[Technic]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

I'm unclear... I know the output of the Professional HU in 2010 base model cars has an equalized response with a high-frequency boost.

So why is it a good idea to add tweeters and an amplifier to that signal? Or is the dealer recoding the HU? If so, I've missed that.

And as far as running woofers full range under there, it thickens the voices pretty badly, doesn't it?

There are some things happening here that perhaps could explain what's going on.

The iDrive does not use a cap between the woofer and the full range in the door, because its outputs are 2 ohms stable and 25W. So the woofer and the 4" driver can be played in parallel directly without any iDrive outputs impedance problem like the Professional HU 4 ohms-only stable ouputs; the iDrive OEM drivers frequency response is their filter.

Therefore, by changing the OEM 6.5" woofer to the 8" Logic7 then that frequency response changed for the woofer, so perhaps the Alpine amp either does not have built in crosovers/low pass filter for the woofer output or indeed it has a low pass output designed to complement the narrow frequency response of the original woofer and not the seemingly wider frequency response of the Logic7 woofer. I don't think that this is an impedance issue as both the 6.5" and the Logic7 woofers are 4 ohms; it could be a sensitivity issue, though.

For sure, the Alpine amp should at least have a high pass for the components as they are Logic7 speakers and that's the way they are designed to run. The inline filter/cap with "adjustable" outputs for the tweeter means that the Business HU output response is different from the Professional HU.

[Lee Rambler]

Ryan (rkm3) is a friend of mine - I haven't seen or heard the alpine kit in his car yet, but I'm guessing we can remedy the problems without TOO much trouble.
-autologic shop (heistands in manheim) can recode to hifi - though I am concerned about the rear channel sound if you care about it, since the deck switches to a 5v balanced signal instead of amplified, it may not care for the rear speakers still being connected... but this will take care of the oem eq
-if the alpine amp has no highpass for the components (which would be stupid), we can make our own filter - either before the amp signal, or after
-if the alpine amp has no lowpass filter for the woofers (which would also be stupid), we can make our own filter as well - preferrably before the amp, but can be as simple as a coil in series with the woofer (though that's a waste of power)
-if the woofer is too sensitive, we can put a reostat inline with the signal into the woofer channels to pad it down (or inline with the woofer, but that's a waste of power)
-or we can just put a decent aftermarket 4 channel in place of the alpine amp and have better flexibility and power... probobly for less money than the kit cost to start with, but oh well

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Lee Rambler

Ryan (rkm3) is a friend of mine - I haven't seen or heard the alpine kit in his car yet, but I'm guessing we can remedy the problems without TOO much trouble.
-autologic shop (heistands in manheim) can recode to hifi - though I am concerned about the rear channel sound if you care about it, since the deck switches to a 5v balanced signal instead of amplified, it may not care for the rear speakers still being connected... but this will take care of the oem eq
-if the alpine amp has no highpass for the components (which would be stupid), we can make our own filter - either before the amp signal, or after
-if the alpine amp has no lowpass filter for the woofers (which would also be stupid), we can make our own filter as well - preferrably before the amp, but can be as simple as a coil in series with the woofer (though that's a waste of power)
-if the woofer is too sensitive, we can put a reostat inline with the signal into the woofer channels to pad it down (or inline with the woofer, but that's a waste of power)
-or we can just put a decent aftermarket 4 channel in place of the alpine amp and have better flexibility and power... probobly for less money than the kit cost to start with, but oh well

This is much easier than all that... remove the whole Alpine kit.

There's no need for all those band aids.

[Imperator]

I've been scouring through other threads in the EU forums and discovered another "updated" installation manual for the kit, which calls for programming... I can't determine if that's for all radios or just the SA 662.

Lakota on babybmw.net describes how the filters work on the underside of the amp, operated by the 1-2 position switch. http://www.babybmw.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=15204

[rkm3]

To answer a few questions:

If you have a 2010 with base system, you can take the plug out at the underseat woofer, and cut all four wires. All the connections can be made right at the plug. No need to dig for wires in the foot sill. The install was very straight forward. 2.5 hours is a little short. Took me about 8 hours but I'm slow and took my time.

As far as the brightness of the highs. I feel the factory settings of this HU are set to supplement the lack of tweeters in the base system. Once you add the tweeters(metal dome in the Alpine kit) you now have an already bright tweeter with a signal that is already EQ'd for high frequency boost. Makes very bright highs. I wasn't fully aware of this going into the Alpine kit. I guess you live and learn.

In regards to the Logic7 subs. I picked these up rather cheaply and basically new. I had a 2008 E93 335 with Logic7 and thought the system was rather good. My theory was the components in the Alpine retrofit are Logic7 components, I figured adding the Logic7 subs would yield a rather decent sound on a modest budget. All while being very much PnP. Only four wires were cut at a plug to install this sytem. Nonetheless, everything in the car is a BMW part. I felt this may be useful from a warranty standpoint should it ever become an issue.

I think with a coil on the subs they will work out quite well, they sound good, but I think are trying to play too high of frequencies. The mids sound very good. The tweeters are bright, but I'm sure we can tone them down

All said and done, I have $700 wrapped into this.

I feel with a little work this can yield a very decent sound for the cost.

[Orient330iNYC]

Originally Posted by Imperator

I've been scouring through other threads in the EU forums and discovered another "updated" installation manual for the kit, which calls for programming... I can't determine if that's for all radios or just the SA 662.

Lakota on babybmw.net describes how the filters work on the underside of the amp, operated by the 1-2 position switch. http://www.babybmw.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=15204

thats for the "new" alpine kit
the one the OP has does not require coding, the updated instructions for post 3/09 build cars and that kit state there is no coding required.

[rkm3]

Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC

thats for the "new" alpine kit
the one the OP has does not require coding, the updated instructions for post 3/09 build cars and that kit state there is no coding required.

I read through several of the install instructions and I believe that even the old kit requires a recode. My guess is the recode is to take out some of the high frequency boost since there are now tweeters. Just a guess though

[rkm3]

I was wrong. Just reread the link here on page 5 for the old kit and no recoding is required.

[gIzzE]

Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC

thats for the "new" alpine kit
the one the OP has does not require coding, the updated instructions for post 3/09 build cars and that kit state there is no coding required.

I don't think it is the Alpine that needs coding, I think it is MY2010 build cars that need coding, well their head units anyway.

So whether adding the old or new kit I think it will be the age of your car that determines the need for coding or not.



Radios from MY2010 have changed, the mute for tel kits is now disabled for example.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by rkm3

As far as the brightness of the highs. I feel the factory settings of this HU are set to supplement the lack of tweeters in the base system. Once you add the tweeters(metal dome in the Alpine kit) you now have an already bright tweeter with a signal that is already EQ'd for high frequency boost. Makes very bright highs. I wasn't fully aware of this going into the Alpine kit. I guess you live and learn.

Your kit is either installed wrong or there's something wrong with the amplifier.

And I don't think that it is the latter.

[Lee Rambler]

agreed it would be best to do without the alpine amp - an inexpensive 4ch and recode will do wonders for him

[DeFKnoL]

On another thought, and not to change topics, I am curious about the iPod/USB adapter MULF HI module shown in the second picture (the first post).

It looks like there is another USB connection available. If this is a USB connection, I would assume that it is for the 6NL option (handheld integration). If I could get another (USB to LVDS?) cable for this, would the iDrive system pick it up? Or would that require some software upgrade? Anyone know about this?

If this could be used, it may be a great way to add an external harddrive to the system.

[Orient330iNYC]

Originally Posted by Technic

Your kit is either installed wrong or there's something wrong with the amplifier.

And I don't think that it is the latter.

i just installed mine today, it works without issue with an 11/09 build car with idrive. i'm not hearing what the other poster is, the highs are normal.


i have a feeling he has his filter installed wrong.

[Imperator]

How did the installation go for you and how much time did it take? What are your impressions with it afterward, compared to other cars with Hi-Fi or L7? Did you, or do you plan to replace the 6.5" midbass drivers under the seats?

[VP Electricity]

Originally Posted by Technic

The iDrive does not use a cap between the woofer and the full range in the door, because its outputs are 2 ohms stable and 25W. So the woofer and the 4" driver can be played in parallel directly without any iDrive outputs impedance problem like the Professional HU 4 ohms-only stable ouputs; the iDrive OEM drivers frequency response is their filter.

This works OK on the top end of the 6" woofer, but i'm really surprised that there isn't any kind of high-pass on the 4". I don't know of any 4" that can play all the way down without distortion in this sort of application... odd.

[Orient330iNYC]

Originally Posted by Imperator

How did the installation go for you and how much time did it take? What are your impressions with it afterward, compared to other cars with Hi-Fi or L7? Did you, or do you plan to replace the 6.5" midbass drivers under the seats?

it took me about 3.5 hours-- but i also installed the luggage hooks they deleted and pulled all my trim out to wrap. i also soldered and shrinkwrapped the connections, which added a little extra time, so i would say it should take about 3 hours total to do. post 3/09 cars need to have the front seats moved to get at the sub.

it was very straight forward, just had to make sure i had all the tools i needed before hand.

the issues i had with the stock system, coming from the L7 in my 07 was that the sound was very... "thin" sounding, and would distort pretty badly at medium high volume. and i have navi which i believe has even higher power than the CD HU ( 25 vs 15W).

i did test the system after i installed the speakers but had not yet hooked up the amp, it was already sounding better with just the mids upgraded and the tweeters installed.

after hooking everything up, its a noticeable improvement. no more distortion at the highest volumes i listen to, and that tinny, thin quality is gone. its not an L7 system. but its now a decent enough sounding system, before it was crap.

i'm still thinking about upgrading the subs....

[joelc73]

Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC

it took me about 3.5 hours-- but i also installed the luggage hooks they deleted and pulled all my trim out to wrap. i also soldered and shrinkwrapped the connections, which added a little extra time, so i would say it should take about 3 hours total to do. post 3/09 cars need to have the front seats moved to get at the sub.

it was very straight forward, just had to make sure i had all the tools i needed before hand.

the issues i had with the stock system, coming from the L7 in my 07 was that the sound was very... "thin" sounding, and would distort pretty badly at medium high volume. and i have navi which i believe has even higher power than the CD HU ( 25 vs 15W).

i did test the system after i installed the speakers but had not yet hooked up the amp, it was already sounding better with just the mids upgraded and the tweeters installed.

after hooking everything up, its a noticeable improvement. no more distortion at the highest volumes i listen to, and that tinny, thin quality is gone. its not an L7 system. but its now a decent enough sounding system, before it was crap.

i'm still thinking about upgrading the subs....

I'm confused about something... Are you sending the original HU signal to the Alpine or are you using a Cleansweep or something in between? I would think that pre-EQ'd signal would sound fairly shrill once you added the tweeters. There is a lot of pre-programed high end to compensate for no tweeters.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by joelc73

I'm confused about something... Are you sending the original HU signal to the Alpine or are you using a Cleansweep or something in between? I would think that pre-EQ'd signal would sound fairly shrill once you added the tweeters. There is a lot of pre-programed high end to compensate for no tweeters.

This is an OEM upgrade kit.

[joelc73]

Originally Posted by Technic

This is an OEM upgrade kit.

But doesn't the OEM HU send a signal pre-EQ'd for a system without tweeters? In other words, wouldn't a signal with a boosted top end sound overly bright once tweeter were added?

[Lee Rambler]

perhaps the amp has the reverse of the eq built-in? (or perhaps not, judging by rkm3's comments).

[Technic]

Originally Posted by joelc73

But doesn't the OEM HU send a signal pre-EQ'd for a system without tweeters? In other words, wouldn't a signal with a boosted top end sound overly bright once tweeter were added?

We do not know yet what this Alpine amp is doing internally with the input signal, but it seems that it must be doing something with that input signal as the whole front configuration changed from a parallel connection of just two drivers to a bi-amp woofer with component set.

One thing for sure: the tweeter output is adjustable.

[rkm3]

So Lee and i checked out the Alpine kit I have in my car. It is not wired wrong, it is just on the bright side. The speakers have flattened out after several hours of use.

I have however caught the upgrade bug. May do a custom system with Bit One and JL 6 channel. I forgot how much fun playing around with stereos can be.