[Schmitz]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The 325i is rated at 215 and Car and Driver cocked it at 6.1 seconds 0-60. I don't think the 328i is any quicker to 60 MPH. Either car has adequate power for street use if driven well and equipped with a manual transmission. For some reason vpup thought I was insecure about my choice of an N52, yet 8 years into my E90 ownership I opted to buy another N52-powered car, my Z4 Coupe (5.2 to 60 - prob still too slow for vpup). On my daily 80-mile commute (one way) for the past 12 years I've been driving an N52 99% of the time. If that's an indication of insecurity, then I must not sleep very well at night. LOL.

You are so insecure.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by Schmitz

It's rated 230bhp at 6500 I believe?

yes. Note I said whp.

[Schmitz]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

yes. Note I said whp.

Ha yes, correct you are!

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Schmitz

You are so insecure.

I know, I know.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by Gamb1t

There's a difference between class and crass.

Clearly the former can't be acquired by wealth... perceived or otherwise.

My buddy told me something that seems so simple, but true. He said money comes, and money goes. Sounds like a Pete the Cat book that I would read to my son.

To me, the only thing money is good for is to help upon retirement. It dawned on me, if a person played all their cards right? The best they can hope for is to have the same life when they have no job lol (my next door neighbor accomplished it, but now he has back problems and major surgery, so it's always something)

So more money, means better retirement, and there's no gain in class there, it's the same!

[TemjinX2]

Originally Posted by Gamb1t

Interesting that sounds posters take about BMW and Lexus reliability. There was an article about the z4/supra venture. Toyota rejected the n55 due to poor quality design. The B58 was thus born in order to meet Toyota's quality specifications. Over at the f30 forums, I was reading how the 340i are taking in big hp with ease. It's an over built piece of tech thanks to this joint venture.

BMW retired the n55 because it didn't meet newer euro emission standards..no point in spending money to make the n55 comply when they already have a better b58 thats more modular for cheaper manufacturing.

The chassis and b58 motor was already chosen by BMW. Toyota had some input on small design tweaks to the b58 which BMW normally does with its newer variants of its main stream engines.

if toyota uses their own gaskets...those are the gaskets all the 2nd and 3rd owner of the b58s are going to be buy lol

[TemjinX2]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Is this true, or internet myth? What I've read about the B58 is the block is shared as a modular engine type for both diesel and gasoline ignition types. A diesel engine block is designed with far more strength than a comparable gasoline block. Being the B58 is built to diesel block specification, it makes it over-built for gasoline applications?

there both close deck engines..thats about only thing they have in common.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by John 070

My buddy told me something that seems so simple, but true. He said money comes, and money goes. Sounds like a Pete the Cat book that I would read to my son.

To me, the only thing money is good for is to help upon retirement. It dawned on me, if a person played all their cards right? The best they can hope for is to have the same life when they have no job lol (my next door neighbor accomplished it, but now he has back problems and major surgery, so it's always something)

So more money, means better retirement, and there's no gain in class there, it's the same!

That's why we opt to travel with our kids while we're young-ish, instead of owning shiny new stuff. Which makes an 'insult' like "yeah, well, your car is old man" all the more comical. All new things become old eventually...

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by TemjinX2

there both close deck engines..thats about only thing they have in common.

According to wikipedia the "crankcase" is shared between the B57 diesel and B58 petrol...

"As a part of BMW's new modular engine family, the crankcase is a completely new design identical with the B57 diesel version,[10] engineered as both a gasoline and diesel engine in one common part. The closed deck crankcase is equipped with a completely new structure which can be identified by a complex array of ribs on the exhaust and intake side and an additional reinforcement frame on the oil pump side."

I'm assuming "crankcase" means the lower engine block. Wikipedia has been pretty accurate regarding BMW engine information.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

That's why we opt to travel with our kids while we're young-ish, instead of owning shiny new stuff. Which makes an 'insult' like "yeah, well, your car is old man" all the more comical. All new things become old eventually...

Yep, agreed. I started buying new cars in 1998 (all semi junk $2000 cars until then). Got a 1998, a 2007, a 2011, and finally in 2016, a used 2006. First used car that cost something substantial. Still have all 4 cars. And astounding how much the depreciation was on paper. The 4th car, 2 other people took the hits...list $65,300, and I bought for 14k, haven't had an issue in 2.5 years and 35k miles! So it's not new, but I still like it...

I wonder, if I dropped 60k on a new 330i, would it really break very soon, or could it go a long time...what's for certain is 5 years from now laughing about carfax showing its value as 17k...can you really enjoy it to the tune of 43k? Even if you were rich, is that experience worth 43k?

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by John 070

Yep, agreed. I started buying new cars in 1998 (all semi junk $2000 cars until then). Got a 1998, a 2007, a 2011, and finally in 2016, a used 2006. First used car that cost something substantial. Still have all 4 cars. And astounding how much the depreciation was on paper. The 4th car, 2 other people took the hits...list $65,300, and I bought for 14k, haven't had an issue in 2.5 years and 35k miles! So it's not new, but I still like it...

I wonder, if I dropped 60k on a new 330i, would it really break very soon, or could it go a long time...what's for certain is 5 years from now laughing about carfax showing its value as 17k...can you really enjoy it to the tune of 43k? Even if you were rich, is that experience worth 43k?

Cars are sex appeal to some people and an ego boost. To these people that attraction and the ability to say "it's new" is almost priceless.

Car companies prey on these people, but if those people are happy then I'm happy for them.

Personally, I'm not one of those people.

hass said it best, this thread was garbage to begin with and here we are citing more garbage. All this from one person's cry baby ridiculousness. For shame.

[TemjinX2]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

According to wikipedia the "crankcase" is shared between the B57 diesel and B58 petrol...

"As a part of BMW's new modular engine family, the crankcase is a completely new design identical with the B57 diesel version,[10] engineered as both a gasoline and diesel engine in one common part. The closed deck crankcase is equipped with a completely new structure which can be identified by a complex array of ribs on the exhaust and intake side and an additional reinforcement frame on the oil pump side."

I'm assuming "crankcase" means the lower engine block. Wikipedia has been pretty accurate regarding BMW engine information.

i already said they were both both closed deck which refers to the lower block design...everything else is pretty much different. you can read the engineering specs yourself

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by TemjinX2

i already said they were both both closed deck which refers to the lower block design...everything else is pretty much different. you can read the engineering specs yourself

Apparently, you're really bad at reading. Quoting the very PDFs you linked:

1.2.Modular design
Compared with the N engines, the new B engine generation demonstrates a considerably higher
number of common and interchangeable parts with the Bx7 diesel engines and the Bx8 gasoline
engines.

2.1.3. Crankcase
The crankcase is a completely new design which takes the different requirements of gasoline and
diesel engines into account in one common part.

2.5. Modular design
Due to the use of the modular design strategy, in the Bx7 and Bx8 engines, not only could numerous common and synergy parts be taken over, but a strategy of service simplification was also followed. Common parts are understood to be the use of components which are used in an unmodified form in various products, but are not standard parts.

My favorite thing, however (other than the fact that you are so very wrong), is the graphic of Legos used to depict how modular these engines are.

[TemjinX2]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

Apparently, you're really bad at reading. Quoting the very PDFs you linked:







My favorite thing, however (other than the fact that you are so very wrong), is the graphic of Legos used to depict how modular these engines are.

LOL did you stop reading after page 3? did you even look at the page after page 3?




different compression ratios, different bore and stroke...quad turbo vs single turbo. one uses petro for fuel vs diesel. can you tell me what actual parts of the engine that matter are the same on the b57 and b58 are the same?


b57


b58

[hassmaschine]

They have different bore/strokes. duh. Still the same basic blocks (they aren't shared parts, because they have different bores!), same design. They aren't as different as you make them out to be.

Past diesels were vastly different designs with basically zero shared parts. This is more like the N52 and N54 - the blocks have differences, but the basic design is identical.

[Efthreeoh]

Okay, so after all the drama over the specs, my theory remains intact that the robustness of the B58 is related to the shared engine block between the gas and diesel versions, rather than Toyota telling BMW how to design an engine.

Due to the compression ratios of diesels and the massive power stroke diesels make requires a much stronger engine block, which means the gas version is over-built and can take modification to make a lot of reliable power. So, Toyota had nothing to do with the engine design architecture to make a closed-deck design.

[hassmaschine]

Also realistically development on the B57/B58 started like 10 years ago, well before the BMW Supra was ever a thing.

[TemjinX2]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

They have different bore/strokes. duh. Still the same basic blocks (they aren't shared parts, because they have different bores!), same design. They aren't as different as you make them out to be.

Past diesels were vastly different designs with basically zero shared parts. This is more like the N52 and N54 - the blocks have differences, but the basic design is identical.

lol ok

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

Also realistically development on the B57/B58 started like 10 years ago, well before the BMW Supra was ever a thing.

Damn really that long? I know creating something takes time but 10 years? Never thought it was that long.

[TemjinX2]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Okay, so after all the drama over the specs, my theory remains intact that the robustness of the B58 is related to the shared engine block between the gas and diesel versions, rather than Toyota telling BMW how to design an engine.

Due to the compression ratios of diesels and the massive power stroke diesels make requires a much stronger engine block, which means the gas version is over-built and can take modification to make a lot of reliable power. So, Toyota had nothing to do with the engine design architecture to make a closed-deck design.

i already said toyota had a influence on minor tweaks...maybe slightly more then BMW normally would've done on coming out with a newer variant of a exisiting engine between the standard variant and higher out put variants.

BMW isn't going to make any major design changes since its going to cost too much money.

BMW just designed the b58 to be able to use a the b57 same aluminum box so they can save money...so they can just make one block instead of making two different ones, the rest is just marketing spin.

BMW already made closed deck blocks for their M cars for years, its just the first time you seen in a mass produced petrol engine. Main reason was to save cost and the side effect is a stronger lower block but then it goes back into the debate of open deck versus close deck setups.

[TemjinX2]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Damn really that long? I know creating something takes time but 10 years? Never thought it was that long.

The b58 was designed to be a replacement for the N55. the supra/z4 was up in the air in terms of development...it only happened since toyota provided the economys of scale to make financial sense to make it.

The b58 engine was BMW's off the shelf solution since they already used it in the 340i/440i's.

[Pladi]

The fact that Toyota told BMW how reliable it has to be tells you everything lool