[BLUSMBL]

Cluster in the car is not original (new to me E91, didn't put the cluster in myself), so I'm getting a false brake issue warning. Brakes are nearly new all around. OBDII code reader shows no brake issues. Would love some local (MD, will come to you) coding assistance to get this to go away! No I no longer own a Windows 7 or older laptop, which I believe is what I need to do it myself...

TIA!

[Efthreeoh]

Okay, an OBDII reader will not show brake codes. OBDII is standard across the automotive industry for generic emissions-related trouble codes only; that's the purpose for why it was implemented in 1996.

To find brake codes you need a BMW scan tool. While I can't speak to the gauge cluster replacement causing a brake warning, if the car is new to you, then check the brake fluid level first. Then check to make sure, if the brakes are recently new, the brake sensors were replaced. If the sensors were not replaced, the brake pad indicators will not reset. If you find the brake pad sensors un-worn, then I suggest unplugging them at the connector and re-plugging them back in, then try to reset the CBS.

[08TUNDRA]

if you can go into the check control display in your gauge cluster and then hold down the bc button on your turn signal it will give you a ccid number. That would be helpful regarding what kind of an error you are having.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by BLUSMBL

... [1] I'm getting a false brake issue warning. Brakes are nearly new all around. [2] OBDII code reader shows no brake issues. [3] Would love some...coding assistance to get this to go away! [4] I no longer own a Windows 7 or older laptop, which I believe is what I need to do it myself...

Welcome to the Forum! It appears we both have basically the same vehicle: 2007 328xi E91. Working backwards in your post, which I separated into 4 parts with the RED insertions:

4) If you have a Windows 10 Laptop, that will run INPA or ISTA, which you can download and install FREE, just need a K+DCAN cable for $15 to $45. If interested in doing that, post back in separate post & someone can give info.

3) Coding out a warning is rather like spraying finish coat over rust. The problem is still there, but it doesn't annoy you for a brief time. I would suggest (a) identifying what the issue is, and (b) correcting the issue.

2) "OBD II Code Reader" as that term is normally used, means a scan tool that can ONLY connect to the DME or Engine Control Module and read P-codes or generic Fault Codes saved in the DME, related to engine & emissions issues. If you have a problem related to the brakes, anything from low brake fluid, handbrake switch showing handbrake on, Pad Wear Sensor failure, wiring/ connector issue, ABS Wheel Sensor failure, etc., even if such a warning light appears on the instrument cluster, you will NOT find a Fault Code saved in DME memory. It would be saved in memory in the DSC/DXC module. INPA or ISTA+ can read Fault Codes saved in the DSC Module memory, and also do additional diagnostics such as testing Pad Wear Sensors or Wheel Speed Sensors for proper operation.

1) So let's try to address WHAT warning you are getting and try to determine WHY. You say you are "getting a false brake issue warning":

A) What warning icon/ lamp or text on CID are you seeing?
B) Has/have the same warning(s) been displayed ever since you bought the car, and if not, what if any repairs were done immediately BEFORE the warning(s) appeared?
C) Have you tried using "Check Control" to get a diagnostic "CC-ID" code to appear on your instrument cluster? See pages 67 & 68 of your Owner's Manual, or look for "Check Control" in the Index.

Please let us know exactly what icons/warnings you are seeing and where, as well as any CC-ID obtained using Check Control, and we can suggest something specific for the fault identified.

I don't understand why you think the Instrument Cluster/KOMBI may be the cause of your issue. Please explain that in more detail.

Attached are TWO pdf files you should find helpful:

1) Warning Lamps & CC-ID that can help you identify a problem when a warning lamp is lit on the Instrument Cluster.

2) Handy E9x References which has links to a number of helpful online resources, particularly Bentley Service Manual, and TIS Online Service Manual.

Please Check Control and let us know what you find,
George

[BLUSMBL]

Thanks for the detailed response, George. The warning I'm getting simply says "brake." It's the red "brake" indicator in the main cluster, not an error that shows up in the little orange screen. I am fairly confident it's the cluster issue because the BMW dealership that did the PPI before I bought the car said that's what it is, and that it needs to get coded. They did not identify any problems with the braking system and found everything to be in good working order, other than the code. I will see what I can do to do the coding myself. I am not trying to simply cover up an issue, especially one relating to the brakes. Don't really feel like dying any time soon because my brakes failed!

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by BLUSMBL

...The warning I'm getting simply says "brake." It's the red "brake" indicator in the main cluster, not an error that shows up in the little orange screen. I am fairly confident it's the cluster issue because the BMW dealership that did the PPI before I bought the car said that's what it is, and that it needs to get coded. They did not identify any problems with the braking system and found everything to be in good working order, other than the code. I will see what I can do to do the coding myself. I am not trying to simply cover up an issue, especially one relating to the brakes. Don't really feel like dying any time soon because my brakes failed!

Perhaps one of us needs to be "disabused" of his concepts of "Dealers."

Did the PPI (or your driving of the vehicle since) disclose a problem with the Cruise Control perhaps? Reason I ask, is that if the "BRAKE" warning is illuminated on the Upper-Left of the instrument cluster as soon as you insert the remote key fob into the slot (do NOT press START) that is properly the warning that your handbrake is ON/ Engaged/ pulled UP. If NOTHING changes when you (1) pull up on handbrake lever, or (2) release the handbrake lever, that function & warning is NOT working as it should, and you likely have a fault in the Handbrake Warning Switch, S31a as shown in this TIS circuit diagram:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...lights/pqQfddR

The switch simply applies a Ground signal/connection to Pin 13 of Connector X14271 at the JBE (Junction Box Electronics) Module. There is NO discreet wire from the JBE to the instrument cluster for each warning light, or combination of warning lights. The Instrument Cluster or KOMBI is itself a Control Module (A2a) and is connected to the JBE by only 6 wires, two of which are K_CAN BUS lines, which carry communications between modules:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...-panel/jPWkjxB

So what's with the Cruise Control you ask? Note the X1682 Connector dark arrow going off to the right of the Blue/Brown/Yellow wire above the Switch in the first circuit diagram. Where does that go (a spliced ground signal when handbrake is on)? Clicking on the BLUE X1682 link yields this diagram:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...200703/oQ1Rgqx

I can't say for sure, but based upon reports from others on this Forum, when the Handbrake is on (or the switch or a wiring fault in that Blue/ Brown/ Yellow wire supplies a ground signal to the JBE & DSC, the Cruise Control kicks out or won't engage. If that is the case, I suppose BMW gave the driver a panic button if the column stalk and/or brake light switch didn't work -- pull up on handbrake and cruise is de-activated.

I may be wrong on some of the diagnosis there, but if EVERYTHING ELSE works as far as the KOMBI/ Instrument Cluster is concerned, I think the Dealer's advice needs further explanation.

Finally, you say, with regard to the Dealer performing the PPI: "They did not identify any problems with the braking system and found everything to be in good working order, other than the code." Did anyone at the Dealership indicate (1)what steps they had used to scan ALL modules for codes (can be done in 2 minutes using INPA, Functional Jobs), AND (2) provide you with Fault Code numbers & Definitions?

BEFORE you spend time/money coding anything out, I would suggest FIRST using a scan tool or software that can connect to ALL modules in the vehicle (including JBE, DSC and KOMBI) and determining if there are any Fault Codes saved in module memory. INPA can also provide you with Real Time or Live Data information on Status of switches, including the Handbrake Switch. If it shows the switch closed, and you can't change that reading by raising/ lowering the lever, then the switch is bad, and NOT KOMBI.

With proper diagnostic software and a little knowledge of what it can do and how to use it, you do NOT have to guess, or take the Dealer's word for it. I would urge you and/or anyone else with an E9x and a Windows 10 Laptop, to take the time to download & install INPA or ISTA, so you don't have to rely on questionable advice from presumed experts, whose only real expertise may be taking advantage of the ignorance of customers

If you believe that the Dealer was correct, and there is/was a fault in the KOMBI, please take the time to list & explain any codes and/or tests that led to that conclusion, and I will gladly re-examine my concepts.

George

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Perhaps one of us needs to be "disabused" of his concepts of "Dealers."

Did the PPI (or your driving of the vehicle since) disclose a problem with the Cruise Control perhaps? Reason I ask, is that if the "BRAKE" warning is illuminated on the Upper-Left of the instrument cluster as soon as you insert the remote key fob into the slot (do NOT press START) that is properly the warning that your handbrake is ON/ Engaged/ pulled UP. If NOTHING changes when you (1) pull up on handbrake lever, or (2) release the handbrake lever, that function & warning is NOT working as it should, and you likely have a fault in the Handbrake Warning Switch, S31a as shown in this TIS circuit diagram:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...lights/pqQfddR

The switch simply applies a Ground signal/connection to Pin 13 of Connector X14271 at the JBE (Junction Box Electronics) Module. There is NO discreet wire from the JBE to the instrument cluster for each warning light, or combination of warning lights. The Instrument Cluster or KOMBI is itself a Control Module (A2a) and is connected to the JBE by only 6 wires, two of which are K_CAN BUS lines, which carry communications between modules:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...-panel/jPWkjxB

So what's with the Cruise Control you ask? Note the X1682 Connector dark arrow going off to the right of the Blue/Brown/Yellow wire above the Switch in the first circuit diagram. Where does that go (a spliced ground signal when handbrake is on)? Clicking on the BLUE X1682 link yields this diagram:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...200703/oQ1Rgqx

I can't say for sure, but based upon reports from others on this Forum, when the Handbrake is on (or the switch or a wiring fault in that Blue/ Brown/ Yellow wire supplies a ground signal to the JBE & DSC, the Cruise Control kicks out or won't engage. If that is the case, I suppose BMW gave the driver a panic button if the column stalk and/or brake light switch didn't work -- pull up on handbrake and cruise is de-activated.

I may be wrong on some of the diagnosis there, but if EVERYTHING ELSE works as far as the KOMBI/ Instrument Cluster is concerned, I think the Dealer's advice needs further explanation.

Finally, you say, with regard to the Dealer performing the PPI: "They did not identify any problems with the braking system and found everything to be in good working order, other than the code." Did anyone at the Dealership indicate (1)what steps they had used to scan ALL modules for codes (can be done in 2 minutes using INPA, Functional Jobs), AND (2) provide you with Fault Code numbers & Definitions?

BEFORE you spend time/money coding anything out, I would suggest FIRST using a scan tool or software that can connect to ALL modules in the vehicle (including JBE, DSC and KOMBI) and determining if there are any Fault Codes saved in module memory. INPA can also provide you with Real Time or Live Data information on Status of switches, including the Handbrake Switch. If it shows the switch closed, and you can't change that reading by raising/ lowering the lever, then the switch is bad, and NOT KOMBI.

With proper diagnostic software and a little knowledge of what it can do and how to use it, you do NOT have to guess, or take the Dealer's word for it. I would urge you and/or anyone else with an E9x and a Windows 10 Laptop, to take the time to download & install INPA or ISTA, so you don't have to rely on questionable advice from presumed experts, whose only real expertise may be taking advantage of the ignorance of customers

If you believe that the Dealer was correct, and there is/was a fault in the KOMBI, please take the time to list & explain any codes and/or tests that led to that conclusion, and I will gladly re-examine my concepts.

George

I would think an easy test for the handbrake warning is pulling up the lever while the car is in motion. The red "brake" icon should illuminate and the warning chime should sound. If the other chimes sound, such as the seatbelt warning, then the chime should sound when the handbrake is pulled. If the handbrake chime doesn't sound, then your diagnosis of a faulty switch is plausible.

[BLUSMBL]

My basic code reader is not up to the job... but my brother's Snap On reader is. Will start there. My fault I suppose for trusting a Stealership. They did not provide me with the codes, since I was not the one having the work done; it was a PPI being done for me, through the seller, because I was an out of state buyer. The records from the PPI indicate they did the sort of search y'all are describing. I don't think there's any fault related to the e-brake; that seems to work normally. I'll have the car up on a lift tomorrow and will check it all out myself.

[nsjames]

the handbrake may work perfectly fine, but that doesn't mean the switch is faulty, misaligned/adjusted or that the wire going to it simply hasn't fallen off.

I agree that there's no coding that should make the red brake light appear because of an incorrect software configuration.

Does you cluster have the tamper dot next to the ODO? Because if it doesn't then someone virginized it and it should have been coded to the car upon first install.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by BLUSMBL

[1] My basic code reader is not up to the job... but my brother's Snap On reader is. Will start there...[2] I don't think there's any fault related to the e-brake; that seems to work normally. [3] I'll have the car up on a lift tomorrow and will check it all out myself.

1) I don't know what the capability of the Snap On scan tool is, but the JBE module (Junction Box Electronics Module) is what the scan tool or software must connect to (via the OBD II socket) in order to "read" the status of the Handbrake SWITCH contacts. I will attach to my next post to this thread a screen print of the INPA screen that shows how INPA indicates whether the switch contacts are CLOSED (Handbrake ON position) or not.

The beauty of testing via proper software connected to the OBD II socket is that you don't have to disassemble stuff to test with a meter. The switch in question is under the center console, and you would have to remove a LOT of stuff to get to it, so don't want to have to do that unless necessary to replace old switch or wiring while you have things torn apart.

2) Perhaps I was NOT clear in my earlier post. The SWITCH in question, S31a in the TIS circuit diagram, simply is for WARNING, via the "BRAKE" warning on the instrument cluster, when the handbrake is ON or engaged, so you don't burn up your handbrake shoes, not realizing the handbrake is engaged as you merrily drive off. So (a) there is NOTHING hydraulically/ mechanically wrong with braking action, either of the service (main) brake, OR the handbrake (AKA parking/ emergency brake), but rather ONLY the warning light.

3) There is NOTHING to "check out" visually, on a lift or otherwise. The fault is entirely electrical, thereby confounding mechanically-inclined mech-niks who can rebuild the engine blind-folded, but can't read a circuit diagram with a magnifying glass.

In summary, you need to "see" (electronically) Status of Handbrake Switch Contacts in real time, to see if they close when handle lifted, and open when handle lowered, or more correctly whether ground signal is received at the JBE ONLY when the handbrake handle is raised. Your car has the ability to show that WITHOUT dismantling ANYTHING, just by connecting computer with proper software installed (INPA or ISTA) to the OBD II socket. Two minutes or less to connect to JBE, select F5 (Status) | F5 (Contacts) in INPA, and voila, a black-filled circle by "Handbrake" when handle up, and UNFILLED circle when handle is down. A 10-year-old could do it once seeing how it's done.

My bet is that there is something, such as a short to ground in the Blue/Brown/ Yellow wire that goes from the switch to the JBE, that is causing your dash BRAKE light to be on.

BTW, you didn't say (1) If the BRAKE indicator in the Upper-Left of the Instrument Cluster is the ONLY light on when you put the remote in the slot, (2) whether it stays lit whether Handbrake lever is raised or lowered, AND (3) whether the cruise control works or not.

Please show any tech who looks at the issue the circuit diagrams linked in prior post and explanations offered.

Please let us know what you find,
George

[gbalthrop]

Here's the ScreenPrint of INPA screen: JBE | F5 (Status) | F5 (Contacts)
For Handbrake Switch Ground signal as received by JBE
German version of INPA; "Handbremse" = Handbrake
Handbrake ON when ScreenPrint made, black/filled circle

George

[BLUSMBL]

Tamper dot is there, which is no surprise, since it's not the original cluster. Brake light remains on regardless of handbrake lever position. Cruise control works just fine. Snap On code tool is a pro-grade unit that can read just about anything; brakes, air bag, emissions, TPMS, you name it. We shall see what it says and go from there. Thank you for all of the input and suggestions. I'll return with what I've found, hopefully later today.

[Efthreeoh]

So here are my thoughts about the light being an issue due to the cluster change out. I've posted the story before, but long story short, for the N52 in the E90, the CBS is coded to start ignoring the oil quality data provided by the oil sensor starting at 186,000 miles (300,000 klicks). Being I had so many miles accumulated so fast, my car was the first in the US to have the problem; this is what BMW N.A. told me. So at that time BMW couldn't get the software patch installed to fix the oil notification issue the situation causes. During BMWs attempt to fix the software, they reflashed the entire compliment of software in all the modules several times.

A few years later, my left front brake chewed right through the pad into the rotor, which should not have happened. I never got a front brake pad warning notification from the CBS, which I was expecting to get; keep in mind, I have 3 BMWs and a fourth E30 I had for 18 years, so I'm a big proponent of BMW's brake pad wear system, so I rely on it.

So I got to pondering why the pad notification never went off and I lunched the rotor (not that I cared because I always replace pads and rotors as a set). Anyway, I decided that when the dealer reflashed my car, it lost all memory of what the CBS was tracking as far as my brake pad wear. I must have worn through the 1st wire on the pad wear sensor prior to the reflash, so when the CBS memory was lost the pad notification algorithm started over new for the countdown not knowing the 1st stage of the pad sensor had triggered.

Since the oil monitor software patch basically programs the kombi to stop reporting the oil life condition, perhaps changing out the guage cluster in your car and the resultant effect it might have on kombi adjustment to your cars mileage vs. the car mileage where the cluster came from, the CBS is falsely showing a pad wear condition.

This is why I suggest, if the pads are as fresh as you say they are AND new sensors were installed along with the pads, simply unplugging the sensors and re-plugging them back in, and then resetting the CBS brake pad system, will fix the problem.

[BLUSMBL]

Thanks, I'll give that a try. Just checked the CBS system warnings, and I get a CC-ID 71 code, which is a brake pad sensor. Could just be a bad sensor, or as you suggest, perhaps just try unplugging and replugging them; no idea which one is bad if that's what it is, but hoping my brother's better scanner can determine that.

Hoping to get into all of this tomorrow; just got the car back from state inspection. Nothing super major (the brake warning failed the car in part), though the headlights sit too low! 24" minimum in MD. Car must either have dead springs or be lowered. It does sit a little low (and handles beautifully), but I think I need some springs. Also need control arm bushings. Otherwise good to go.

[Raakhuga]

Originally Posted by BLUSMBL

Thanks, I'll give that a try. Just checked the CBS system warnings, and I get a CC-ID 71 code, which is a brake pad sensor. Could just be a bad sensor, or as you suggest, perhaps just try unplugging and replugging them; no idea which one is bad if that's what it is, but hoping my brother's better scanner can determine that.

Hoping to get into all of this tomorrow; just got the car back from state inspection. Nothing super major (the brake warning failed the car in part), though the headlights sit too low! 24" minimum in MD. Car must either have dead springs or be lowered. It does sit a little low (and handles beautifully), but I think I need some springs. Also need control arm bushings. Otherwise good to go.

When i bought my car they put in new brakes in the front but didn't switch the sensors , when i reset the front brake with the bc button it gave a warning that i had to replace the brakes while this was impossible since they had just been replaced.
Upon contacting the seller he informed me that he didn't switch out the sensors. Went to a local dealer and he put in new sensors which fixed the problem.
You might have the same problem since the red E-brake light is on, my car also had this.

Hope it helps with your problem although its not quite the same problem.

[BLUSMBL]

Originally Posted by Raakhuga

When i bought my car they put in new brakes in the front but didn't switch the sensors , when i reset the front brake with the bc button it gave a warning that i had to replace the brakes while this was impossible since they had just been replaced.
Upon contacting the seller he informed me that he didn't switch out the sensors. Went to a local dealer and he put in new sensors which fixed the problem.
You might have the same problem since the red E-brake light is on, my car also had this.

Hope it helps with your problem although its not quite the same problem.

Certainly sounds similar! We shall see.

[Raakhuga]

Originally Posted by BLUSMBL

Certainly sounds similar! We shall see.

Keep us posted. Good luck ! 🤙🏻

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Raakhuga

When i bought my car they put in new brakes in the front but didn't switch the sensors , when i reset the front brake with the bc button it gave a warning that i had to replace the brakes while this was impossible since they had just been replaced.
Upon contacting the seller he informed me that he didn't switch out the sensors. Went to a local dealer and he put in new sensors which fixed the problem.
You might have the same problem since the red E-brake light is on, my car also had this.

Hope it helps with your problem although its not quite the same problem.

A perfect example of an improperly maintained BMW is the one that gives you problems...

[Raakhuga]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

A perfect example of an improperly maintained BMW is the one that gives you problems...

Actually i've only had the car since 3 weeks and i am giving it all the love she deserves

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Raakhuga

Actually i've only had the car since 3 weeks and i am giving it all the love she deserves

Yup, it was the knucklehead who owned it before you. Now don't go and over due the maintenance. Doubling up of maintenance does not increase the cars life by x2.

[Raakhuga]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Yup, it was the knucklehead who owned it before you. Now don't go and over due the maintenance. Doubling up of maintenance does not increase the cars life by x2.

No haha i know that 😄 just keeping everything running Nice and smooth 🤙🏻

[BLUSMBL]

Well, Saturday repair efforts were a bit of a bust, thanks to the parts delivery guy not showing up. So glad I wasted two hours of driving to and from my brother's shop for that. Anyway, got the car up on the lift at least, and discovered that it has Eibach lowering springs (that caused it to fail inspection, as the headlights sit too low; 24" minimum in MD). Brother just picked up replacement struts and rear springs at a nearby junkyard that look pretty solid. Eibachs for sale soon...

Also tried removing and reattaching the existing brake pad sensors, and clearing the codes. Didn't work. Had new sensors on order, but again they did not show up. Grr. The Snap On Solus scanner did pick up a sensor error; clearing it didn't do anything; error/warning came right back.

Will post back once the sensors come in and I get a chance to get back to the shop.