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      05-09-2021, 08:55 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedomfries View Post
How about anaerobic sealants such as Loctite 510 or 518? Volvo uses them instead of gaskets. They only cure in the absence of air so excess sealant won't clog anything. 510 is more heat and chemical resistant while 518 actually gets stronger when exposed to oil.

https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/ca/...ctite_510.html
https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/ca/...ctite_518.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedomfries View Post
How about anaerobic sealants such as Loctite 510 or 518? Volvo uses them instead of gaskets. They only cure in the absence of air so excess sealant won't clog anything. 510 is more heat and chemical resistant while 518 actually gets stronger when exposed to oil.

https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/ca/...ctite_510.html
https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/ca/...ctite_518.html
Volvo is the king when it comes to making leak free gaskets and yes the key is Anaerobic Volvo pink sealant. I have a 97 850 Turbo and it has zero leaks from both the oil pan and valve cover. I mean zero, tight as a drum, I don't know why more companies use this technology, except maybe it has to cure before using I believe but I'm not certain
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      05-09-2021, 09:24 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mecheng77 View Post
Volvo is the king when it comes to making leak free gaskets and yes the key is Anaerobic Volvo pink sealant. I have a 97 850 Turbo and it has zero leaks from both the oil pan and valve cover. I mean zero, tight as a drum, I don't know why more companies use this technology, except maybe it has to cure before using I believe but I'm not certain
I have a '98 V70 Turbo and it doesn't leak oil.

I raised my eyebrows when I first learned that the motor was glued together -- but it does seem to work.
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      05-09-2021, 09:33 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainbearing View Post
Permatex Ultra Black would be more pliable and is what I plan to use. I also contemplated just using the RTV without the pan gasket, but will plan to use the gasket with a light coat of RTV.

Part of BMW's sealing problems may be the use of inferior rubber on these gaskets. On the OFHG for example, Uro has a premium version using Viton rubber and extra little tabs to help support the gasket (Elring one does not have these little tabs). I wonder if that Uro Premium one is made in Japan as others mentioned being the final fix. I guess the standard material BMW used might be poly-acrylates. BMW should send its engineers to Japan to study.

Here is the thread on the pan gasket and RTV:
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...&postcount=254

Viton example, made in US it says:
https://www.amazon.com/URO-Filter-Ad.../dp/B08854N8TD
Uhm the new BMW Genuine OFHG is made in Japan.
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      05-10-2021, 07:23 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92_William View Post
The main issue with these oil pan gaskets seems to be the lack of rubber in them that just degrades into nothing over time. This should help a lot, hell I think just rtv all around would be better. I would try and get a gasket that isn't elring though as I had my ofhg from them leak less than 20k after replacing it
Heat from the cats contributes to the factor of degradation quite a bit on these cars.
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      05-10-2021, 09:09 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amrazM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by E92_William View Post
The main issue with these oil pan gaskets seems to be the lack of rubber in them that just degrades into nothing over time. This should help a lot, hell I think just rtv all around would be better. I would try and get a gasket that isn't elring though as I had my ofhg from them leak less than 20k after replacing it
Heat from the cats contributes to the factor of degradation quite a bit on these cars.
That's why I fixed that by removing them too bad it was after it started leaking
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      05-11-2021, 09:26 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Shiftright View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mecheng77 View Post
Volvo is the king when it comes to making leak free gaskets and yes the key is Anaerobic Volvo pink sealant. I have a 97 850 Turbo and it has zero leaks from both the oil pan and valve cover. I mean zero, tight as a drum, I don't know why more companies use this technology, except maybe it has to cure before using I believe but I'm not certain
I have a '98 V70 Turbo and it doesn't leak oil.

I raised my eyebrows when I first learned that the motor was glued together -- but it does seem to work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Shiftright View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mecheng77 View Post
Volvo is the king when it comes to making leak free gaskets and yes the key is Anaerobic Volvo pink sealant. I have a 97 850 Turbo and it has zero leaks from both the oil pan and valve cover. I mean zero, tight as a drum, I don't know why more companies use this technology, except maybe it has to cure before using I believe but I'm not certain
I have a '98 V70 Turbo and it doesn't leak oil.

I raised my eyebrows when I first learned that the motor was glued together -- but it does seem to work.
V70 are great cars
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      05-12-2021, 12:25 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedomfries View Post
How about anaerobic sealants such as Loctite 510 or 518? Volvo uses them instead of gaskets. They only cure in the absence of air so excess sealant won't clog anything. 510 is more heat and chemical resistant while 518 actually gets stronger when exposed to oil.

https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/ca/...ctite_510.html
https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/ca/...ctite_518.html

Holy shit. Actual data being used to determine what to use to resolve a common problem?! I must be dreaming.

Good find, thanks for sharing.
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      05-15-2021, 05:28 PM   #30
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Thanks for all the info and suggestions, gonna do my xDrive pan gasket soon and really don't wanna repeat the job.

Sounds like a thin layer of any good liquid gasket on both sides of an original BMW gasket should be good for another 100k. High heat resistance seems to be what we need, these engines run hot, maybe moreso with a N51.
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      05-15-2021, 07:55 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Shiftright View Post
I have a '98 V70 Turbo and it doesn't leak oil.

I raised my eyebrows when I first learned that the motor was glued together -- but it does seem to work.
My '04 V70 non-turbo - ditto. They just very, very, very rarely leak.

On the other hand, it has a crappy transmission and is roughly 10% as fun to drive as my BMW. Win some/lose lots.
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      05-18-2021, 07:11 PM   #32
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For whatever it's worth, I found reference to Loctite 5970 with the oil pan gasket on RealOEM. It's an oil resistant silicone sealant:
Quote:
LOCTITE® SI 5970 is a silicone sealant and cures on exposure to moisture in the air to form a tough rubber gasket. The product is designed primarily for flexible flange sealing. It is ideally used where high vibration or flexing occurs. It is tack-free after just 25 min. The product can be used on machined or cast surfaces, metal, plastic or painted parts.

https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/fi/...e_si_5970.html
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...94#11137543122
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/par...&q=83190404517
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      09-02-2021, 08:46 AM   #33
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I'm about to install my gasket.
So, it sounds like a very thin layer of gasket maker just smeared on the metal part of the gasket on both sides is the way go?
I will get the Permatex Optimum Black. It's similar to Ultra Black, but specified for dissimilar metals and more flex for vibration resistance.

It's interesting that Loctite 5970 is mentioned in the parts catalogue, but not in the service manual.

On a side note, I find that many sealants/liquids specified by BMW are a fast-setting version of the available sealants, which makes sense for dealerships as they cannot wait 24 hours for it to cure before refilling fluids and get the car out of the bay.
This is also true for some bushing retaining compounds specified in the manual.
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      09-02-2021, 10:30 AM   #34
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Optimum Black is something new. Sounds like a flexible version of Ultra Black.

Ultra Black's elongation is 360%. Optimum >400%. Do look at the Right Stuff if you need to drive off immediately, with elongation at break 550%, ASTM D412.

Ultra series: https://www.permatex.com/products/ga...asket-maker-4/
Right Stuff: https://www.permatex.com/product-cat...gasket-makers/

I used Ultra Black on BOTH sides back in May. Thin coats. So far so good. This is what BMW should have used in the factory.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...&postcount=327
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      09-02-2021, 10:41 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmrb6391 View Post
Has anyone here tried using this Toyota seal in conjunction with the OE Elring oil pan gasket? I am willing to be the guinea pig.

Part Numbers:
Toyota - $16 - 0029500103
BMW - $29 - 11137548031

Attachment 2597179
Attachment 2597178Attachment 2597181
I put a bead of Ultra Black on the oil pan where the OEM gasket would go. I then pressed the OEM gasket onto the bead of Ultra Black. Last, I put another bead of Ultra Black on top of the OEM gasket. In a sense creating a sandwich with the OEM gasket in the middle. I then installed the oil pan.

Note : you should replace the oil pan sensor gasket while you are in there. That sort of goes without saying.
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      09-02-2021, 10:56 AM   #36
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Yup that was basically what I did. I applied a flatter and wider layer by holding the tube down close, using the old gasket imprint as a guide.

Ultra Black was thick enough to hold the gasket. No need for tie wraps. Do a couple of trial fits first before applying RTV.

For the oil level sensor gasket I used Ajusa 16078850. See my OPG link above.

I would change out the oil pickup tube o-ring and mounting bolts with the pan off, as mentioned in my post. I was going to RTV it shut but a spring housing protrusion would have created a smearing mess, so I left it. I should have bought the o-ring and bolts in retrospect.
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      09-02-2021, 01:32 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainbearing View Post
Yup that was basically what I did. I applied a flatter and wider layer by holding the tube down close, using the old gasket imprint as a guide.

Ultra Black was thick enough to hold the gasket. No need for tie wraps. Do a couple of trial fits first before applying RTV.

For the oil level sensor gasket I used Ajusa 16078850. See my OPG link above.

I would change out the oil pickup tube o-ring and mounting bolts with the pan off, as mentioned in my post. I was going to RTV it shut but a spring housing protrusion would have created a smearing mess, so I left it. I should have bought the o-ring and bolts in retrospect.
I hope to apply a very thin layer, so it does not push over onto the rubber sealing part of the gasket when squeezed together.

I looked at the pickup tube, but is there any reason to replace that o-ring? It's already immersed in oil pan, correct? Where would that o-ring failure show up?
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      09-02-2021, 04:14 PM   #38
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I am not sure how much of the horizontal portion of the oil pickup tube is submerged in oil while running.

My reasoning was if that o-ring's material is as bad as the oil pan gasket, valve cover gasket, oil filter housing gasket and valvetronic "football" gasket, then spending all those hours taking off and putting back the oil pan would be a good time to replace that.

If that o-ring hardened and shrank with age and heat, I would think some air would get sucked past it.
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      09-03-2021, 09:08 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan stewart View Post
I use RTV as a gasket on my race motorcycle. Less is more but it works fine. Just give it a minute to firm up before mounting and a day before running to cure.
I would never use *only* RTV as a gasket on a BMW N51/N52, the gasket must be there to prevent galvanic corrosion between the aluminum pan and magnesium bedplate. The risk of metal-to-metal contact is too high with just a thin layer of RTV.
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      09-03-2021, 05:32 PM   #40
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I was wondering about that and decided to use the oil pan gasket on hand anyway instead of just plain RTV as I originally wanted to do.

For automatics the pan is aluminum, so that might not matter. For manual transmissions as I understand the pan is steel.

Anyway the sealing on this engine is just plain awful. Those engineers ought to be sent to Japan to study.
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      09-03-2021, 10:34 PM   #41
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My manual tranny xdrive pan is aluminum.
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      09-04-2021, 08:39 PM   #42
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Have you guys had an issue with a missing bolt from the oil pan bolt kit?
I don't want to derail this discussion, so I started another thread here on this: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...php?p=27999177
Since many of you have gone through this, please chime there. Thanks.
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