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[rteichman]

Two years ago I bought a 328 coupe and specifically did not get xDrive to save on gas milage. I drive a lot and live in the Philadelphia area where we don't get much snow so I decided to go for the better MPG tradeoff. Besides, I had a 2000 3 series previously that I used to drive in the snow with no problem.

Last Spring I moved to a very VERY hilly section of Philadelphia. I was nervous because I noticed all my neighbors had SUvs LOL, but I figured what the heck. Well Sunday we got a lot of snow, and while they were very good about clearing most roads the street back to my house is up a short but steep hill. With my all season tires I was able to get out of my complex, drive downhill and then easily maneuvered around snow covered streets (BMW traction control is the best!). Unfortunately on my way back home the car would not make it up the hill. I ended up parking on the street a few blocks away in a spot I could drive into as it was down hill. I can't back out though because that is up hill. See the issue?

I figure I have to bite the bullet and do something. I love the car I have, but I also like being able to drive home. I figure my options are as follows:
1) Least expensive and if it works makes me the happiest is to buy high performance snow tires
2) Buy a hybrid SUV (for the gas milage) like the Lexus RX 400h
3) Buy a 328 xDrive Coupe.

Tires are the cheapest, but I would hate to spend $1,000 on tires only to find that I still can't get up that blasted hill. Any comments on if it will work? For those of you that know Philadelphia, I live in Manayunk. That will explain the hill part

[rudebwoi]

all you should need are good snows and you will be fine. They say RWD with 4 snows is better than AWD with all seasons. I had an a4 and I could do anything with AWD and 4 allseasons and I live in CT which gets some good storms.

[AndreyATC]

i have very very steap drive way from my housing complex
I was the only one in the whole garage making it up the driveway (15-20 cars)
X3 and S4 slided down after a few tries and showel didnt help them either
X3 has all seasons and new S4 had summers
I climbed with little difficulty with my RWD and blizzak snow tires

[swin500]

Just tried the 335 (RWD) with snows in our so called blizzard. Worked fine, glad I didn't get an X. Traction control kicks in a lot, but no problems getting around. Hold down the DTC button for three seconds and you can go slip sliding around like the old days.

[rteichman]

Thanks guys you just made my day!!! I was getting real upset about having to trade in my 328 and then spend 10-20,000 for an "upgrade" to 4 wheel drive

[AWD Addict]

I live on the top of a hill surrounded by very steep access roads all around (including "Cliff Street" - aptly named).

I watch countless cars unable to get up most of the streets, including big clunky SUVs and RWD bimmers (one for sure has snows on it).

I don't have the slightest problem, even in 4" of snow with ice sheets underneath. I run Nokian R series rubber in the winter also, which are great. Also, turn on DTC. It won't cut back on your throttle when you need it. This car simply DOMINATES snow.

Do yourself a favor. If you live and drive in a snowy climate - especially with hills, don't listen to the 2WD nuts here. AWD is a must, and you should go buy the XDrive. RWD is the worst of all formats for winter driving. You won't regret it. 2WD even with snows isn't even close to the same thing. I've watched enough RWD BMWs sliding down hills sideways, (and driven both) to know better. It's physics. Climbing a steep slippery slope with RWD and ANY rubber just isn't going to come close to true AWD - even with all seasons.

Flame suit on.

[AndreyATC]

^^ LOL
No need for flamesuit
But for Philly, RWD with snows is good enough
After all it snows the whole 2-3 times a year
Good point on DTC though
I always completelly disable it when i have to climb

OP dont want to spend $$ to get AWD, plus AWD really sucks on gas
I had 328xi loaner, boy this was terrible on gas, much worse than my 335i

BTW, I live in very hilly area and never had any issues in past 3 winters, including this blizzard with 2 feet of snow

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by AWD Addict

I live on the top of a hill surrounded by very steep access roads all around (including "Cliff Street" - aptly named).

I watch countless cars unable to get up most of the streets, including big clunky SUVs and RWD bimmers (one for sure has snows on it).

I don't have the slightest problem, even in 4" of snow with ice sheets underneath. I run Nokian R series rubber in the winter also, which are great. Also, turn off DTC. It won't cut back on your throttle when you need it. This car simply DOMINATES snow.

Do yourself a favor. If you live and drive in a snowy climate - especially with hills, don't listen to the 2WD nuts here. AWD is a must, and you should go buy the XDrive. RWD is the worst of all formats for winter driving. You won't regret it. 2WD even with snows isn't even close to the same thing. I've watched enough RWD BMWs sliding down hills sideways, (and driven both) to know better. It's physics. Climbing a steep slippery slope with RWD and ANY rubber just isn't going to come close to true AWD - even with all seasons.

Flame suit on.

thats my thread on this topic. make sure to read the last post.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=467755

First of all, RWD cars comes with LSD and no LSD which makes big difference. Second, hills are a problem on my 335i with high performance winter tires.....but this is mostly a problem if you drive slow or stop (like on a stop sign) on the hill. DTC OFF for hills and ON all other times works great

[chrispitude]

Originally Posted by AWD Addict

Do yourself a favor. If you live and drive in a snowy climate - especially with hills, don't listen to the 2WD nuts here. AWD is a must, and you should go buy the XDrive. RWD is the worst of all formats for winter driving. You won't regret it. 2WD even with snows isn't even close to the same thing. I've watched enough RWD BMWs sliding down hills sideways, (and driven both) to know better. It's physics. Climbing a steep slippery slope with RWD and ANY rubber just isn't going to come close to true AWD - even with all seasons.

Flame suit on.

I agree 100%.

I've owned FWD, RWD, and AWD cars and trucks with all-seasons, snows, and all-terrains. A RWD car with snow tires will brake and steer well, but you WILL have challenges going up hills. If you live on flat streets and you can make RWD+snows work for you, that's great. If you live out in hilly countryside, you will eventually figure this out for yourself - just hopefully not the hard way.

I put studless Blizzaks on my E36 M3, telling myself that with the limited slip diff, BMW's 50/50 weight balance and the superior braking and handling inherent in the chassis, I'd do alright. Although I could get up slick hills if I had momentum, I could not get up hills from a standing start - even with the LSD. One time traffic came to a stop on a hill and I could not get going again, so I had to shamefully put my hazards on, back up sharply onto the shoulder to avoid the guy behind me, go back down the hill when traffic cleared, and come back up it. Like AWD Addict says, there's no way around the laws of physics.

My first reaction when reading this thread title is that AWD and snow tires solve different problems:

• AWD will make your going as good as your lateral cornering and braking.
• Snow tires will increase your snow/ice grip.

If you have snow tires without AWD, you will have good lateral cornering and braking, but you will have a fraction of the acceleration traction. If you have AWD without snow tires, you will experience a loss of snow/ice traction in all categories - braking, accelerating, lateral cornering. In a harsh environment, there is no substitute for having both AWD and snow tires. If you don't live in a harsh environment, make a decision on which is best for you based on the tradeoffs above plus the cost to your wallet.

[rteichman]

Great all this AFTER I buy the Blizzaks LOL. Seriously, I learned to drive before FWD was common and when 4x4's had manual locking hubs. I'm an avid skier and drove regularly in Vermont with a 1974 Pontiac LeMans..... pre-radial tires :-)

I drive about 35,000 miles a year so gas milage is very important to me. While I live in a very hilly area I can manage my routes so that I am always driving down hill except for one stretch that is about 1,000 feet, but pretty steep (I can take routes with very gradual grades to get "uphill when needed). I hate the thought of buying an AWD for just that one stretch of road. However, if I have to I have to....

[AWD Addict]

Well, if you bought the snows, strap them on and see how it goes. Worst case, they're not wasted money, as you can just put them on an XI if you need to go that route.

[Professor///M]

Originally Posted by rteichman

Two years ago I bought a 328 coupe and specifically did not get xDrive to save on gas milage. I drive a lot and live in the Philadelphia area where we don't get much snow so I decided to go for the better MPG tradeoff. Besides, I had a 2000 3 series previously that I used to drive in the snow with no problem.

Last Spring I moved to a very VERY hilly section of Philadelphia. I was nervous because I noticed all my neighbors had SUvs LOL, but I figured what the heck. Well Sunday we got a lot of snow, and while they were very good about clearing most roads the street back to my house is up a short but steep hill. With my all season tires I was able to get out of my complex, drive downhill and then easily maneuvered around snow covered streets (BMW traction control is the best!). Unfortunately on my way back home the car would not make it up the hill. I ended up parking on the street a few blocks away in a spot I could drive into as it was down hill. I can't back out though because that is up hill. See the issue?

I figure I have to bite the bullet and do something. I love the car I have, but I also like being able to drive home. I figure my options are as follows:
1) Least expensive and if it works makes me the happiest is to buy high performance snow tires
2) Buy a hybrid SUV (for the gas milage) like the Lexus RX 400h
3) Buy a 328 xDrive Coupe.

Tires are the cheapest, but I would hate to spend $1,000 on tires only to find that I still can't get up that blasted hill. Any comments on if it will work? For those of you that know Philadelphia, I live in Manayunk. That will explain the hill part

Xdrive + Snow tires. All seasons are ok for some instances, but if you want to get up a hill, there's only 1 way.


Just FYI though, my 2011 335xi gets better gas mileage than my 2010 328xi. So if you're thinking about saving the planet, get a 335!

And if there are any questions about a petrol engine being more fuel economical than a hybrid (i know you're looking at both as per #2 above), just take a look at this video and you'll see that those hybrids are good for nothing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTOyiKLARk

[Legion5]

You can drive in Canadian snow just fine with snow tires and a bag of sand in the trunk. I did it plenty of times.

[rteichman]

Originally Posted by PAMidge

Xdrive + Snow tires. All seasons are ok for some instances, but if you want to get up a hill, there's only 1 way.


Just FYI though, my 2011 335xi gets better gas mileage than my 2010 328xi. So if you're thinking about saving the planet, get a 335!

And if there are any questions about a petrol engine being more fuel economical than a hybrid (i know you're looking at both as per #2 above), just take a look at this video and you'll see that those hybrids are good for nothing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTOyiKLARk

I saw that episode. Unfortunately most days my commute includes sitting in traffic for 30+ minutes to go 10 miles. THAT is where the Hybrid excels since it would be doing all that under pure electric. The rest of my 30,000 miles a year would be better with the gas (petrol) engine.

[rteichman]

Originally Posted by Legion5

You can drive in Canadian snow just fine with snow tires and a bag of sand in the trunk. I did it plenty of times.

Now that brings back memories of my college days when I drove that Pontiac all winter with a load of cinder blocks in the trunk.

[wrickem]

Right now, I have my friend's 328 with 1 season snow tires sitting in my driveway because none of us could get her car up our giant hilly driveway and out onto my hilly road.

I drove her home in my 335 x-drive with 3 season old snows.

[BMWsky]

I just bought an e92 RWD and ordered a set of dedicated snow tires/wheels.

My decision was based on my 2 other cars, a Jag XJ8L (RWD) and a Chrsyler 300C AWD. The Chrysler had all seasons on it and was decent in the snow. The Jag would get snows on it and it was as good or better in the snow.

IMHO, it is more about the tires. I sort of have a bug up my a$$ about the false sense of security AWD or 4WD gives (uneducated) drivers. Case in point; how many AWD or 4WD vehicles do you see in ditches during a snow storm? How many are SUV's? I see more SUV type vehicles stuck or overturned than anything else on the road.

Just because one lives in an area with snow doesn't mean one "needs" an AWD vehicle. With sensible driving and good tires, RWD will be just fine.

[AWD Addict]

Comparing an SUV to a regular passenger car is kind of silly. The center of gravity differences totally destroy a comparable situation on tire contact and stability in a loss-of-control situation. For an honest comparison, how many subarus do you see in a ditch? SUVs are in ditches for different reasons than their AWD.

As for whether someone "needs" an AWD automobile, that's kind of a silly statement. The comparison is what format is best for inclement weather, and the answer is unequivocably AWD > FWD > RWD.

A skilled driver knows the difference. It's not about a false sense of security, it's about good drivers knowing the capability ceilings of each format, and clearly, apples to apples (meaning largely tires are equal in each test), AWD is far superior.

Can you get to the grocery store in RWD with summers while it's snowing, sure. Is it a pain in the ass and less safe? Yes. The "just fine" argument is where this lands every time. Many of us are looking for a ride in our $50,000 vehicle that surpasses "just fine."

[fnckr]

Last night I drove up and down several big and steep hills in snow deep enough to scrape the underbody (Livingston to West Orange and back). I even stopped at stop signs. The key to moving again is to start off slowly and build speed slowly. I have Michelin Pilot Alpins, a sport snow tire and had no problems. Just take your time and drive prudently.

[madeinhongkong]

Just get a set of used wheels with tpms and blizzaks. Done.

[madeinhongkong]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

^^ LOL
No need for flamesuit
But for Philly, RWD with snows is good enough
After all it snows the whole 2-3 times a year
Good point on DTC though
I always completelly disable it when i have to climb

OP dont want to spend $$ to get AWD, plus AWD really sucks on gas
I had 328xi loaner, boy this was terrible on gas, much worse than my 335i

BTW, I live in very hilly area and never had any issues in past 3 winters, including this blizzard with 2 feet of snow

Agree 100% had a awd when I lived upstate was great but killed my gas. It was a Benz. C320 4matic. I'm lovin rwd with snows.

[chenx15]

Originally Posted by wrickem

Right now, I have my friend's 328 with 1 season snow tires sitting in my driveway because none of us could get her car up our giant hilly driveway and out onto my hilly road.

I drove her home in my 335 x-drive with 3 season old snows.

this one pretty much settles it. xdrive ftw!