[JonEQuest]

I am not sure if my DSC pump motor is bad. I am getting the trifecta lights and I do get the 2 errors for the pump but want to know if there is a way to manually test the pump motor with INPA or some other way to see if that is it. I am trying to avoid have to bleed the whole system unnecessarily otherwise I would just pull the DSC out and take the motor apart.

[Sensible_]

Originally Posted by JonEQuest

I am not sure if my DSC pump motor is bad. I am getting the trifecta lights and I do get the 2 errors for the pump but want to know if there is a way to manually test the pump motor with INPA or some other way to see if that is it. I am trying to avoid have to bleed the whole system unnecessarily otherwise I would just pull the DSC out and take the motor apart.

What are the fault codes?

Taking the motor apart is not an easy job. Best (cheapest) thing to do is to buy a compatible newer used DSC with pump. Then swap your old pump with the new one.

No coding required. Just bleed and perform the DSC Adjustment in Rheingold.

[JonEQuest]

Originally Posted by Sensible_

What are the fault codes?

Taking the motor apart is not an easy job. Best (cheapest) thing to do is to buy a compatible newer used DSC with pump. Then swap your old pump with the new one.

No coding required. Just bleed and perform the DSC Adjustment in Rheingold.

Thank you for the response. it actually doesn't look that hard to take the motor apart and release the brushes if that's what's wrong. from a YouTube video I looked at it seems like that is probably the common cause. DC brush motors are notorious for sticking brushes. the thing is I don't even know if that part is bad or not. I am getting two codes of pump failure. I know that it likely is the pump motor. I would like to know if there's a test I can do that should trigger the pump to run and if I don't hear it running I know it's bad. I just hate doing a total bleed of a brake system if I don't have to. I also don't have rheingold.

[JonEQuest]

Originally Posted by JonEQuest

Thank you for the response. it actually doesn't look that hard to take the motor apart and release the brushes if that's what's wrong. from a YouTube video I looked at it seems like that is probably the common cause. DC brush motors are notorious for sticking brushes. the thing is I don't even know if that part is bad or not. I am getting two codes of pump failure. I know that it likely is the pump motor. I would like to know if there's a test I can do that should trigger the pump to run and if I don't hear it running I know it's bad. I just hate doing a total bleed of a brake system if I don't have to. I also don't have rheingold.

funny thing is I actually have a 2007 identical parts car to my 2008. the car was trashed by past owners but does have 75000 miles. so if I really needed another one I could take it off of that car.

[Sensible_]

Originally Posted by JonEQuest

Thank you for the response. it actually doesn't look that hard to take the motor apart and release the brushes if that's what's wrong. from a YouTube video I looked at it seems like that is probably the common cause. DC brush motors are notorious for sticking brushes. the thing is I don't even know if that part is bad or not. I am getting two codes of pump failure. I know that it likely is the pump motor. I would like to know if there's a test I can do that should trigger the pump to run and if I don't hear it running I know it's bad. I just hate doing a total bleed of a brake system if I don't have to. I also don't have rheingold.

What are the fault codes?

Download ISTA D Rheingold and perform the DSC Adjustment. It's free. Go to the bimmergeeks website.

If it fails, the pump is bad.

Good luck with the replacement.

[JonEQuest]

Originally Posted by Sensible_

What are the fault codes?

Download ISTA D Rheingold and perform the DSC Adjustment. It's free. Go to the bimmergeeks website.

If it fails, the pump is bad.

Good luck with the replacement.

I think I started to download ISTA. I think that's the one that's a huge download right? I remember hearing that that was a very easy tool to use.

One more thing, I just took apart my steering angle sensor to clean/check it and I did figure out how (I think) to get to steering calibration done in INPA. I did that and on the analog screen it shows 0 or -1 which should be close. I did notice that another reading called "offset" (2nd on the right) is still out of the middle range to one side. Not sure what to do about that.

[Sensible_]

If you don't wish to download ISTA D (it's not so big - ISTA P is the big one) then use Tool32 and run the job lenkwinkel dsc abgleichen.

Make sure the wheels are perfectly straight when you perform the Steering angle reset.

[JonEQuest]

Originally Posted by Sensible_

If you don't wish to download ISTA D (it's not so big - ISTA P is the big one) then use Tool32 and run the job lenkwinkel dsc abgleichen.

Make sure the wheels are perfectly straight when you perform the Steering angle reset.

I did that about 10 times with tool32 last night but it didn't solve my blinker problem and the "offset" is still off.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by JonEQuest

I am not sure if my DSC pump motor is bad. I am getting the trifecta lights and I do get the 2 errors for the pump but want to know if there is a way to manually test the pump motor with INPA or some other way to see if that is it.

Your screens in INPA for 335i and mine for 328xi are probably different, as xi models have DSC/DXC, but I will describe what INPA appears to be able to do when connected to the DXC 90 Module (AWD on xi models).

I cannot Activate the Pump Motor using F6, Activations (Steuern), but I can see the following functions which may be relevant to pump diagnosis using F5 (Status), F1 (Analog Inputs), F2 (Sensors):

1) Pressure ACC VA, -10 to 200 Bar range
2) Voltage at Valve Relay
3) Brake Pressure, -10 to 200 Bar range
4) Pressure ACC HA, -10 to 200 Bar range
5) Pump Motor Voltage

I have NOT had any occasion to use that screen, and don't know what the German Abbreviations "ACC VA" & "ACC HA" stand for, but my SWAG would be that the "V" in VA stands for Vorne/Front and "H" stands for Hinten/Rear.

ANYONE with a version that is translated to English, or who can define those abbreviations, please assist.

It would be helpful to those trying to help YOU if you would list ALL Fault Codes AND Fault Definitions (from INPA) that are/were saved in the DSC Memory, along with any applicable Freeze Frame Data. Sensible asked for those (TWICE ;-)

BTW, the most common cause of the "Trifecta" is a bad Wheel Speed Sensor signal. Have you used INPA F5, F1, F1 (Wheel Speed) to see sensor signals for each of the wheels?

George

[JonEQuest]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Your screens in INPA for 335i and mine for 328xi are probably different, as xi models have DSC/DXC, but I will describe what INPA appears to be able to do when connected to the DXC 90 Module (AWD on xi models).

I cannot Activate the Pump Motor using F6, Activations (Steuern), but I can see the following functions which may be relevant to pump diagnosis using F5 (Status), F1 (Analog Inputs), F2 (Sensors):

1) Pressure ACC VA, -10 to 200 Bar range
2) Voltage at Valve Relay
3) Brake Pressure, -10 to 200 Bar range
4) Pressure ACC HA, -10 to 200 Bar range
5) Pump Motor Voltage

I have NOT had any occasion to use that screen, and don't know what the German Abbreviations "ACC VA" & "ACC HA" stand for, but my SWAG would be that the "V" in VA stands for Vorne/Front and "H" stands for Hinten/Rear.

ANYONE with a version that is translated to English, or who can define those abbreviations, please assist.

It would be helpful to those trying to help YOU if you would list ALL Fault Codes AND Fault Definitions (from INPA) that are/were saved in the DSC Memory, along with any applicable Freeze Frame Data. Sensible asked for those (TWICE ;-)

BTW, the most common cause of the "Trifecta" is a bad Wheel Speed Sensor signal. Have you used INPA F5, F1, F1 (Wheel Speed) to see sensor signals for each of the wheels?

George

First thanks for the help.
One of the faults was 5DF0 "Pumpenmotor Defekt" . I took a sceen shot of that one with my phone. I will look again to see what the other code is. I will also check my wheel speed sensors in the screen you described. I think I was in that at one time. I assume I need to be driving while looking at that one and look for one not responding or maybe acting erratic?

[Sensible_]

You usually get 5DF0 and 5DF1 together. More than likely the pump is defective.

I can only tell you so many times. So I'll try for the final time in the hope you see the light

1. Download ISTA D from Bimmer Geeks for free.
2. Install ISTA D
3. Replace pump or repair it. You don't need to replace the DSC module.
4. Perform Steering angle Adjustment in ISTA D. This should correct offset if everything is aligned. Wheels / steering wheel.
5. Perform DSC Adjustment in ISTA D
6. Bleed system.
7. Erase any faults

It's true wheel speed sensor can cause similar faults. But in my experience as soon as you get 5DF0. It's the ABS pump. It's very very very common. I've replaced mine twice so far.(170,000miles).

If that fails, I'd replace Steering angle sensor.

[JonEQuest]

Originally Posted by Sensible_

You usually get 5DF0 and 5DF1 together. More than likely the pump is defective.

I can only tell you so many times. So I'll try for the final time in the hope you see the light

1. Download ISTA D from Bimmer Geeks for free.
2. Install ISTA D
3. Replace pump or repair it. You don't need to replace the DSC module.
4. Perform Steering angle Adjustment in ISTA D. This should correct offset if everything is aligned. Wheels / steering wheel.
5. Perform DSC Adjustment in ISTA D
6. Bleed system.
7. Erase any faults

It's true wheel speed sensor can cause similar faults. But in my experience as soon as you get 5DF0. It's the ABS pump. It's very very very common. I've replaced mine twice so far.(170,000miles).

If that fails, I'd replace Steering angle sensor.

Once again I appreciate the help. That was the other code I got. I also agree that from what I have learned recently it is likely bad DSC motor (probably stuck brushes) . What is weird is that this problem only appeared after I put the car back together from doing a total drivetrain swap. Other factors are that I found the headlight arm on the wishbone was very loose. After putting that back right the problem went away for a while. I replaced all 4 rotors, pads and sensors and cleaned and painted calipers last month. I also just replaced both complete strut spring assemblies, both wishbones and the sway bar end links Sunday. I actually made things worse for me by pulling the steering angle sensor to check and clean it since I lost blinker turn off. I have "improved" so many things lately it just makes troubleshooting a bit more difficult. I will recalibrate with ISTA and then probably pull the DSC motor next. This car is a project for me. I also need to replace two transmission seals and the pan filter. Thank God this is not a daily driver for me.

[Sensible_]

Originally Posted by JonEQuest

Once again I appreciate the help. That was the other code I got. I also agree that from what I have learned recently it is likely bad DSC motor (probably stuck brushes) . What is weird is that this problem only appeared after I put the car back together from doing a total drivetrain swap. Other factors are that I found the headlight arm on the wishbone was very loose. After putting that back right the problem went away for a while. I replaced all 4 rotors, pads and sensors and cleaned and painted calipers last month. I also just replaced both complete strut spring assemblies, both wishbones and the sway bar end links Sunday. I actually made things worse for me by pulling the steering angle sensor to check and clean it since I lost blinker turn off. I have "improved" so many things lately it just makes troubleshooting a bit more difficult. I will recalibrate with ISTA and then probably pull the DSC motor next. This car is a project for me. I also need to replace two transmission seals and the pan filter. Thank God this is not a daily driver for me.

Ok, just to add. Any work on the front geometry should have an alignment performed prior to recalibration of Steering angle sensor.

[JonEQuest]

Originally Posted by Sensible_

Ok, just to add. Any work on the front geometry should have an alignment performed prior to recalibration of Steering angle sensor.

I agree. I held off on getting an alignment until replacing those parts. The chassis has 157,000 miles and the struts were leaking oil so they were all ready to be replaced. The car doesn't clunk over bumps anymore so it is definitely better.

[JonEQuest]

Originally Posted by JonEQuest

I agree. I held off on getting an alignment until replacing those parts. The chassis has 157,000 miles and the struts were leaking oil so they were all ready to be replaced. The car doesn't clunk over bumps anymore so it is definitely better.

I swapped out my DSC motor with one from my 75k mile parts car that didnt have DSC errors when it was together. I kept the original module from my car to avoid having to code a "new" one and put it on the other motor. I then manually bled the 4 wheels until new fluid came out and the brakes feel fine again when I test drove it. I have ISTA D now and have tried to recalibrate the DSC but it still fails with codes 005DD0, 005DF0 & 005DF1. When I clear codes the ABS light goes off and I am down to just the 005DD0 code (Hydraulic unit: Adjustment, DSC unit valves). As soon as I start the car I get all 3 codes again. Now that I got INST-D finally installed I tried to run the bleeding proceedure and it instantly errors. It seems that my motor is not able to run. I did the voltage test and it passed and the module is yellow and can be communicated with. Is it likely that the actual control unit is bad instead of the common DC motor only problem? I guess I can remove the DSC unit again and try to bench test the DC motor which I wish I had done the other day. But before I have to 4 wheel bleed my whole car again I got to ask, am I doing something wrong?

[Sensible_]

Originally Posted by JonEQuest

I swapped out my DSC motor with one from my 75k mile parts car that didnt have DSC errors when it was together. I kept the original module from my car to avoid having to code a "new" one and put it on the other motor. I then manually bled the 4 wheels until new fluid came out and the brakes feel fine again when I test drove it. I have ISTA D now and have tried to recalibrate the DSC but it still fails with codes 005DD0, 005DF0 & 005DF1. When I clear codes the ABS light goes off and I am down to just the 005DD0 code (Hydraulic unit: Adjustment, DSC unit valves). As soon as I start the car I get all 3 codes again. Now that I got INST-D finally installed I tried to run the bleeding proceedure and it instantly errors. It seems that my motor is not able to run. I did the voltage test and it passed and the module is yellow and can be communicated with. Is it likely that the actual control unit is bad instead of the common DC motor only problem? I guess I can remove the DSC unit again and try to bench test the DC motor which I wish I had done the other day. But before I have to 4 wheel bleed my whole car again I got to ask, am I doing something wrong?

How many times have performed the dsc Adjustment? Sometimes it doesn't work. Try with engine running and off.

[JonEQuest]

Originally Posted by Sensible_

How many times have performed the dsc Adjustment? Sometimes it doesn't work. Try with engine running and off.

I am at my workbench now and found the problem. This motor is also intermittently bad with stuck brushes. I removed the motor and opened it up. One brush was not moving well and the other was flat out stuck. Brushes have about 90% life left. I sanded them with 1000 grit and flushed with brake cleaner. They are loose now but the bearing was on so tight that I cracked the paper this plastic on top the motor. I just glued it and am going to reassemble it and find a way to secure the motor back to the valve body.

[Sensible_]

Yes it's very typical. It's a poor design really. Good work diagnosing it!

[JonEQuest]

Originally Posted by Sensible_

Yes it's very typical. It's a poor design really. Good work diagnosing it!

I tested the motor before I took it apart. This is the plug I rigged up with two paper clips a popsicle stick and hot glue. It was able to fit down that narrow hole and plug firmly into the contacts of the motor. I knew it had bad brushes when sometimes it wouldn't start until I tapped it with a hammer.