E90Post
 


 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Professional Motorsport Racing Discussion (IMSA, DTM, Formula 1, Grand-AM, Le Mans, IRL, WRC, etc..) > F1 2023: Canadian GP - Montréal (June 18)



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-18-2023, 09:43 PM   #243
g21
Brigadier General
g21's Avatar
3335
Rep
3,714
Posts

Drives: M340T M550i LeafEV
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Australasia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Stewards: "Car 14 [Alonso] had to perform minor braking":
they look at the brake pedal pressure in kg on car telemetry
nothing to do with what the hands are doing
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2023, 09:54 PM   #244
a5m
Lieutenant
United_States
576
Rep
481
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW E90 M3
Join Date: Jan 2023
Location: Chitown

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Mercedes ? = No further action !
Exactly this.

Even Brundle and Crofty thought it was an unsafe release, and going by the penalty track record this weekend you'd think...but it's just the Mercedes/Lulu perpetual get out of jail free card.
Appreciate 3
      06-18-2023, 10:17 PM   #245
NickyC
Lieutenant General
NickyC's Avatar
17128
Rep
10,513
Posts

Drives: M4 CS. Former G82, x2 F82, F80
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jacked out of my mind

iTrader: (23)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
I think the gap is still considerable if RB were to tell Max to push...
Yep, RB/Max are untouchable this year.
Appreciate 2
M5Rick57725.50
      06-19-2023, 02:28 AM   #246
M5Rick
General
M5Rick's Avatar
57726
Rep
18,880
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 DCT Gunmetal
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern England

iTrader: (0)

In other words Max was cruising just enough while HAM and ALO were at max lol
Thank goodness Ferrari got a decent strat to grab those 22 points with SAI being told to play the game and stick to the program.
Appreciate 2
      06-19-2023, 02:44 AM   #247
M5Rick
General
M5Rick's Avatar
57726
Rep
18,880
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 DCT Gunmetal
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern England

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Mercedes ? = No further action !
Not even a bird lodged in a front brake duct could stop Max as he managed his 19 over the course, my worry was when he thumped that s/kerb that sent RUS into the barrier when he lost control.
The 19 is stable under extreme provocation which the 14 clearly isn't.
Link to brake duct incident
https://racingnews365.com/horner-rev...ls--2023-06-19
Appreciate 1
      06-19-2023, 03:14 AM   #248
Artemis
Moderator
Artemis's Avatar
28232
Rep
12,893
Posts

Drives: BMW M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by g21 View Post
they look at the brake pedal pressure in kg on car telemetry
nothing to do with what the hands are doing
The criterion: was Hamilton's Mercedes car released from its pit stop position in a way that could endanger Alonso/Alonso's car.

Articles 34.4 and 34.14.a) of the 2023 Formula One Sporting Regulations (25 April 2023 version - see here) specify the following about the pit lane and "unsafe pit release":
"34.4 The pit lane will be divided into two lanes, the lane closest to the pit wall will be designated the “fast lane” and may be no more than 3.5 metres wide, the lane closest to the garages will be designated the “inner lane”.
Other than when cars are at the end of the pit lane in accordance with Articles 43.3. 44.2 and 57, the inner lane is the only area where any work can be carried out on a car. However, no work may be carried out in the fast lane if it is likely to hinder other cars attempting to leave the pit lane."
"34.14 In all of the cases detailed in this Article 34.14, a car will be deemed to have been released either when it has been driven out of its designated garage area (when leaving from the garage) or after it has completely cleared its pit stop position following a pit stop.
a) Cars must not be released from a garage or pit stop position in way that could endanger pit lane personnel or another driver.
b) Competitors must provide a means of clearly establishing, when being viewed from both above and in the front of the car, when a car was released.
c) If a car is deemed to have been released in an unsafe condition during any free practice, or qualifying session or sprint shootout, the stewards may drop the driver such number of grid positions as they consider appropriate. Such penalty will be applied to the race unless the infringement has been committed during the sprint shootout, in which case the penalty will be applied to the sprint session.
d) If a car is deemed to have been released in an unsafe condition during a sprint session or a race, a penalty in accordance with Article 54.3d) will be imposed on the driver concerned. However, if the driver retires from the sprint session or the race as a result of the car being released in an unsafe condition a fine may be imposed upon the Competitor.
e) An additional penalty will be imposed on any driver who, in the opinion of the stewards, continues to drive a car knowing it to have been released in an unsafe condition."

Alonso - almost certainly driving close to the 80 km/h speed limit in the "fast lane" - used his brain, hands and feet to take evasive action, avoiding a collision with Hamilton muscling himself into the "fast lane" from the "inner lane". This was a close call. What Mercedes/Hamilton did should not have been condoned by the stewards. And it's irrelevant whether it was Mercedes/Hamilton or any other team/driver - this was an "unsafe release" by Mercedes ("Cars must not be released from a garage or pit stop position in a way that could endanger pit lane personnel or another driver.").

The alternative: Alonso does not take evasive action and damages his front-end by colliding into Hamilton.

__________________
///M is art Artemis
Appreciate 4
      06-19-2023, 04:10 AM   #249
M5Rick
General
M5Rick's Avatar
57726
Rep
18,880
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 DCT Gunmetal
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern England

iTrader: (0)

^ Karma was made for the pit lane incident when Fernie nailed hammy for second place and didn't he know it when he was surrounded by his doting team in the cool down.
Fernie has nerves of steel watching what he says and knows how to deal with his ex teammate.
''Copy, leave it to me'' nothing more needed to be added
Appreciate 2
      06-19-2023, 04:57 AM   #250
M5Rick
General
M5Rick's Avatar
57726
Rep
18,880
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 DCT Gunmetal
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern England

iTrader: (0)

Try again with the last lap.
Appreciate 1
      06-19-2023, 05:01 AM   #251
M5Rick
General
M5Rick's Avatar
57726
Rep
18,880
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 DCT Gunmetal
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern England

iTrader: (0)

..and here are the race highlights.
Appreciate 1
      06-19-2023, 05:36 AM   #252
///M Power-Belgium
General
///M Power-Belgium's Avatar
Belgium
61952
Rep
24,268
Posts

Drives: ///M3-E92-DCT Silverstone II
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
Not even a bird lodged in a front brake duct could stop Max as he managed his 19 over the course, my worry was when he thumped that s/kerb that sent RUS into the barrier when he lost control.
The 19 is stable under extreme provocation which the 14 clearly isn't.
Link to brake duct incident
https://racingnews365.com/horner-rev...ls--2023-06-19
Yeah . I heard it during the race because MAX said : I hit a bird !

Damn . May the bird RIP !
Attached Images
 
__________________
"MAX VERSTAPPEN" IS THE 2021+2022+2023 F1 WORLD CHAMPION - #UnLeashTheLion

BPM DEV-Tune & DCT Software-Tune & Servotronic & coding ///Alpine HID Angeleyes ///Oem.exhaust mod.
Appreciate 2
M5Rick57725.50
DrFerry6707.50
      06-19-2023, 05:48 AM   #253
M5Rick
General
M5Rick's Avatar
57726
Rep
18,880
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 DCT Gunmetal
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern England

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Yeah . I heard it during the race because MAX said : I hit a bird !

Damn . May the bird RIP !
In a previous house I lived in a pigeon slammed into a patio glass door, I heard the bang and the imprint of the bird was on the glass which was intact but sadly I had to bury the dead bird in a shoe box at the end of the garden.
Appreciate 2
      06-19-2023, 05:54 AM   #254
///M Power-Belgium
General
///M Power-Belgium's Avatar
Belgium
61952
Rep
24,268
Posts

Drives: ///M3-E92-DCT Silverstone II
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Yep, RB/Max are untouchable this year.
And last year (2022) ?

MAX won 15 races in 2022 , and that's a stunning F1 victory record .
And he got 2 DNF , otherwise it would have been 17 victories ...
__________________
"MAX VERSTAPPEN" IS THE 2021+2022+2023 F1 WORLD CHAMPION - #UnLeashTheLion

BPM DEV-Tune & DCT Software-Tune & Servotronic & coding ///Alpine HID Angeleyes ///Oem.exhaust mod.
Appreciate 2
M5Rick57725.50
DrFerry6707.50
      06-19-2023, 05:59 AM   #255
M5Rick
General
M5Rick's Avatar
57726
Rep
18,880
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 DCT Gunmetal
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern England

iTrader: (0)

^ Max has said the next target for him is to get 200 wins for RBR
Appreciate 2
      06-19-2023, 07:12 AM   #256
GuidoK
#buildnotbought
GuidoK's Avatar
10157
Rep
4,736
Posts

Drives: Z4 3.0i ESS TS2+
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tinkering in the garage

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post

If Alonso "had to perform minor braking" as the Stewards considered (thus required to brake), it means that Hamilton had become an obstacle while Alonso was driving in the pitlane on his way to re-enter the track.
To me when a passing car has to brake, it's an unsafe release.

But the time between the incident and the conclusion of the stewards says to me that some politics had been taken place behind the scenes. Normally they don't take this long to give a verdict for something like this.

Alonso had a pitstop that was about 1sec faster than Hammy's pitstop, that's why he was there when Hammy drove away.
__________________
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ supercharger | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | Powerflex/strongflex PU bushings | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers/KW camber plates | Sachs race engineering clutch | tons of custom sh#t
Appreciate 2
M5Rick57725.50
      06-19-2023, 09:56 AM   #257
M5Rick
General
M5Rick's Avatar
57726
Rep
18,880
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 DCT Gunmetal
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern England

iTrader: (0)

^ To me it's obvious that bc it's Hammy involved he is apportioned some 'special status' as he is currently a 7 times WC. We know any other driver would be immediately given a 5 second penalty or worse especially if vociferous Brundle was on the stewards.
Appreciate 3
      06-19-2023, 10:07 AM   #258
HeelToeShift
Captain
1745
Rep
910
Posts

Drives: Mine
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Here

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Yep, RB/Max are untouchable this year.
Let's hope they're untouchable until Max ends his contract and then he can leave F1 as a 8 time WDC (8 in a row in fact) with all the records he doesnt already have, and go on to win Le Mans and Indy 500...
I truly believe we are witnessing not only the single best man to ever pilot an F1 car (def the best since Senna and Schumacher) but maybe any car in any motorsport category if he does win in the others. We already know he's top 3 in sim racing, which is not easy and he only does in his spare time.
Appreciate 3
M5Rick57725.50
GuidoK10157.00
      06-19-2023, 10:12 AM   #259
HeelToeShift
Captain
1745
Rep
910
Posts

Drives: Mine
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Here

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
In other words Max was cruising just enough while HAM and ALO were at max lol
Thank goodness Ferrari got a decent strat to grab those 22 points with SAI being told to play the game and stick to the program.
Alo and Ham were ON IT 100% attack while Max was just taking it easy. As I previously said, the single lap after the SC ended, Max put a 1.2 gap on Ham when they were both on it. He has the ability to cruise or punish those behind him and develop a gap when/if needed.
Appreciate 3
M5Rick57725.50
GuidoK10157.00
      06-19-2023, 10:41 AM   #260
Artemis
Moderator
Artemis's Avatar
28232
Rep
12,893
Posts

Drives: BMW M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
Let's hope they're untouchable until Max ends his contract and then he can leave F1 as a 8 time WDC (8 in a row in fact) with all the records he doesnt already have, and go on to win Le Mans and Indy 500...
I truly believe we are witnessing not only the single best man to ever pilot an F1 car (def the best since Senna and Schumacher) but maybe any car in any motorsport category if he does win in the others. We already know he's top 3 in sim racing, which is not easy and he only does in his spare time.
Hamilton and Russell finished P2 and P3 after Verstappen during the F1 Barcelona GP (June 4, 2023). An interviewer coined Hamilton and Russell "best of the rest today" during a Toto Wolff interview. Those words assumed that also this season no-one is truly a match for Verstappen and his Red Bull.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Interviewer facing Toto Wolff after the 2023 Spanish GP with the fact that currently the 2023 F1 universe features two worlds: planet Max Verstappen with his RB19 and the rest of the field ('best of the rest'):
  • Interviewer: "But Toto, you [Mercedes] were 'best of the rest' today. Clearly that race pace of the [Mercedes] car is fantastic."
  • Toto Wolff: "Bringing us back on earth, yeah ?! « best of the rest »..."
  • Interviewer: "I mean, it's a big step forward. The race pace today [of the Mercedes] was lightning-quick."
01:46 - 01:56:
__________________
///M is art Artemis
Appreciate 3
      06-19-2023, 11:37 AM   #261
M5Rick
General
M5Rick's Avatar
57726
Rep
18,880
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 DCT Gunmetal
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern England

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Yeah . I heard it during the race because MAX said : I hit a bird !

Damn . May the bird RIP !
Thank you Ferrari
Helmut Marko has said that if it wasn't for the quali tyre confusion between Chas and Ferrari and the dangerous blocking of another driver by Carlos receiving a grid drop for that then RBR's 100th win would have been more difficult to achieve as the F 23's pace was very good at this track.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut...ull-100th-win/
Appreciate 2
GuidoK10157.00
      06-19-2023, 12:17 PM   #262
HeelToeShift
Captain
1745
Rep
910
Posts

Drives: Mine
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Here

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Hamilton and Russell finished P2 and P3 after Verstappen during the F1 Barcelona GP (June 4, 2023). An interviewer coined Hamilton and Russell "best of the rest today" during a Toto Wolff interview. Those words assumed that also this season no-one is truly a match for Verstappen and his Red Bull.
I think as long as Max is around, it's going to be tough for anyone else to win. And to think he is not even at his peak yet.
Appreciate 3
GuidoK10157.00
M5Rick57725.50
      06-19-2023, 12:37 PM   #263
Killed by Death
Brigadier General
Killed by Death's Avatar
11758
Rep
3,359
Posts

Drives: '23 X3 M40i
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
^ To me it's obvious that bc it's Hammy involved he is apportioned some 'special status' as he is currently a 7 times WC. We know any other driver would be immediately given a 5 second penalty or worse especially if vociferous Brundle was on the stewards.
The stewards also made sure to get Hulk out of hammy's way with a bull$hit penalty. Hulk wasn't impeding or endangering anyone.
Appreciate 3
GuidoK10157.00
M5Rick57725.50
      06-19-2023, 01:04 PM   #264
Autobacs
Captain
Autobacs's Avatar
United_States
1207
Rep
699
Posts

Drives: 2019 BMW X6M
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: WA state

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
The criterion: was Hamilton's Mercedes car released from its pit stop position in a way that could endanger Alonso/Alonso's car.

Articles 34.4 and 34.14.a) of the 2023 Formula One Sporting Regulations (25 April 2023 version - see here) specify the following about the pit lane and "unsafe pit release":
"34.4 The pit lane will be divided into two lanes, the lane closest to the pit wall will be designated the “fast lane” and may be no more than 3.5 metres wide, the lane closest to the garages will be designated the “inner lane”.
Other than when cars are at the end of the pit lane in accordance with Articles 43.3. 44.2 and 57, the inner lane is the only area where any work can be carried out on a car. However, no work may be carried out in the fast lane if it is likely to hinder other cars attempting to leave the pit lane."
"34.14 In all of the cases detailed in this Article 34.14, a car will be deemed to have been released either when it has been driven out of its designated garage area (when leaving from the garage) or after it has completely cleared its pit stop position following a pit stop.
a) Cars must not be released from a garage or pit stop position in way that could endanger pit lane personnel or another driver.
b) Competitors must provide a means of clearly establishing, when being viewed from both above and in the front of the car, when a car was released.
c) If a car is deemed to have been released in an unsafe condition during any free practice, or qualifying session or sprint shootout, the stewards may drop the driver such number of grid positions as they consider appropriate. Such penalty will be applied to the race unless the infringement has been committed during the sprint shootout, in which case the penalty will be applied to the sprint session.
d) If a car is deemed to have been released in an unsafe condition during a sprint session or a race, a penalty in accordance with Article 54.3d) will be imposed on the driver concerned. However, if the driver retires from the sprint session or the race as a result of the car being released in an unsafe condition a fine may be imposed upon the Competitor.
e) An additional penalty will be imposed on any driver who, in the opinion of the stewards, continues to drive a car knowing it to have been released in an unsafe condition."

Alonso - almost certainly driving close to the 80 km/h speed limit in the "fast lane" - used his brain, hands and feet to take evasive action, avoiding a collision with Hamilton muscling himself into the "fast lane" from the "inner lane". This was a close call. What Mercedes/Hamilton did should not have been condoned by the stewards. And it's irrelevant whether it was Mercedes/Hamilton or any other team/driver - this was an "unsafe release" by Mercedes ("Cars must not be released from a garage or pit stop position in a way that could endanger pit lane personnel or another driver.").

The alternative: Alonso does not take evasive action and damages his front-end by colliding into Hamilton.

As I said, Wolff was acting out his nervousness and trying to downplay Merc's unsafe release by mimicking Alonso's braking/evasive manuever.
__________________
2019 BMW X6M
2013 Lexus RX450H
2010 Nissan GTR AMS Omega 14
Appreciate 2
M5Rick57725.50
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:10 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST