[yupetc]

So is it safe to say, for us with just the AA or BPC regular stage 2 tunes, that installing MILVS without the dedicated MILV tune udpate, we can still get a bit of power gain?

I've followed every post out here in this thread, and so far, all claims have been vague and I do see few guys claiming gain with butt-feel dyno. No one really hammer it down and stated that MILVS alone did the gain. Of course with a dedicated MILVS tune, there are gains out there, I understand.

To my understanding, MILVS with no dedicated tune yields butt-feel gains is equivalent to back in the old days when I upgrade an intake to a 4th gen Nissan Maxima. It's very minimal, and most claims are verbally expressed, but no one was ever sure. Even the official vendor dyno's showed 2hp/3tq here and there throughout the rpms, with maybe a small peak gain of 5hp/6tq somewhere up high.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by yupetc

So is it safe to say, for us with just the AA or BPC regular stage 2 tunes, that installing MILVS without the dedicated MILV tune udpate, we can still get a bit of power gain?

I've followed every post out here in this thread, and so far, all claims have been vague and I do see few guys claiming gain with butt-feel dyno. No one really hammer it down and stated that MILVS alone did the gain. Of course with a dedicated MILVS tune, there are gains out there, I understand.

To my understanding, MILVS with no dedicated tune yields butt-feel gains is equivalent to back in the old days when I upgrade an intake to a 4th gen Nissan Maxima. It's very minimal, and most claims are verbally expressed, but no one was ever sure. Even the official vendor dyno's showed 2hp/3tq here and there throughout the rpms, with maybe a small peak gain of 5hp/6tq somewhere up high.

There is no gain without a tune for it. Period.

[Phyrexia]

Concur.

I feel like there's a conceptual misunderstanding. People want to know what the MILVS do for the car, but really what one needs to think about is the difference between a tune and a tune + MILVS.

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

There is no gain without a tune for it. Period.

[6ixSpd]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

There is no gain without a tune for it. Period.

This. As mentioned many, many times, you will not have any gains without the requisite tune.

[Biginboca]

MILV’s with no tune... well you do still get the 6 gram weight savings lol

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Biginboca

MILV’s with no tune... well you do still get the 6 gram weight savings lol

[CobraMarty]

MILVs with no tune...

If you dyno your car, then install the MILVs and re-dyno the car, there will be no gains. No time to adapt.

I still believe that if you install the MILVs, no tune, and drive for 2+weeks and let it adapt and then dyno the car, you will have more power. Not as much as with a MILVs tune but more than before. Now if you disconnect the battery, you lose the adaptations and back to stock power until it re-adapts.

I haven't tested this theory but I will at some point.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by CobraMarty

MILVs with no tune...

If you dyno your car, then install the MILVs and re-dyno the car, there will be no gains. No time to adapt.

I still believe that if you install the MILVs, no tune, and drive for 2+weeks and let it adapt and then dyno the car, you will have more power. Not as much as with a MILVs tune but more than before. Now if you disconnect the battery, you lose the adaptations and back to stock power until it re-adapts.

I haven't tested this theory but I will at some point.

I have - no dyno, but the car felt the exact same. Some people said weaker, but mine had no change.

There is nothing to adapt - the targets are still the same and the car is going to function as such

[6ixSpd]

^yup.

[CobraMarty]

I hear you but I am still not so sure.
I remember when they first thought that the world was round and MILVs wouldn't work at all.

So without a doubt we agree that the MILVs cause more intake valve lift and this more intake valve lift allows more air into the cylinder during cylinder filling.

The DME doesn't know that there is more air and will keep on injecting the same fuel as before, but the AFR will be leaner (more air and same fuel) and the O2 sensor will read 'Lean' due to the more air. The DME will see this and 'learn' and respond/adapt with more fuel to get back to the target AFR and O2 sensor reading. So more air and more fuel = more power.

Now is there more power if you add even more fuel and make it richer and more ignition timing advance which a tune might just do? Probably.

It's my working theory in progress. To be tested.
I still think that a 'proper' MILVs tune is the way to go, like BPC.

[Elias_E90]

Originally Posted by CobraMarty

I hear you but I am still not so sure.
I remember when they first thought that the world was round and MILVs wouldn't work at all.

I installed the milvs yesterday. Based on butt dyno the car feels a tiny bit stronger on high rpm. Its sound have definetly changed up there as well. It felt a tiny bit slower in the mid range though. (This all my feelings).

I have the tune updated from bpc and will flash it soon. Car is still adapting though

[RJC612]

Hey everyone, I'm new to the forum. Just picked up one of these cars and started building it up a little. CobraMarty, are there any sets of MILVs available now how much do they cost and how would I order them? Looks like an awesome addition!

[avocet]

Originally Posted by CobraMarty

MILVs with no tune...

If you dyno your car, then install the MILVs and re-dyno the car, there will be no gains. No time to adapt.

I still believe that if you install the MILVs, no tune, and drive for 2+weeks and let it adapt and then dyno the car, you will have more power. Not as much as with a MILVs tune but more than before. Now if you disconnect the battery, you lose the adaptations and back to stock power until it re-adapts.

I haven't tested this theory but I will at some point.

Absolutely agree.

There seems to be no argument that a charcoal delete/filter can make a difference to output without a tune. Or a straightened/smoothed intake tube. Or headers.

These are all doing the same thing. Increasing volumetric efficiency.

Will a tune be beneficial? Absolutely. But to say it(Milv's) will do nothing ignores the fact that the Milv's physically increase intake volume under certain conditions.

It might not be much, but, IMO, there will be an increase in volumetric efficiency (power) regardless of tune.

[CobraMarty]

That's what I'm saying. Has to be something, maybe not max, but something.

Got plenty of MILVs boxed and ready. All new sets, sorry no used sets.
$350 shipped. PM me if interested for more details. For N51/N52/N55/S55 engines.

[varoadking]

Bumping the thread because MILV's should never be ignored for 2 weeks...

[RJC612]

Agreed! I ordered a set last week and I am very excited to install them, hopefully this weekend. Does anyone have a Dyno to share from MILVs added to an automatic AWD model? I could have missed it, but I don't think there are any in this thread... if not I guess I can be the guinea pig but it would take me some time to get that Dyno.

Picked up a car cheap and I'm gonna make my base model all she can be ��

Another question, maybe off topic but anyone here have experience with the AFE N52 300 cell catted headers? Saw Marty posted about it but wasn't sure if anyone actually has them. This is the product I plan to buy, already have SS secondary delete and PE pipes to go with it. Being in MA, I'm not willing to go without cats completely. Anyways, my real questions is about BPC tune configuration when paired with the AFE headers. When I buy my BPC tune after the AFE headers are installed, is it safe for me to run the burble tune option? Obviously if I can, I want to. I may be wrong but my understanding of overrun is more fuel gets dumped in than needed which ignites in the exhaust causing pops and burble but this can damage the cats. Can someone add to this or correct me if I'm wrong? Don't want to damage the cats...
Thanks!

[atmosphericM]

The burble tune is only for use with NO cats, at all. You've got the right idea re. the tune and fuel burning out the cats.

At least two guys here have bought and installed the AFE headers but no one ever provided any solid feedback or dyno numbers. They're rarely used, but if you need them for emissions, well then you need them. They're surely a decent improvement over the stock manifolds.

I wouldn't bother dynoing your AWD after MILVS. Unless you have a before dyno, what's the point?

IMO get cat-less headers and reinstall your secondary cats vs. using catted headers w/no secondaries. The further the cats are from the motor, the more power you'll make. Plus, cat-less headers can be had for pretty cheap compared to the catted ones.

[desertman123]

Originally Posted by varoadking

Bumping the thread because MILV's should never be ignored for 2 weeks...

I'd be picking some up but you know how bimmers are.. 7 other things came first

[RJC612]

Originally Posted by atmosphericM

The burble tune is only for use with NO cats, at all. You've got the right idea re. the tune and fuel burning out the cats.

At least two guys here have bought and installed the AFE headers but no one ever provided any solid feedback or dyno numbers. They're rarely used, but if you need them for emissions, well then you need them. They're surely a decent improvement over the stock manifolds.

I wouldn't bother dynoing your AWD after MILVS. Unless you have a before dyno, what's the point?

IMO get cat-less headers and reinstall your secondary cats vs. using catted headers w/no secondaries. The further the cats are from the motor, the more power you'll make. Plus, cat-less headers can be had for pretty cheap compared to the catted ones.

All fair points. Thing is, I have already kind of committed to my setup so whatever it ends up being is just what it is. This car is my daily but I couldn't help turning it into a bit of a project. Just wanted it to be able to put a little more power down.

The Dyno I meant more as just a method to measure the endpoint. Not a before and after comparison. The car was never dynoed stock, and I have done a whole bunch of mods to it plus still running the stock tune so the car is all out of whack in that respect. Who knows what power it is making now and what gains can be attributed to what mod. When I see N52 dynos online, they are usually from rwd models and usually manual also. It would be interesting to see, if worse case scenario you have an auto awd (like me), what can the N52 put down FBO under these conditions? Not sure this question has yet been answered. So once everything is installed, I may pay for a few pulls if I feel so inclined.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by RJC612

All fair points. Thing is, I have already kind of committed to my setup so whatever it ends up being is just what it is. This car is my daily but I couldn't help turning it into a bit of a project. Just wanted it to be able to put a little more power down.

The Dyno I meant more as just a method to measure the endpoint. Not a before and after comparison. The car was never dynoed stock, and I have done a whole bunch of mods to it plus still running the stock tune so the car is all out of whack in that respect. Who knows what power it is making now and what gains can be attributed to what mod. When I see N52 dynos online, they are usually from rwd models and usually manual also. It would be interesting to see, if worse case scenario you have an auto awd (like me), what can the N52 put down FBO under these conditions? Not sure this question has yet been answered. So once everything is installed, I may pay for a few pulls if I feel so inclined.

Arma headers?
I think you should consider the 330i tune that hassmaschine and Terraphantm have created. It's a good starting point until you get your tune. They also may offer an upgraded/updated Automatic transmission tune from rjahl from XHP.

You stock software is literally the worst of the bunch, and the 330i software that is offered by Bimmerlabs would be a great starting point for you until you buy a tune from BPC/Bimmerlabs/AA

[RJC612]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

Arma headers?
I think you should consider the 330i tune that hassmaschine and Terraphantm have created. It's a good starting point until you get your tune. They also may offer an upgraded/updated Automatic transmission tune from rjahl from XHP.

You stock software is literally the worst of the bunch, and the 330i software that is offered by Bimmerlabs would be a great starting point for you until you buy a tune from BPC/Bimmerlabs/AA

They are straight from AFE actually. They look a bit different in person than photos they advertise but still very nice. The flanges, bends, finish, welds etc all look high quality and my god these are light. Much lighter than I anticipated. Has to be some weight savings there even if it's only 10lbs it's got to be something.

Tell me about it. As my whip did start it's life as a 325, the stock tune is GARBAGE. I would even venture as far as to say that the exhaust 3IM and CAI etc have afforded me 0 additional power when applied over the stock tune, maybe even subtracted power. I just keep telling myself all this $$$ spent will be well worth it once the car is retuned. After all I am still working with only 1 DISA here

Plan is to do tune headers oil pan gasket and 330 oil cooler retrofit all in a weekend coming up at some point soon. I think after that there will be a type of "night and day" shock value which no lie I am looking forward to. Just don't wanna waste any time or money tuning the car at an intermediate state when I will just have to deal with it all over again once everything is bolted on.

Apologies for the off topic content.

[CobraMarty]

Yep they even work on N55 and S55 engines.