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Metallic Ticking noise coming from engine?
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01-26-2010, 12:02 PM | #1255 |
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I will be asking to get my cylinder head replaced when I go in for a brake fluid flush on Monday. I'll let you guys know what the part numbers are.
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01-26-2010, 12:10 PM | #1256 |
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If it helps, here are the part numbers for my fix - cylinder head replacement done in August of 2009
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01-26-2010, 12:21 PM | #1257 |
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Here is my parts list as well (re-post). I don't have the old original cylinder head P/N for comparison, but note the description of the new cylinder head P/N: "Cylinder head with valve"...
(1) 11-12-7-591-617 N52 Cylinder head with valve (1) 11-12-9-391-547 Set of Alu. screws F Cylinder (1) 11-12-7-548-799 Bolt cylinder head (1) 11-12-0-392-547 set of alu. screws (3) 11-12-7-521-167 ASS-Stud Bolt (2) 11-36-7-524-954 Collar Screw (1) 11-12-7-555-757 Cylinder head gasket (1) 11-12-7-548-921 Gasket set cylinder head (1) 11-12-0-409-288 set of alu. screws (2) 13-62-7-530-413 Torx screw (2) 11-12-7-529-997 Torx Screw (6) 33-32-6-768-354 Hex screw with collar (1) 11-42-7-566-327 Set oil-filter Elem (7) 07-51-0-017-954 Motor oil SW30 (1) 82-14-1-467-704 Antifreeze (1) 22-11-0-392-551 Set of Alu. screws
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01-26-2010, 12:43 PM | #1258 |
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^^^So they have to replace the oil and coolant as well with the repair?
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01-26-2010, 07:06 PM | #1260 |
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Yes, before they take off the head, they have to drain both coolant and oil. There are separate oil and coolant channels inside the engine and head.
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01-26-2010, 09:08 PM | #1261 |
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Nice so I'll get a coolant flush out of the deal!
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01-28-2010, 06:16 PM | #1262 |
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Just curious, why would you need the whole head replaced instead of the lifters?
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01-28-2010, 07:31 PM | #1263 |
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01-28-2010, 08:50 PM | #1265 |
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^^^Maybe you should have saved as a pdf?
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01-29-2010, 11:29 AM | #1266 |
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Wow, I haven't been on the boards for a while and find this thread. I wasn't surprised though.
To start out, the N52 engine does not have "lifters". Those belong in push-rod engines. They do have HVA's (Hydraulic Valve Adjusters) and they are the cause of the ticking noise you guys are all hearing. In the beginning of all of this, we were installing improved cylinder heads with an extra check valve installed to prevent the valve spring pressure (no matter what position the engine stops at when shut down, there is always 2 valves that are left open causing spring pressure on the HVA's) from pushing the oil out of the HVA's. This was an interim fix until the HVA's could be re-designed to prevent the bleed down. Now BMW has re-designed the HVA's to prevent the bleed down and the expensive cylinder head replacement is no longer necessary. Replacing the 12 exhaust HVA's with updated ones has fixed every car I've seen so far. There is no long term effects from this, you could run the engine without making the repair and it would not effect it's durability at all. The noise is just a nuisance, pure and simple. Within minutes of cold start up the HVA's pump back up with oil and all is normal. If anybody is in the mood for a quiz.........why are the intake HVA's not effected on this engine? A pat on the back for any non-BMW technician that can answer this correctly
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01-29-2010, 12:23 PM | #1267 | |
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Quote:
You mentioned that the cylinder heads replacement was an interim solution. Does it mean that this fix is not as robust and as permanent as the re-designed HVAs?
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01-29-2010, 02:10 PM | #1268 | |
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Quote:
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01-29-2010, 02:50 PM | #1269 | |
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Quote:
Last edited by davidk; 01-29-2010 at 02:58 PM.. |
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01-29-2010, 05:46 PM | #1270 | |
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Quote:
So the question is why does this problem seem to be common with short driving cycles? What is the difference with long versus short trips and the ticking? Why do the HVA'a bleed down differently or are affected differently based on run time? This is puzzling me. I have personally found that the problem is not fully resolved with the lifter replacement. Cold starts after short runs has still produced the ticking on my car. It goes away quicker but still there. In addition if what you are saying is true with the exhaust HVA's bleeding down on the ones with the open valves when the engine is off why is the ticking always seem the be coming from the back of the engine? I would have to say that the ticking goes away after maybe few minutes of regular driving but definitely not idling. Not put you on the spot...just trying to understand why this is happening. In addition can you tell me what the (2) solenoid valves that are on the front of the head control? Thanks!! Last edited by kkowalsk; 01-29-2010 at 06:38 PM.. |
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02-01-2010, 08:30 AM | #1271 |
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Yey!! Great answer, since the intakes have valvetronic the intake valves are at minimum lift at idle (and at shut down) which doesn't allow any spring pressure to push the oil out of the HVA's.
My only answer to the short trip driving causing it more often is that maybe they don't get completely bled of all the air before the engine is shut back down again, causing the noise to come back immediately. The two solenoids on the front of the engine control the oil pressure to the Vanos units mounted on the front of the camshafts. By varying the oil pressure to the Vanos units the DME can advance/retard the camshafts for variable cam timing. I'm sure you can guess, but one is for the intake cam and the other is for the exhaust cam. This system is completely seperate from Valvetronic. Anybody up for another useless trivia question? Why do none of our engines have EGR valves on them (exluding Diesels)?
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02-01-2010, 09:18 AM | #1272 |
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^^^ YES Mine only ticks when cold or low on oil and the techs at my dealership BLAME it on having the original 2006 N52 VANOS or Valvetronic system and that it wont hurt anything at all, and they wont do anything to fix it because they say it is NORMAL.
Is this true or BS? I have a 2006 325XI THANKS
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02-01-2010, 10:15 AM | #1273 |
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HVA fix
I have a 2006 330xi and had the "lifter tick" issue. I took it into the dealership to have it fixed and they performed the HVA replacement and the noise has not come back. I have a 2006 330xi w/ 52K miles on it.
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02-01-2010, 01:08 PM | #1274 |
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Well, the updated HVA's are "supposed" to be the fix making replacing the expensive (to BMW) cylinder heads on these cars not necessary. There may be a few cars out there that still tick after the exhaust HVA's are replaced, I've not seen any so far and have probably done 40 sets of them since we quit replacing heads and started replacing HVA's instead.
I will say again though, the noise is more of a nuisance than anything. It's not going to cause any permanent or long term damage. It's just a matter of getting the HVA's bled out, which normally happens almost immediately on start up unless it's really cold. The orifices in these HVA's for oil to flow through are very very small. On a cold start the engine oil is cold and thick which makes it take longer to get that thick oil into those tiny orifices in the HVA's. If anybody has ever takin one of these HVA's out and tried to compress them to push the oil out you will understand. Normally it takes a putting it in a bench vice and squeezing the holy crap out of it to get them to compress the oil out. On a side note, you guys oughta hear these engines the first time you fire them up after replacing the HVA's. They tick so back you'd think it was coming apart!!
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02-01-2010, 01:25 PM | #1275 |
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On our 2006 330xi with 28,000 miles the ticking was really bad. We have the lifters done in November and that cleared it up for a couple of weeks, then it was back. A couple of times it was worse/louder than it had been before. I went back and they heard the ticking. They opened a claim with the national techs and got permission to replace the head. That was done last week and so far so good. Of course the lifters were good for a couple of weeks.
For those that think they have this issue our car did it on a regular basis. It is quite noticable. As my wife said, if I wanted a car that sounded like this I would have got a Hyundai! It happened in cold weather and in the summer. It was not every time we started the car, but both times we had it in the shop it made the noise for the tech. It took some work with the dealer to get them to do the work. We were told it is normal and not to worry about it, they bled the system but the problem was still there. I did get results when I mentioned the service bulletin posted here. After the lifters the service advisor wasn't sure what to do but I asked if they could escalate the issue and he spoke with a tech who knew exactly what to do. Fingers crossed that the head does the trick! |
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