wasn't ready for that last year, maybe this year. 2 groups alternating every 30 minutes.

Find a new group that provides more track time. The more track time.. the more you learn. Only so much can be achieved through classroom instruction and books.

[M3to335]

Kenneth, your not near VA are you? We've frequently got events with 4hrs of seat time.

[kenneth]

With that amount of seat time (4 hours), I'd be in the advanced group by now! Unfortunately, 2 hours is about the most you can get in HPDE's. So 3 student groups (BMWCCA: beginner, intermediate and advanced, or Audi is Green, Yellow and Red) + 1 instructor group, makes 4 groups of 2 hours = 8 hours per track day.

I have been invited to tracking with a group who partners with the Viper club where you have only 2 run groups alternating. That's the only way I can think of, of doing 4 hours per day. Likely though 4 hours on track is pretty demanding concentration wise. Instructor ratio is 1/3, so mostly you are on your own. I will give it a try this coming season, and see if I can get comfortable solo.

I am in beautiful Quebec, Canada, Montreal actually, just North of New York, so perhaps a little far from Virginia....

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by M3to335

Nick, I think it would be pretty hard to wear down another 3~4mm on these unless I drove around everywhere slamming on the brakes Dont know if the other people on the road would appreciate that.

Find a secondary road with a lot of corners in succession and hammer down If you get enough heat into the brakes to overheat the pads you can really wear them down quickly

[M3to335]

Bubbles, my Cool Carbon pads came in last week. I'm just waiting for it to get a bit warmer before putting them on. I may have already asked this (but forgot)... any tips on bedding them? Or is it the typical routine with any new set of pads?

Thanks!

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by M3to335

Bubbles, my Cool Carbon pads came in last week. I'm just waiting for it to get a bit warmer before putting them on. I may have already asked this (but forgot)... any tips on bedding them? Or is it the typical routine with any new set of pads?

Thanks!

File the edges down a bit to match the current grooves in the rotors. Use a lot of breakquiet. I bed my brakes in my second lap at the track worked like a charm:>

[Orb]

Originally Posted by M3to335

Bubbles, my Cool Carbon pads came in last week. I'm just waiting for it to get a bit warmer before putting them on. I may have already asked this (but forgot)... any tips on bedding them? Or is it the typical routine with any new set of pads?

Thanks!

Drive around normally and bed them in for few days without be to aggressive but not passive either. You want to the old pad material to wear off and slowly transfer the new material to the rotor. This will ensure you don’t smear the old pad material when you do the bedding operation which migh cause a shudder. The instructions are in the box and the pads will not work well unless you follow them. Do bring the rotor up to temp with moderate repeated braking then follow the procedure. Once they sit over night after bedding they will be a lot stronger.

As bubble said get a good brake quiet compound on the back on the pads. The density is high with these pads so you need it. If you did everything right the pads shouldn’t make a sound.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Orb

You want to the old pad material to wear off and slowly transfer the new material to the rotor

Or if you are impatient borrow a set of hawk blue pads and put them on the car. hawk blue when they are cold are pretty much portable brake lathes. couple of hard stops will scour the old material of the pad. just make sure not to make hard stops after warming up the pads or else you will start to transfer some of the hawk blue pad material

[wilkoal]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

File the edges down a bit to match the current grooves in the rotors. Use a lot of breakquiet. I bed my brakes in my second lap at the track worked like a charm:>

Bubbles...pls side question:
are Cool carbon pads designed to let you fit the OEM sensor? if so, can the old sensor detached by OEM pad and fitted to the Cool carbon or a new sensor is needed?

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by Orb

Drive around normally and bed them in for few days without be to aggressive but not passive either. You want to the old pad material to wear off and slowly transfer the new material to the rotor. This will ensure you don’t smear the old pad material when you do the bedding operation which migh cause a shudder. The instructions are in the box and the pads will not work well unless you follow them. Do bring the rotor up to temp with moderate repeated braking then follow the procedure. Once they sit over night after bedding they will be a lot stronger.

As bubble said get a good brake quiet compound on the back on the pads. The density is high with these pads so you need it. If you did everything right the pads shouldn’t make a sound.

I ran the new pads for a week. The pads performed well on the street with no noise or shudder. I preformed the bedding procedure the day before the track day to confirm proper bedding. Well, everything felt great but on lap 2, first session, I suddenly experienced a good bit of shudder in a hot braking zone. I over-braked the next corner (just in case) and the shudder decreased, two more over-brake corners and the shudder disappeared. Second session after a brief cool down, the brakes worked perfect. So I think my initial bedding failed to complete the job. Most likely user error on my part.
I visited my indy shop and the owner/ex-BMW master tech, who was against the cool carbons pads, now wants their information for the BMWs he works on. He was shocked to see that I was running the pads on the street with no noise. In fact, he put my car on the lift to confirm the pads were not eating up my rotors.

Originally Posted by wilkoal

Bubbles...pls side question:
are Cool carbon pads designed to let you fit the OEM sensor? if so, can the old sensor detached by OEM pad and fitted to the Cool carbon or a new sensor is needed?

The brake sensor will plug right in, just be careful not to lose that copper/brass clip that comes with the sensor. It seems to fall off very easily and can be difficult to find because of its size.

I would remove the clip and ziptie the sensor if you plan on swapping pads. No need to burn thru a $20 sensor for no reason.

[leftcoastman]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

I would remove the clip and ziptie the sensor if you plan on swapping pads. No need to burn thru a $20 sensor for no reason.

+1

If you're checking/swapping your pads before every track event, you shouldn't need the stinkin' sensor anyways. I zip tie the sucker up and don't worry about it.

[M3to335]

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

+1

If you're checking/swapping your pads before every track event, you shouldn't need the stinkin' sensor anyways. I zip tie the sucker up and don't worry about it.

Im not planning on swapping back and forth. My stockers are shot so these are now going to be my DD's. Think I should just keep the sensor hooked up, or say screw it?

Originally Posted by Bubbles

File the edges down a bit to match the current grooves in the rotors. Use a lot of breakquiet. I bed my brakes in my second lap at the track worked like a charm:>

Are you making reference to matching the contact patch for the old pads? Are these wider or something? Do you use a hand file or bench grinder?

So Im getting some brake kleen and some of that anti-squeel from the autoparts store in a minute so I can knock this out today. Looks like the bedding proceedure is pretty standard from what I've done in the past.

• Perform a series of 10-12 partial stops from 70mph to 20mph with the first 3 under moderate braking, increasing to 75% to 90% of full braking during these series of stops.
  
• Performance should increase somewhat during this process and fall off towards the end of this cycle.
  
• Allow the brakes to cool by driving at higher allowable speeds and with little if any braking, if possible.
  
• Repeat the above sequence, including the cooling section.

The only thing thats out of the ordinary to me is the fact that they want you to do the process twice. They know better than I do

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by M3to335

Im not planning on swapping back and forth. My stockers are shot so these are now going to be my DD's. Think I should just keep the sensor hooked up, or say screw it?



Are you making reference to matching the contact patch for the old pads? Are these wider or something? Do you use a hand file or bench grinder?

So Im getting some brake kleen and some of that anti-squeel from the autoparts store in a minute so I can knock this out today. Looks like the bedding proceedure is pretty standard from what I've done in the past.

• Perform a series of 10-12 partial stops from 70mph to 20mph with the first 3 under moderate braking, increasing to 75% to 90% of full braking during these series of stops.
• Performance should increase somewhat during this process and fall off towards the end of this cycle.
• Allow the brakes to cool by driving at higher allowable speeds and with little if any braking, if possible.
• Repeat the above sequence, including the cooling section.

The only thing thats out of the ordinary to me is the fact that they want you to do the process twice. They know better than I do

Just use a hand file. I file the edges if my rotors are grooved (front was, but back rotors were relatively new).

[M3to335]

Here's a little feedback from todays install.

I'm no novice when it comes to working on cars...far from it. As far as simple work is concerned, I've done many MANY brake pad swaps including my old E46 M3 and 325i. This car was a pain in my ass.

The front bolts were so tight I had to use a breaker bar and a PIPE to get them free. The drivers front took nearly an hour alone!!! Also, just for anyone who is buying these pads, it helps to bend the metal tabs with some pliers because they refused to fit into to caliiper piston. (small issue).

My initial response to these pads is just so-so. I did the proper bedding proceedure and they dont "appear" to have any more bite than the stock pads. It could be in my head, I dont know for certain until I hit the track Dust is certainly reduced so thats good for around town. Also, no squeel is evident.

On a side note; Since day one I never really noticed how bad the initlal bite was on my stock pads until I started driving our 135. You just touch the pedal and it begins to break. My 335 seems to take quite a bit more squishy pedal travel before bites. Is this typical? Honestly I've never driven any other 335....just my wifes 1. The new pads exhibit the same thing.

Think its just a matter of bleeding it?