[mfish123]

I know this topic has been beaten to death but here we go again. I want advice on the best upgraded front speaker / underseat sub combo to use within a reasonable budget while still having decent midbass response. I have the stock Hifi system in my 335i sedan.

I have an MS- 8 and an old school 4 channel Eclipse amp that puts out 110 RMS x 4 @ 2ohms / 55 RMS x 4 @ 4 ohms to work with.

With a 6 month old son trunk subs are really not an option for me. So my biggest constraint is utilizing the stock underseat locations and stock 4" door locations to try to get a decent sub bass, bass, and mid bass compromise.

I plan use the MS-8 for all calibration and processing and to power an added JBL center channel and stock rears off it.

I will use my 4 channel amp to power upgraded front speakers and upgraded underseat subs.

It sounds like the only thing out there that has decent underseat sub bass perfomance are the SWS-8xi (2 ohms to extract the full 110 watts out of my Eclipse amp). I know they fall short on midbass. So if I go with them I have to get 4 inchers for the doors with the best midbass performance possible out of a 4 incher, to help compensate. Or are there any other underseat subs that equal the sws-8xi sub bass performance with better midbass?

If stick with sws-8xi for under the seats would going with DLS R4's in the door be able to play strong down to about 150 hz so I don't get a midbass gap. Or is there something else in a comparable price range that may be a better option.

I'm open to any suggestions. If DLS R4 / sws-8xi is a decent combo then don't be afraid to tell me that. Budget is a concern and if there are other options that are double or triple the cost to get an extra 10% - 20% improvement that would not be enough of a cost / benefit for me.

Thanks in advance!

[Quasimodem]

I made fiberglass speaker pods with CDT ES-06 mids.

I need to add some acousti-stuff, enclose the binding posts, and paint them (probably plasti-dip), but other than that they sound fantastic.

[mfish123]

Thanks for the suggestion. Definitely if we had something closer to a 6.5" in the doors it alleviates this issue. I know my constraints are not in line with my goals but I'm looking to do the best I can with both the stock 4" door locations and stock underseat woofer locations.

[Quasimodem]

Originally Posted by mfish123

Thanks for the suggestion. Definitely if we had something closer to a 6.5" in the doors it alleviates this issue. I know my constraints are not in line with my goals but I'm looking to do the best I can with both the stock 4" door locations and stock underseat woofer locations.

I just inherited (well friend moved out of the country and wants me to sell her car) a Jetta and it made me cry when I saw the doors look like they have room for 6.5 inch speakers. Now I am sure they wouldn't sound a good as the fully enclosed speaker pods like I made....

[kaigoss69]

The mids with the best midbass that I have heard so far from the door stock locations are the Morel Hybrid Ovations. I think they can play 100hz with ease without sounding strained.

[mfish123]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

The mids with the best midbass that I have heard so far from the door stock locations are the Morel Hybrid Ovations. I think they can play 100hz with ease without sounding strained.

Thanks for chiming in Kaigoss69. I know you're one of the resident experts. Price is a concern and I can give up a little performance to keep the piece down. Are there any other ones with almost as strong mid bass for a more reasonable price?

[kaigoss69]

Originally Posted by mfish123

Thanks for chiming in Kaigoss69. I know you're one of the resident experts. Price is a concern and I can give up a little performance to keep the piece down. Are there any other ones with almost as strong mid bass for a more reasonable price?

It would only be speculation! I can tell you though that good mid bass must at least partially come from the underseats, it cannot come from the 4" mids alone. I would have some doubts about the DLS R4s because of the way they have to be mounted. The #1 prerequisite for decent mid bass is a solid mount to the door panel with no air leaks and some damping will help as well.

[bmw325i]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

The mids with the best midbass that I have heard so far from the door stock locations are the Morel Hybrid Ovations. I think they can play 100hz with ease without sounding strained.

I think the Morel Hybrid Ovations and Jehnerts are a good combo. The Morels play low enough and the Jehnerts play high enough that you don't need a 6.5" to fill the gap.

The Jehnert 3 way kit is probably a good compromise for those on a smaller budget.

[mfish123]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

It would only be speculation! I can tell you though that good mid bass must at least partially come from the underseats, it cannot come from the 4" mids alone. I would have some doubts about the DLS R4s because of the way they have to be mounted. The #1 prerequisite for decent mid bass is a solid mount to the door panel with no air leaks and some damping will help as well.

Very true and again thanks for the insight. A lot has to do with the install. I want to buy the right equipment and install it properly once, hence me seeking advice here. Can you recommend another set of 4" components that are more reasonably priced that have decent midbass? Please see below for relevant info to this question.

Also, my new plan, which is relevant, is to add a 10" dedicated corner mounted sub in the trunk. (I alreayd have a JL audio 10w3v3 and a rockford amp that can give it up to 500 watts RMS @ 4 ohms). The custom corner box in a E90 sedan, doesn't take up much space - I didn't realize what a small footprint they have until now.

Then I can have the trunk sub do the heavy lifting and handle everything under about 60 hz. If I then give the OEM Hifi underseat 8's up to 110 watts RMS bandpassed from 60hz - somewhere between 150 hz to 200 hz then they should provide pretty decent midbass, right? I'm thinking more power, Ms-8 optimization, and alleviating them from low frequency duty should help a good bit. Then it shouldn't be as critical to have 4" in the doors with the absolute best midbass possible (I can cross the doors closer to 200 hz).

Does that sound reasonable with cost being a concern and me having a lot of equipment from my previous car? If I go down the road of also upgrading the underseat drivers with a mid bass oriented driver they all pretty much come in 4 ohms meaning I'd really need a different amp for them than what I have. Just not sure another $500+ to amp and upgrade the underseat mid bass is good bang for the buck if I can now have a dedicated sub do the heavy low frequency lifting and give the OEM Hifi underseats more band passed power.

[mfish123]

Originally Posted by bmw325i

I think the Morel Hybrid Ovations and Jehnerts are a good combo. The Morels play low enough and the Jehnerts play high enough that you don't need a 6.5" to fill the gap.

The Jehnert 3 way kit is probably a good compromise for those on a smaller budget.

Can you please tell me the exact model number of the Jenhert 3 way kit? Is this some kind of package that provides the Jehnert XE 200 under the seats, a 4" for the doors, tweeter and crossover? Is it this one?: http://www.jehnert.de/gesamtkatalog/...tem?lang=en_us

If you see my above post and my change of plans if Jenhert makes a 2 way 4" component kti with the drivers you mentioned maybe this would be a good option given my budget. Looks like they sell the 4"'s and tweeters separately but not as a kit.

[thinset]

Skip the 10" in the rear and have MusicarNW modify your stock underseat enclosures and add the German Maestro SWF 8012 HE in them. This can all be purchased directly from them, basically plug and play as far as work under the seat. Mine are crossed over at 200hz, pretty amazing considering the range of sound they are playing. You'll have plenty of power from your Eclipse amp, I'm only feeding mine 70w each and they surprise everyone that has been in the car. Everyone looks in the rear for a sub.

http://www.german-maestro.de/EN/swf8012he.htm

Morel, HAT, any 4" midrange is going to struggle getting lower than 200hz without clipping at higher volumes.

Your biggest challenge will be getting any work out of MusicarNW due to the current backlog and transition to a new space.

click to see what the underseat install comprises : http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ight=musicarnw

You could do it yourself, but it will be a LOT of fabbing that is already highly thought through, ie trim rings and spacers for the carpet...that are STUNNING in person.

[bmw325i]

Originally Posted by mfish123

Can you please tell me the exact model number of the Jenhert 3 way kit? Is this some kind of package that provides the Jehnert XE 200 under the seats, a 4" for the doors, tweeter and crossover? Is it this one?: http://www.jehnert.de/gesamtkatalog/...tem?lang=en_us

If you see my above post and my change of plans if Jenhert makes a 2 way 4" component kti with the drivers you mentioned maybe this would be a good option given my budget. Looks like they sell the 4"'s and tweeters separately but not as a kit.

Yes that is the one. Call or email Unexpected Creations.
http://unexpectedcreations.com

If you were wanting to get a new amp I'd recommend the pdx v9 for both the sub and front speakers. It is 100 watts RMS x 4 and 500 watts RMS x 1 at 2 or 4 ohms.
http://www.amazon.com/Alpine-PDX-V9-...productDetails

I wouldn't reccomend the MS8, but that is just my opinion. I had one for a while and I think it sounds better without. I am saving up for the Alpine H800 processor.

You'll also need Technic's harness and the connectors for the underseats and door speakers
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...9&postcount=19

[mfish123]

Originally Posted by thinset

Skip the 10" in the rear and have MusicarNW modify your stock underseat enclosures and add the German Maestro SWF 8012 HE in them. This can all be purchased directly from them, basically plug and play as far as work under the seat. Mine are crossed over at 200hz, pretty amazing considering the range of sound they are playing. You'll have plenty of power from your Eclipse amp, I'm only feeding mine 70w each and they surprise everyone that has been in the car. Everyone looks in the rear for a sub.

http://www.german-maestro.de/EN/swf8012he.htm

Morel, HAT, any 4" midrange is going to struggle getting lower than 200hz without clipping at higher volumes.

Your biggest challenge will be getting any work out of MusicarNW due to the current backlog and transition to a new space.

click to see what the underseat install comprises : http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ight=musicarnw

You could do it yourself, but it will be a LOT of fabbing that is already highly thought through, ie trim rings and spacers for the carpet...that are STUNNING in person.

Thanks for the suggestion. That sounds like the best way to get full sub bass, bass, and mid bass out of the underseat locations. I know that was my original goal. But its probably costly, I don't have the skills to do the fab myself, and I'm located in PA and Oregon is long ways a way so it wouldn't be feasible for me.

I think for ease of install and cost considerations I can give up a tiny bit of trunk space to put a custom corner box in the trunk. Again thanks for your input.

[mfish123]

How about the Rainbow SLC 210.25 NG. Seems like they have good reviews, reasonable pricing and should fit an E90 without modification? Anyone know how these stack up the DLS R4.

Does technic's dynamat DLS R4 really not seal the front and back enough and hurth their performance that much?

[thinset]

Originally Posted by mfish123

Thanks for the suggestion. That sounds like the best way to get full sub bass, bass, and mid bass out of the underseat locations. I know that was my original goal. But its probably costly, I don't have the skills to do the fab myself, and I'm located in PA and Oregon is long ways a way so it wouldn't be feasible for me.

I think for ease of install and cost considerations I can give up a tiny bit of trunk space to put a custom corner box in the trunk. Again thanks for your input.

Well...I'm in Chicago. MusicarNW fabbed everything up and sent it to me (my installer actually, but only because I don't have a garage to work in). That said, it is really easy to get the underseats in and out. The toughest part is modifying the actual enclosure. You would skip this step since MusicarNW sends you everything already built. It's literally plug and play with the exception of installing some supplied sound deadening and a foam strip.

Nothing will compare to the sound provided by this considering the very little bit of modification/ installation involved. Personally, I can't recommend it highly enough. That said, you will pay for that convenience.

Regarding the Rainbow SLC 210.25 NG, I had them installed in my previous E83. They also fit the door cards of the E90 with no modification, other than the mounting rings. The sound is really good, no complaints about them as an all around performer for the price. FWIW, I noticed way more clipping from them at full volume than with my current install in the E91. Dropping the MusicarNW recommendation again, I purchased the Rainbows from them as well. In the kit they included the trim rings, and speaker connectors for plug and play. They can also provide you the appropriate wiring if you decide to go active.