[ss134]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

Cheers Steve, I was trying to find how much a dual clutch gearbox weighs!

Think you're right actually although I would have thought BMW could rest easy as the 1M is a totally different market 'type' than the M3, because no matter how good the 1M may be it won't offer the overall package as a sports coupe whatever and be as 'Jeckyll and Hyde' if you see what I mean. Maybe just the way I think.

Just to clarify the DCT box weight comment - it weighs 25 kg more than the 6 speed manual, it doesn't weigh 25 kg! I think youre right about the different market for the 1M but the fact is a 1M cannot come out of the factory faster than an M3 just like the M3 cannot leave the factory faster than an M5 (straight line) - marketing!

[beemerbird]

Yes, my bad wording I knew what you meant.

Basically a bag of pony nuts (food - not bollocks btw lol) more in weight so bugger all.

[dxb335d]

Doughboy i'm a petrol head and had a denz!

[MPTREE]

Here's a couple of much used words, but totally relevant to my experiences thus far, the manual petrol is massivley more " driver focused "....than the 335d auto....

It handles like a totally different car to tbh....the coupe feels lightweight & nimble compared to the touring...

It's very easy in the 335i to get the bad boy feeling without actually going that fast, say hard acceleration up to 70....the diesel will fly you there, bloody quickly, but with little involvement to offer the driver, assuming the road is straight-ish...... obviously these are only my opinions....

[Irnbrukid]

Originally Posted by ss134

Just to clarify the DCT box weight comment - it weighs 25 kg more than the 6 speed manual, it doesn't weigh 25 kg! I think youre right about the different market for the 1M but the fact is a 1M cannot come out of the factory faster than an M3 just like the M3 cannot leave the factory faster than an M5 (straight line) - marketing!

The only place the 1M will be slower than an M3 is on paper.

[ss134]

Originally Posted by Irnbrukid

The only place the 1M will be slower than an M3 is on paper.

Wrong.

Nurburgring time:

http://www.bmwblog.com/2010/12/12/bm...r-than-e46-m3/

Straight line:

http://www.fastestlaps.com/compariso...r_m_coupe.html

Power to weight is still in favour of the M3, i have no doubt that the 1M will run with an M3 upto 100 mph and be very close on certain tracks but at autobahn speeds - game over.

[Irnbrukid]

Originally Posted by ss134

Wrong.

Nurburgring time:

http://www.bmwblog.com/2010/12/12/bm...r-than-e46-m3/

Straight line:

http://www.fastestlaps.com/compariso...r_m_coupe.html

Power to weight is still in favour of the M3, i have no doubt that the 1M will run with an M3 upto 100 mph and be very close on certain tracks but at autobahn speeds - game over.

How am i wrong you pick 2 places that favour the M3, what £20k for 7 seconds on the ring...

And thats dct v manual..

Not every place favours the M3

[ss134]

Originally Posted by Irnbrukid

How am i wrong you pick 2 places that favour the M3, what £20k for 7 seconds on the ring...

And thats dct v manual.

Not every place favours the M3

You are wrong because you said the only place an m3 is faster is on paper - clearly this is not true - and i never said 'every place' favours
the M3 Anyone can pull vids out of their a** as well.

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

Talk about convincing yourself of marketing hype Mike, think it's more to do with keeping costs down, they're being a bit tight with the 1M when you start to look closely.

okay, point taken!

Put it another way, BMW obviously didn't think it would be a show stopper to sell it in manual only.

[Irnbrukid]

Originally Posted by ss134

You are wrong because you said the only place an m3 is faster is on paper - clearly this is not true - and i never said 'every place' favours
the M3 Anyone can pull vids out of their a** as well.

Just like you can pull a video out to prove the M3 is quicker somewhere it can be done in the 1's favour.

And that was 135i not a 1M that the M3 couldnt beat to 100

You make it out as if the M3 is invincible which it isnt.. but id take one over a 1M cause its ugly as sin.. saying that i would buy other cars in the M3's price range first.

[G82Dude]

Off topic, but I wonder how many 1Ms will be in the dealers with broken engines, turbos, coil packs and HP fuel pumps? Hopefully the boys and girls at M have sorted that engine out...

[ss134]

Originally Posted by Irnbrukid

Just like you can pull a video out to prove the M3 is quicker somewhere it can be done in the 1's favour.

And that was 135i not a 1M that the M3 couldnt beat to 100

You make it out as if the M3 is invincible which it isnt.. but id take one over a 1M cause its ugly as sin.. saying that i would buy other cars in the M3's price range first.

You stated that the M3 would only be faster on paper than the 1M which is a completely false statement - thats why i posted, not because i think the M3 is invincible. There are plenty of faster cars.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by jimmylad

heres some of the article. Only a couple of seconds down on an M3 as well. I think it's been mentioned a few times that the 335d can feel a bit dull but I think that's cos it's so so effortless with no drama.

And some say torque doesn't matter.

Well, I've read different figures in the German car magazine "sport auto" which is, I believe, highly respected also in the UK.

They typically test most cars on the Hockenheimring, a short circuit with lots of twists and turns, not necessarily ideal for rather heavy cars like the 335i or 335d. However, these are the times they measured:

- 335i (E92, stock): 1.17,8 min.
- 335d (E91, remapped, 338hp+660 Nm torque): 1.19,8 min.
- Alpina B3 BT (E92, 360hp): 1.16,1 min.
- M3 (E92): 1.14,3 min.

Now, I reckon that a remapped 335d as coupé (E92) will probably be somewhat faster than the touring they tested, but almost 4 seconds on that track is another world.

sport auto has not tested the 335d on the Nürburgring, so I don't have any data for this track - but I do not believe that it would be substantially different.

Alpina_B3_Lux

[Em135eye]

Very hard to find lap times for the 335d apart from the Bruntingthorpe one. Still amazed it beat a manual 335i but hey ho, you can't argue with the figures.

I suspect on a less twisty track, a 335i would easily have it.

[Irnbrukid]

Originally Posted by ss134

You stated that the M3 would only be faster on paper than the 1M which is a completely false statement - thats why i posted, not because i think the M3 is invincible. There are plenty of faster cars.

Just like you stated that a 1M will be to close to a M3 manual 'if it left the factory with dct' which has been proved by flase it would be quicker to 100, well it would make common sense to presume so since a manual 135i is quicker or lets say on par with a M3 manual.

And yes youre right saying they cant be seen to be faster, is the TTRS not faster to 100 than the R8, even though it shouldnt be seen to.

And as for the ring times, various cars suit different circuits better than others i think the 1M will beat an M3 round some circuits... only time will tell though.