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      07-23-2013, 02:21 PM   #155
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I mean this GZ is truly a case, what kinda guy on trial for murder helps a family out of a car wreck?
He is always looking for action, putting himself in the middle things, trying to be a hero - looking for the bogeyman.
This kind of guy is dangerous, to himself, some would call him a hero.
This guy is controversy.
When you have a guy so 'morally charged' but not too smart - not dumb either, he is able to understand laws to his advantage, can you not expect everything this guy touches to either end in a life saved or a guy dead?
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      07-23-2013, 02:24 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
because you are ignoring a very important fact
yes it is legal to follow someone in this country
BUT when you join the neighborhood watch in that community, they also have rules and regulations, that you also HAVE to follow.
The president of the homeowners association said that residents in the neighborhood watch were told to "stay away" from suspicious people and call the police.
GZ did not follow those directions.
I am not picking and choosing, I am simply looking at one aspect that all of you are ignoring to look at, because you all feel he's innocent, and if you consider this, it really weakens your argument.




and you don't think GZ was face to face with TM?
so did GZ shoot TM in the back?

fine if you don't like the word confrontation
but their "meeting" or "coming together" etc was not initiated by TM
TM was walking in the street, unaware of GZ even being in the area
GZ is the one that noticed TM and started the path of events that lead to this

and that to me at least, is why you can't really use the self defense card either.
if I am really trying to protect my ass, I don't go and follow someone who looks suspicious
ESPECIALLY when I have agreed to simply report any suspicious activity and to not take action, when I signed up for the neighborhood watch.
Here ya go. I'm willing to bet that most haven't even read this. It's the transcript from Zimmerman's police call. I bolded some interesting FACTS for you to speculate on. As far as my speculation, these aren't what i would call words that are consistent with what someone who was intent on murdering the person they're telling the cops about might say.

If you asked me, i would say that he called the cops after spotting TM. TM took offense to him following him. Actually approached GZ then started running. GZ followed him until the dispatcher said not to. I support this argument with his words as he was telling the Dispatch his name. Where he said, "George....He Ran". As in i don't see him anymore. This is also supported when he was asked for his address when he says, "i don't know where this kid is." He seems very willing to meet with the cops, give him his phone number, addresses, etc.... Just doesn't add up in my eyes to someone who is intent on finding and killing that person he just called the cops about.

Also, note that the dispatcher said "We don't NEED you to do that" about following TM. It wasn't STOP following or DON'T follow him. It was we don't need you to do that.

Quote:
Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ...

Zimmerman: Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

Dispatcher: OK, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?

Zimmerman: He looks black.


Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?

Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring...

Dispatcher: OK, he's just walking around the area...

Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.

Dispatcher: OK...

Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.

Dispatcher: OK—you said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111?

Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse...

Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse, do you know what the—he's near the clubhouse right now?

Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me.

Dispatcher: OK.

Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.

Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks?

Zimmerman: He's got button on his shirt, late teens.

Dispatcher: Late teens ok.

Zimmerman: Somethings wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out, he's got something in his hands, I don't know what his deal is.

Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything ok

Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?

Dispatcher: Yeah we've got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else.

Zimmerman: Okay. These assholes they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse you come straight in and make a left. Actually you would go past the clubhouse.

Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?

Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. Shit he's running.

Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.

Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?

Zimmerman: The back entrance...fucking [unintelligible]

Dispatcher: Are you following him?

Zimmerman: Yeah

Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.

Zimmerman: Ok

Dispatcher: Alright sir what is your name?

Zimmerman: George...He ran.

Dispatcher: Alright George what's your last name?

Zimmerman: Zimmerman

Dispatcher: And George what's the phone number you're calling from?

Zimmerman: [xxx-xxx-xxxx]

Dispatcher: Alright George we do have them on the way, do you want to meet with the
officer when they get out there?

Zimmerman: Alright, where you going to meet with them at?

Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, that’s my truck...[unintelligible]

Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?

Zimmerman: I don’t know, it’s a cut through so I don’t know the address.

Dispatcher: Okay do you live in the area?

Zimmerman: Yeah, I...[unintelligible]

Dispatcher: What’s your apartment number?

Zimmerman: It’s a home it’s 1950, oh crap I don’t want to give it all out, I don’t know where this kid is.

Dispatcher: Okay do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?

Zimmerman: Yeah that’s fine.

Dispatcher: Alright George, I’ll let them know to meet you around there okay?

Zimmerman: Actually could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at?

Dispatcher: Okay, yeah that’s no problem.

Zimmerman: Should I give you my number or you got it?

Dispatcher: Yeah I got it [xxx-xxx-xxxx]

Zimmerman: Yeah you got it.


Dispatcher: Okay no problem, I’ll let them know to call you when you’re in the area.

Zimmerman: Thanks.

Dispatcher: You’re welcome.
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      07-23-2013, 02:26 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
in that case, what's the problem of using political pressure?
if the guys innocent "political pressure" doesn't change the outcome no?
Cause it creates more devision within our society. And I have to fucking pay for it!

That's the problem with it.
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      07-23-2013, 02:28 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimlock View Post
TM sounds like an angry, confrontation-seeking youth with a chip on his shoulder.
GZ sounds like an ignorant (hence, racist), trouble-seeking good-for-nothing.
In other words - they deserved each other.
But GZ had a one-up on TM, he was older and knew the law - so he (unconsciously) crafted this scenario where he could more or less entrap a rash youth to attack him so he could satisfy whatever his sick mind was looking for.
But ofcourse GZ is not off the hook at all.. can you imagine the reacts he would get from every (not even black) person who thinks he is a murderer? That is if he is brave enough to leave the house.. maybe he can find a good hispanic enclave where homies have his back.
(not meant to be racially inflamatory.. my point, if I have one, don't be a TM and don't be a GZ)
Read the transcripts and see if it changes what you wrote.
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      07-23-2013, 02:36 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tonka View Post
Read the transcripts and see if it changes what you wrote.
I read TM took a look at GZ then ran off, and GZ followed him.
Setting the stage for the confrontation later (I don't know if it's covered).. but it still leads to the same thing, GZ following TM and TM taking exception to it.. TM acts as you would expect, is he not allowed to be in a bad mood and take exception to being followed? TM kept following/harrassing him until he got mad and the fight brought out
So was that TM 'attacked' GZ or was there a fight? GZ was going to keep riding his asshole until he bent over or got mad as hell..

GZ = master douche of the universe
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      07-23-2013, 02:39 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimlock View Post
I read TM took a look at GZ then ran off, and GZ followed him.
Setting the stage for the confrontation later (I don't know if it's covered).. but it still leads to the same thing, GZ following TM and TM taking exception to it.. TM acts as you would expect, is he not allowed to be in a bad mood and take exception to being followed? TM kept following/harrassing him until he got mad and the fight brought out
So was that TM 'attacked' GZ or was there a fight? GZ was going to keep riding his asshole until he bent over or got mad as hell..

GZ = master douche of the universe
It would have been different if he ran away, or turned around and called Zimmerman a douchebag fatass for following him. That's not what happened though. Unless you were there and can shed some light on the situation?
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      07-23-2013, 02:44 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar View Post
It would have been different if he ran away, or turned around and called Zimmerman a douchebag fatass for following him. That's not what happened though. Unless you were there and can shed some light on the situation?
TM already gave him the hood stare-down and ol Georgy boy probably got turned on plus he wanted to beat some black ass so that's why he continued to follow him
j/k
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      07-23-2013, 02:48 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimlock View Post
TM already gave him the hood stare-down and ol Georgy boy probably got turned on plus he wanted to beat some black ass so that's why he continued to follow him
j/k
Ew...

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      07-23-2013, 02:51 PM   #163
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You're right. He should do just what the rest of us do to help our communities - absolutely nothing.

The real problem is that people don't want to think about why a "profile" exists in the first place. If I am out driving with a racing number on the side of my car and wearing a racing jumpsuit with racing shoes on and get pulled over out of a crowd of other vehicles, I should not be shocked. I look like a car that drives fast and I fit the profile of a speeder. It's reality.

I've resisted mentioning this up to this point but I am the president of my rental condo HOA and have to deal with thefts from time to time. It's usually a stolen car or stolen wheels. When the police spoke to me about the incidents, they encouraged me to report anyone that I did not recognize or seemed to be acting suspicious. It's a fairly isolated property that can only be accessed via a single bridge so not a place you would pass through. I have a dog and would be outside constantly walking with her. There were a few instances of people walking aimlessly through the neighborhood without a purpose and in random directions. When they would see me walking with the dog and paying attention to them, they would typically scurry away. If they walked further into the property I would call the police. They would always show right up but the people would be gone. I'm not naive. I know when someone is "shopping" and when someone is walking home or walking their dog. These guys did not exhibit any of that behavior.

What I will add is that people of any community absolutely LOVE to complain and LOVE to tell you that you're not doing a good enough job but when the time comes for volunteers to help improve the community, their hands are never raised. Many of the people here fall into the "inactive complainer" category. I guess you would just drive by that overturned car and do nothing but that is not how some of us are wired. You can criticize GZ all you want, but at the end of the day, I truly believe that he was trying to help his community and none of the evidence in court pointed to anything other than that. He was also smart enough to realize that this type of voluntary service could also put him in harms way so he armed himself. I just wonder how some of you would feel if TM actually killed GZ.
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      07-23-2013, 02:56 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar View Post
Ew...

Hope I haven't offended too many ppl..
But seriously, he beat his wife, resisted arrest, allegedly molested his cousin .. repressed rage much?
Okay, I should shut up
I seemed to have become Shah - the forum was missing his shit-stirring
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      07-23-2013, 03:07 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
so according to you I can ignore all rules and regulations
but simply choose to follow the law?
No, according to me, you don't go to prison for murder for not following rules and regulations of a home owners association. If your goal was to get him evicted from his home, then the rules of the home owners association would now be relevant. But you aren't so they are not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
I've love to see how you bend over backwards to please your home owners association to follow their "rules" or your working hour rules are your job, etc
Well I'm not part of a home owners association and my current job is very flexible. So, unfortunately for you, you don't get to see either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
and according to you, I can join any organization, and even though I agreed to follow their rules, I can simply throw all those rules out the window, just as soon as I am accepted ?
You can do whatever you like. If you join an organization and don't follow their rules, they have every right to remove you from their organization. None of this is relevant to the Zimmerman/TM trial. He wasn't on trial for disobeying Home Owner Association guidelines. He was on trial for murder. I'm not sure how this isn't a glaringly obvious fact.
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      07-23-2013, 03:08 PM   #166
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And TM was tweeting about how good of a fighter he was becoming and about smoking weed and was even trying to sell a handgun at one point. Neither one is an angel here but hey... it's Florida.

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      07-23-2013, 03:16 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
And TM was tweeting about how good of a fighter he was becoming and about smoking weed and was even trying to sell a handgun at one point. Neither one is an angel here but hey... it's Florida.

NOW i'm offended!!
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      07-23-2013, 03:21 PM   #168
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This is not related, but too funny to pass
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      07-23-2013, 03:24 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
And TM was tweeting about how good of a fighter he was becoming and about smoking weed and was even trying to sell a handgun at one point. Neither one is an angel here but hey... it's Florida.

Yeah such a good fighter.. I think he meant good shooter.. Oops.
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      07-23-2013, 03:31 PM   #170
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      07-23-2013, 04:06 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tonka View Post
I'm more concerned about the fact that they released him based on evidence showing it was self defense and then arrested him 50 days later due to political pressure to try the case; when everyone, including the D,A knew this was a no win case.
Indeed. It was a version of a lynching that thankfully didn't come to pass. There wasn't enough evidence for law enforcement and, no matter how much people don't like that, the assessment was borne out by the jury.
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      07-24-2013, 03:28 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devious21 View Post
No, according to me, you don't go to prison for murder for not following rules and regulations of a home owners association. If your goal was to get him evicted from his home, then the rules of the home owners association would now be relevant. But you aren't so they are not.



Well I'm not part of a home owners association and my current job is very flexible. So, unfortunately for you, you don't get to see either.



You can do whatever you like. If you join an organization and don't follow their rules, they have every right to remove you from their organization. None of this is relevant to the Zimmerman/TM trial. He wasn't on trial for disobeying Home Owner Association guidelines. He was on trial for murder. I'm not sure how this isn't a glaringly obvious fact.
everything I pointed out was supposed to show motive
but I think that went totally above your head

this wasn't a "good guy" that got caught in a bad situation
this was a wanna be cop, that was racist, and managed to kill a black man
and got off because the jury were total dumb asses
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      07-24-2013, 03:32 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by Mr Tonka View Post
Cause it creates more devision within our society. And I have to fucking pay for it!

That's the problem with it.
there will always be division in the states
it comes part and parcel with the whole melting pot concept
you are not all white
you are not all black
you have a mix of races, cultures, languages

maybe of justice was served this time, things would have been better.
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      07-24-2013, 03:33 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
And TM was tweeting about how good of a fighter he was becoming and about smoking weed and was even trying to sell a handgun at one point. Neither one is an angel here but hey... it's Florida.

TM was a dumb teenager
GZ is not a teenager anymore, he should have known better
so you can't really equate them
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      07-24-2013, 03:35 PM   #175
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      07-24-2013, 04:18 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
TM was a dumb teenager
GZ is not a teenager anymore, he should have known better
so you can't really equate them
Thus far, we can confirm that TM was using illegal drugs by his own admission, commiting several assaults by his own admission, and trying to sell an illegal handgun. A dumb teenager smashes mailboxes with his friends. A criminal commits assaults and sells illegal handguns. The worst you can find on GZ is that he possibly violated the HOA rules.

GZ should know better than to what? He knew the laws of his country and his state and followed them perfectly. This was confirmed initially by the police and later by a jury of his peers.
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