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V10 MHD Map Discussion
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01-25-2022, 12:38 AM | #23 | |
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Right, and look at the calculation. It's almost certainly actually some lambda value that is conveniently multiplied by 14.7 in the XDF (gas stoich) for some reason or another. It should really just be lambda imo, unless there's another reason I'm overlooking. Sure, lambda will be similar across all fuel types, but actual AFR (not whatever calculation is in the XDF) will change accordingly. 14.7AFR on e40 would be terrifyingly lean under any meaningful load. I hope this makes sense |
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01-25-2022, 01:17 AM | #24 | |
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I mean a lambda target of 1 is fine, no matters if you run gasoline or ethanol. EDIT: I guess the calculation on the XDF is for tuning convenience, to display values in AFR in the table
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Last edited by studio54; 01-25-2022 at 01:28 AM.. |
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01-25-2022, 08:52 AM | #25 |
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studion54, ab987, the AFR table in tunerpro is scaled for gasoline. There is a fuel scalar table that puts more or less fuel depending on the stoichometric.
For example, one can target afr=12.5 in tuner pro which is actually lambda=0.85 (for any fuel) But to get lamda=0.85, one has to inject more fuel for e85 than gasoline due to the difference in stoicho. This is where the fuel scalar tables help. Technically, the short term fuel trims stft will try to cover this difference but if the load is high they can max out. The proper way to do it is put higher scalar values in the fuel scalar table to compensate for the stoicho. Hence running a racefuel is different than ethanol blend if the stoichometric ratios are different.
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01-25-2022, 09:11 AM | #26 | |
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What I'm trying to point out here is that this is the ONLY platform I've ever seen that irresponsibly treats lambda as AFR. For an unsuspecting tuner, they may tune an ethanol car to run way too rich despite giving normal ethanol lambda values, and for users, they may see that AFR targets are the same so that must mean they can interchangeably run fuels with different energy densities on the same tune. |
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01-25-2022, 09:59 AM | #27 | |
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Yep, I think it's because of the way the XDF is written, you can remove the *14.7 from the equation and probably get a lambda tables instead of these AFR calculated with stoich gasoline.
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01-25-2022, 10:23 AM | #28 | |
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I believe they are absolutely lambda tables, and somebody incorrectly decided it was equivalent to AFR and added that multiplication factor. Again, don't know who or why they did that. |
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01-25-2022, 10:40 AM | #29 | |
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I ran E30 with 96% liquid bioethanol for fireplaces I bought at the DIY store, but I am not confident with it, it was just to reduce my CO emissions for the test. (And it's not cheap !) However I believe that if you blend like half a tank (20-25 liters) of 91oct with two strong octane boosters bottle, maybe you can reach close to race gas octane rating but not sure. Probably safer to stick with a recent Stage 2+ with 95oct map if I want to do a one shot blend with octane booster for fun
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01-25-2022, 01:45 PM | #30 | |
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01-27-2022, 03:29 PM | #31 |
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The problem with V5 e40 is not everyone wants desensitized knock tables on an all around ots map and not everyone will run e40 on the stock lpfp. By the time you get a lpfp upgrade you might as well just get a custom tune with a tmap. Desensitized knock is not as much of a problem when the tune is made for your car specifically.
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01-27-2022, 03:30 PM | #32 |
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I got 393whp on virtual dyno with v10 stage 2+ in 3rd gear on 93 with a bottle of octane booster on my xi. I added it and it fixed my timing corrections. I stopped the pull at 6000. The e50 map on v10 is probably crazy.
Last edited by syntax; 01-27-2022 at 03:36 PM.. |
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01-27-2022, 05:33 PM | #33 | |
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When I had stock turbos I loved that V5 E40 stage 2+ map...it was nuts!! I ran it for a long time, did tons of logs, and never had any issues. Honestly....if it was "dangerous", MHD wouldn't even still have it as an option. The reason they kept it is because it rocks!! 👍 |
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01-27-2022, 06:16 PM | #34 |
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Shame that the Motiv FlexFuel kit has shortcomings and isn't supported by Ken anymore, I have E50 in the tank now but am stuck on the V9 flex map, otherwise I'd try both and let you know how they compare
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01-27-2022, 06:40 PM | #35 |
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Tomorrow I'll probably test v10 e30 as I never used e85 before. Will do minor pulls starting out to test timing corrections and stock lpfp psi if it's good I'll send it and show a picture of my virtual dyno results
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01-27-2022, 06:47 PM | #36 |
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Definitely make sure LPFP is good on 93 before trying ethanol, and most pumps this time of year are somewhere in the E65 range (at least in the south) so it would be a good idea to measure content first
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01-29-2022, 08:36 AM | #37 |
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01-29-2022, 05:26 PM | #38 |
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As I understand it from Ken, boost cannot be different based on ethanol content and instead timing is the only thing that can change, which is limiting. The way the unit is designed also can lead to reporting 100% ethanol content if there is voltage feedback, which would at the very least leave you stranded if not cause some damage. Reflex is the method of choice nowadays.
For that reason he generally doesn't do MHD flex fuel for custom tunes and doesn't even support it for OTS maps anymore by the looks of it. |
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01-29-2022, 05:55 PM | #39 | |
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01-29-2022, 06:11 PM | #40 |
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I will gladly do the flex fuel conversion with an upgraded lpfp if it isn't difficult to install or expensive. I don't think the gambling of ethanol content with no sensor or flex fuel module will be good for the stock pump and shit in the long term. I will also go with a custom tune.
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01-29-2022, 06:49 PM | #41 | |
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01-31-2022, 11:25 AM | #42 |
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Here's a nice roll race in my 335xi against a 400whp audi s4 with upgraded Ko4 Turbos. My car is fbo with mhd v10 e30. His exhaust has a little leak, thats the supercharger sound Lol. Sorry for the bad video quality https://streamable.com/a1wows
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01-31-2022, 12:24 PM | #43 | |
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01-31-2022, 12:52 PM | #44 | |
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