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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > new to the forum with a 335d that knocks



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      02-09-2020, 12:03 PM   #1
tshandonay
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new to the forum with a 335d that knocks

Hello, I'd like to introduce myself as a new forum member with a recent purchase of a 2011 335d. You will all think I'm crazy...but I bought this car from auction without any inspection.....the price was right. (Copart out of Detroit)

I'm also the owner of a 2001 330xi and have owned a couple of e30's in the past. I'm not a great mechanic but comfortable with wrenching on my own stuff. I've really enjoyed reading the forum and learning. But difference from my e46...its so much simpler than this machine.

I had the car shipped to me and immediately saw it needed tires...the ones on it are done, the battery was done and the windshield is cracked. No biggie...only $ to fix. The more concerning thing was the presence of an engine knock. From idle right up to higher rpm. Pulled all the covers off to get access and ultimately found with a rubber hose in my ear that the noise was most obvious directly underneath the harmonic balancer at the front of the motor.

1. I pulled the belts off - knock still there
2. pulled the harmonic balancer off and the knock is gone (its not the original)
3. put it back on and it seems there is some wobble...but visually its in really good condition.
4. The passenger motor mount looks to be collapsed when comparing to the drivers side. I can move the motor by hand with not a lot of effort.
5. I am going to get an oil analysis done before I do much else to maybe get an idea what I'm working with

Any thoughts on this scenario or any further troubleshooting steps anyone might suggest? Will probably wait to get the oil analysis back before investing in any replacement parts. (and upgrades/deletes)

Here are two videos

- balancer off

- knocking with balancer on




Looking forward to being able to drive this beast and contributing to the forum.

Tim

Last edited by tshandonay; 02-09-2020 at 06:26 PM.. Reason: video content
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      02-09-2020, 12:55 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tshandonay View Post
Hello, I'd like to introduce myself as a new forum member with a recent purchase of a 2011 335d. You will all think I'm crazy...but I bought this car from auction without any inspection.....the price was right. (Copart out of Detroit)

I'm also the owner of a 2001 330xi and have owned a couple of e30's in the past. I'm not a great mechanic but comfortable with wrenching on my own stuff. I've really enjoyed reading the forum and learning. But difference from my e46...its so much simpler than this machine.

I had the car shipped to me and immediately saw it needed tires...the ones on it are done, the battery was done and the windshield is cracked. No biggie...only $ to fix. The more concerning thing was the presence of an engine knock. From idle right up to higher rpm. Pulled all the covers off to get access and ultimately found with a rubber hose in my ear that the noise was most obvious directly underneath the harmonic balancer at the front of the motor.

1. I pulled the belts off - knock still there
2. pulled the harmonic balancer off and the knock is gone (its not the original)
3. put it back on and it seems there is some wobble...but visually its in really good condition.
4. The passenger motor mount looks to be collapsed when comparing to the drivers side. I can move the motor by hand with not a lot of effort.
5. I am going to get an oil analysis done before I do much else to maybe get an idea what I'm working with

Any thoughts on this scenario or any further troubleshooting steps anyone might suggest? Will probably wait to get the oil analysis back before investing in any replacement parts. (and upgrades/deletes)

Looking forward to being able to drive this beast and contributing to the forum.

Tim
Is the harmonic dampener oem? Fluidamper? No name?

If the motor mount is collapsed then it could be making noises from the metal on metal contact.

Also any codes?
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      02-09-2020, 01:13 PM   #3
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Balancer and engine mounts are both common and simple enough to replace. Fingers crossed that's all your woes, but even if it is you should double down on the preventative maintenance!
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      02-09-2020, 02:47 PM   #4
tshandonay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RL18 View Post
Is the harmonic dampener oem? Fluidamper? No name?

If the motor mount is collapsed then it could be making noises from the metal on metal contact.

Also any codes?

Its a Corteco, not fluidamper. OEM equivalent.

only codes are related to low voltage from bad battery and having the MAF disconnected.
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      02-09-2020, 02:48 PM   #5
tshandonay
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I should add that the knocking is 100% rotational with the engine and constant.
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      02-09-2020, 03:28 PM   #6
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Pull the oil filter out and look for metal. If your crank bearings are bad, you should see copper flakes in the filter.
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      02-09-2020, 03:33 PM   #7
tshandonay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smass View Post
Pull the oil filter out and look for metal. If your crank bearings are bad, you should see copper flakes in the filter.
I thought maybe crank bearing....I don't know if removing the mass of the harmonic balancer would make crank bearing noise worse or less apparent. I've also read that a bad crank bearing doesn't knock....it more of a rumble??

Anyway....I did look at the filter and didn't see any obvious signs of metal in it. Oil analysis will hopefully rule out the bearings and I can then order motor mounts and a different harmonic balancer. Even though I can't visually find any sign of this one being deteriorated.
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      02-09-2020, 03:48 PM   #8
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A rod bearing will definitely knock...up and down with engine speed of course. That was my first thought, but when I read it went away by taking off the balancer....Hmmm...honestly not sure what to make of that.

Makes me suspect the balancer itself, but that sounds a little weird as well.
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      02-09-2020, 03:55 PM   #9
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Hey I was thinking since you had the balancer off you would have had the belt off as well. So maybe it's coming from a tensioner?

Or did you run it with balancer on and no belt?
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      02-09-2020, 03:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones68 View Post
Hey I was thinking since you had the balancer off you would have had the belt off as well. So maybe it's coming from a tensioner?
I ran it with the belts off and the balancer still on to rule out accessories and tensioner and the noise was there
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      02-09-2020, 04:26 PM   #11
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Gotchya. Well man, I'd do the same thing you are doing and try a different balancer....

Good luck - hope it works out well for you
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      02-09-2020, 06:28 PM   #12
tshandonay
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I put a couple videos on you tube if anyone wants to listen and chime in. I'm not sure how this motor is really supposed to sound.

- balancer off sounding normal?

- knocking noise

Last edited by tshandonay; 02-09-2020 at 06:28 PM.. Reason: added links to videos
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      02-09-2020, 07:15 PM   #13
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Well it does sound like a rod knock, but why that would go away without a balancer I have no idea. Hoping the new balancer fixes it for you
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      02-10-2020, 07:53 AM   #14
tshandonay
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I'm someone that just can't let go of a problem until I get it resolved. So I'm sitting at my desk thinking about this car that I somewhat recklessly purchased and I may have just put the pieces together.

I read the carfax again last night and noticed the oil pan gasket was replaced very recently at in independent garage. I've not read about the process to replace the oil pan gasket, but I'm guessing it involved supporting the motor in some way. I'm giving it about a 76% chance the the motor was jacked up or held by the harmonic balancer which resulted in it being warped or bent.

Wishful thinking?? Anyone have a spare they'd be willing to ship me?

Last edited by tshandonay; 02-10-2020 at 08:10 AM..
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      02-10-2020, 08:53 AM   #15
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The motor would be supported by it's mounts...unless there's something really different going on there. The better question might be; why did they have the oil pan off in the first place?

I don't have a spare...

Back of the balancer you have look like this?
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      02-10-2020, 08:57 AM   #16
tshandonay
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I'm not at home to look at it...but that looks like the front to me.
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      02-10-2020, 09:12 AM   #17
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Oh yeah, for sure.... doh !
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      02-10-2020, 09:16 AM   #18
tshandonay
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to answer your question...that's pretty much what it looks like. But it looks much newer.

And...I've been making some calls this morning. Waiting for the shop that serviced it to hopefully send me some information. Its not sounding positive. They're saying there was evidence of metal in the oil...which i can't see. Although its get very few miles on it since the last oil change so it may not have had enough time to accumulate any metal.

Just can't get past it quieting down with the HB removed....makes no sense if there really is bottom end damage.
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      02-10-2020, 09:43 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tshandonay View Post
I read the carfax again last night and noticed the oil pan gasket was replaced very recently at in independent garage. I've not read about the process to replace the oil pan gasket, but I'm guessing it involved supporting the motor in some way. I'm giving it about a 76% chance the the motor was jacked up or held by the harmonic balancer which resulted in it being warped or bent.
The process is usually to secure the engine from above using a support bar and then drop the subframe.
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      02-10-2020, 09:52 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tshandonay View Post
I ran it with the belts off and the balancer still on to rule out accessories and tensioner and the noise was there
Just FYI - If I'm not mistaken it's a bad idea to run any engine without the harmonic balancer. It does exactly what it says and suppresses harmonic vibrations in the crankshaft. It's possible to fracture the crankshaft if the engine is run without the balancer.

Hard to tell from the video but the engine sounds pretty much the same as mine. However if metal is found in the oil filter that is obviously a very bad sign.
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      02-10-2020, 10:01 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by kbsilver View Post
Just FYI - If I'm not mistaken it's a bad idea to run any engine without the harmonic balancer. It does exactly what it says and suppresses harmonic vibrations in the crankshaft. It's possible to fracture the crankshaft if the engine is run without the balancer.

Hard to tell from the video but the engine sounds pretty much the same as mine. However if metal is found in the oil filter that is obviously a very bad sign.
I ran it for a very short time without the balancer on and with very few revs.

I'm curious....does your engine sound like mine in the video with the knock? I've never owned a diesel before and have no reference on what these motors *should* sound like.

I'm going to have a hard time waiting for the oil analysis to come back.
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      02-10-2020, 10:19 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tshandonay View Post
I ran it for a very short time without the balancer on and with very few revs.

I'm curious....does your engine sound like mine in the video with the knock? I've never owned a diesel before and have no reference on what these motors *should* sound like.

I'm going to have a hard time waiting for the oil analysis to come back.
I believe I have a similar knock sound at idle, there are so many things that can make a rotating noise like that, especially from the valve train. It can only be heard with the hood open and my ear near the passenger side of the engine. When I rev the engine it does not louder, if anything it goes away. If you had a rod knock, when you rev the engine, you would know it. Not that it matters I have 110K miles on the car.

I had a 540iT for many years. That engine also had a dull knock at idle. Someone else traced it down to something in the Vanos system and rebuilding their vanos eliminate the knock, for a while, only to have it return. I drove the car with the idle knock from 60K miles to 150K miles and other than being annoying, had zero impact on the operation of the car. Someone else is driving it today and to my knowledge, still no issues.
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