E90Post
 


 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > PR coils - your next bolt on?



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-30-2018, 11:16 AM   #1
Taskmaster
Banned
Japan
2463
Rep
9,004
Posts

Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

PR coils - your next bolt on?

https://bmw.spool street.com/threads/vtt-precision-raceworks-coil-install-results-thread.1838/

(Remove the space )
Is this basically adding ignition advance or what?
Appreciate 0
      12-30-2018, 11:43 AM   #2
Taskmaster
Banned
Japan
2463
Rep
9,004
Posts

Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
https://bmw.spool street.com/threads/vtt-precision-raceworks-coil-install-results-thread.1838/

(Remove the space )
Is this basically adding ignition advance or what?
For the record, I don’t think they work. But...
Appreciate 0
      12-30-2018, 01:52 PM   #3
Biginboca
Colonel
Biginboca's Avatar
3760
Rep
2,738
Posts

Drives: 2009 E92 328i 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Boynton Beach, FL... USA

iTrader: (3)

What coils are those? The only n52 coils I have seen are the Plasma Direct coils and they are $1k for a set for n52:

https://store.activeautowerke.com/pr...all-bmw-models

When these coils were last discussed the consensus was everyone would be surprised if they made any difference whatsoever.
Appreciate 0
      12-30-2018, 05:12 PM   #4
PORTMOODY
Captain
Canada
141
Rep
635
Posts

Drives: Coal Roller
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Vancouver, BC

iTrader: (1)

interesting that they claim more hp but theres no dyno's in the marketing material. AA site shows $800. I guess if they last 4x as long as stock coils and you keep your car long term its not really a bad deal.
Appreciate 0
      12-30-2018, 08:45 PM   #5
rjahl
Colonel
rjahl's Avatar
996
Rep
2,287
Posts

Drives: Z4 35is
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tampa

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2012 Z4 35is  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PORTMOODY View Post
interesting that they claim more hp but theres no dyno's in the marketing material. AA site shows $800. I guess if they last 4x as long as stock coils and you keep your car long term its not really a bad deal.
Really why?

I had 205,000 miles on the original N52 coils when I swapped cars. This sounds like "snake oil" to me.
Appreciate 0
      12-30-2018, 09:23 PM   #6
PORTMOODY
Captain
Canada
141
Rep
635
Posts

Drives: Coal Roller
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Vancouver, BC

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjahl View Post
Really why?

I had 205,000 miles on the original N52 coils when I swapped cars. This sounds like "snake oil" to me.
interesting. My experience with them is they can go from about 70,000km. I assumed that was the norm. It does sound like snake oil until it can be proven. At this point the big bore throttle body is falling in the same category for me because they never responded to my request about dyno gains from the unit.

If someone is really concerned with making a product that shows benefit they will take the time to verify it.
Appreciate 0
      12-31-2018, 12:00 AM   #7
hassmaschine
Major General
United_States
3940
Rep
7,216
Posts

Drives: "NBO" 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: earth

iTrader: (0)

Snake oil. If it did half of what they say, they would already be used on production cars. For 1k, a total waste of money.

Stock coils certainly last longer than 70k miles. At 145k I have replaced one. At this rate I would have to drive several million miles to break even..
Appreciate 0
      12-31-2018, 02:32 AM   #8
PORTMOODY
Captain
Canada
141
Rep
635
Posts

Drives: Coal Roller
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Vancouver, BC

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
Snake oil. If it did half of what they say, they would already be used on production cars. For 1k, a total waste of money.

Stock coils certainly last longer than 70k miles. At 145k I have replaced one. At this rate I would have to drive several million miles to break even..
I must have just had a bad coil. Mine didn't get any where close to that.
Appreciate 0
      12-31-2018, 08:30 AM   #9
Blueeyesredpanda
Major
Blueeyesredpanda's Avatar
Canada
400
Rep
1,425
Posts

Drives: E90 / F30
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Canada

iTrader: (-2)

Using an oscilloscope you would be able to see the difference between the stock and performance coils. Some of you should test it out before making the assumption.

I'm not sure if PR coils are real stuff. But I have Okada Plasma Direct which is the same as Ignition project.
Appreciate 0
      12-31-2018, 08:32 AM   #10
PORTMOODY
Captain
Canada
141
Rep
635
Posts

Drives: Coal Roller
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Vancouver, BC

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueeyesredpanda View Post
Using an oscilloscope you would be able to see the difference between the stock and performance coils. Some of you should test it out before making the assumption.

I'm not sure if PR coils are real stuff. But I have Okada Plasma Direct which is the same as Ignition project.
Did you dyno before and after?
Appreciate 0
      12-31-2018, 08:33 AM   #11
Blueeyesredpanda
Major
Blueeyesredpanda's Avatar
Canada
400
Rep
1,425
Posts

Drives: E90 / F30
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Canada

iTrader: (-2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PORTMOODY View Post
Did you dyno before and after?
There's no awd dyno near where I live
Appreciate 0
      12-31-2018, 09:17 AM   #12
Taskmaster
Banned
Japan
2463
Rep
9,004
Posts

Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
Snake oil. If it did half of what they say, they would already be used on production cars. For 1k, a total waste of money.

Stock coils certainly last longer than 70k miles. At 145k I have replaced one. At this rate I would have to drive several million miles to break even..
These are about $495 - but yeah, I looked up more on that dyno, and they say the boost was turned up. So not apples to Apples.
Appreciate 0
      12-31-2018, 09:34 AM   #13
CTinline-six
Hoonigan
CTinline-six's Avatar
United_States
6812
Rep
3,000
Posts

Drives: '09 328i, '98 Wrangler
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Connecticut

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
Snake oil. If it did half of what they say, they would already be used on production cars. For 1k, a total waste of money.

Stock coils certainly last longer than 70k miles. At 145k I have replaced one. At this rate I would have to drive several million miles to break even..
Each car is different. My 2006 325xi has original coils at 145k miles. My 2009 328i with 37,000 miles just had a coil fail. I went to replace it and found 2 of the other coils were not original.

For the record I wouldn't pay a grand for coils though and doubt they do anything.
__________________
"Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."

-Dr. Ian Malcolm, Jurassic Park
Appreciate 0
      12-31-2018, 10:39 AM   #14
PORTMOODY
Captain
Canada
141
Rep
635
Posts

Drives: Coal Roller
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Vancouver, BC

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTinline-six View Post
Each car is different. My 2006 325xi has original coils at 145k miles. My 2009 328i with 37,000 miles just had a coil fail. I went to replace it and found 2 of the other coils were not original.

For the record I wouldn't pay a grand for coils though and doubt they do anything.
Its possible the earlier n52s had better quality coils or the later models had some sort of revision somewhere that makes the coils go bad earlier. All hypothesis. I don't know what makes a coil go bad prematurely.
Appreciate 0
      12-31-2018, 11:30 AM   #15
weehe126
Brigadier General
1156
Rep
3,179
Posts

Drives: 2017 340i
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: San Antonio

iTrader: (2)

The original link to the PR coils are for N54/N55. Once you get above 500whp stock coils pop all the time. I doubt they would work on a N51/2. The PR coils work as they are more powerful for high boost. This has been reported by a lot of people. The VTT dyno graph is questionable, but they didn't have a reason to fake the numbers.
Appreciate 1
Torgus3779.00
      01-01-2019, 12:39 AM   #16
Blueeyesredpanda
Major
Blueeyesredpanda's Avatar
Canada
400
Rep
1,425
Posts

Drives: E90 / F30
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Canada

iTrader: (-2)

Like I mentioned earlier, I cannot speak for PR coils.
But for Okada and IP coils, I think there's a misconception, they are not meant to last forever, they do fail over time due to overdue spark plugs or the coils fail just like any coils in the market.

The difference is the stock/base coil is single spark; the OKADA and IP are multi-sparks.
__________________
3IM . Okada Plasma Direct . Euro Ram Intake . AA header (Pending) . PE . 2nd Cat Delete . F30 340mm 6 pot . EBC Yellow Stuff . StopTech SS Brake Line . BMW Performance CF Strut Bar. 219M . PSS
Appreciate 0
      01-01-2019, 06:46 AM   #17
Biginboca
Colonel
Biginboca's Avatar
3760
Rep
2,738
Posts

Drives: 2009 E92 328i 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Boynton Beach, FL... USA

iTrader: (3)

So here’s some mixed reviews...

Negative:

https://bmw.spoolBLOCKEDstreet.com/t...eal-deal.1852/

*Remove “BLOCKED”

Positive:

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...38-spark-plugs
Appreciate 1
PORTMOODY140.50
      01-01-2019, 08:51 AM   #18
Blueeyesredpanda
Major
Blueeyesredpanda's Avatar
Canada
400
Rep
1,425
Posts

Drives: E90 / F30
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Canada

iTrader: (-2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
So here’s some mixed reviews...

Negative:

https://bmw.spoolBLOCKEDstreet.com/t...eal-deal.1852/

*Remove “BLOCKED”

Positive:

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...38-spark-plugs
LOL, saw the "negative" post before. I did not realize PR was the one who did the testing. Funny, my friend tested the IP vs Base coils with an oscilloscope, his graph showed a completely different result than the one PR posted. That's a pretty dirty way to steal business. I'll post the graph later
Appreciate 0
      01-01-2019, 10:10 AM   #19
Blueeyesredpanda
Major
Blueeyesredpanda's Avatar
Canada
400
Rep
1,425
Posts

Drives: E90 / F30
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Canada

iTrader: (-2)





I tried my best to translate everything, All the credits go to my friend who performed the test.
__________________
3IM . Okada Plasma Direct . Euro Ram Intake . AA header (Pending) . PE . 2nd Cat Delete . F30 340mm 6 pot . EBC Yellow Stuff . StopTech SS Brake Line . BMW Performance CF Strut Bar. 219M . PSS

Last edited by Blueeyesredpanda; 01-01-2019 at 10:16 AM..
Appreciate 0
      01-01-2019, 11:13 AM   #20
PORTMOODY
Captain
Canada
141
Rep
635
Posts

Drives: Coal Roller
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Vancouver, BC

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
So here’s some mixed reviews...

Negative:

https://bmw.spoolBLOCKEDstreet.com/t...eal-deal.1852/

*Remove “BLOCKED”

Positive:

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...38-spark-plugs
I see, the bench testing proved they were rebranded bosch coils, but that audi post is contradictory. Although, the tester in the audi thread seems to sell them as well so grain of salt required. I looked through spool street and apparently PR was going to dyno test them and that thread seemed to die too.

Last edited by PORTMOODY; 01-01-2019 at 11:26 AM..
Appreciate 0
      01-01-2019, 12:15 PM   #21
rjahl
Colonel
rjahl's Avatar
996
Rep
2,287
Posts

Drives: Z4 35is
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tampa

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2012 Z4 35is  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PORTMOODY View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
So here's some mixed reviews...

Negative:

https://bmw.spoolBLOCKEDstreet.com/t...eal-deal.1852/

*Remove "BLOCKED"

Positive:

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...38-spark-plugs
I see, the bench testing proved they were rebranded bosch coils, but that audi post is contradictory. Although, the tester in the audi thread seems to sell them as well so grain of salt required. I looked through spool street and apparently PR was going to dyno test them and that thread seemed to die too.
Ok help me out.

To update myself, I've been doing a little research on how modern ignition coils work.

I'm under the assumption that the coil is "charged " by a feed current flowing from the DME and releases a high voltage surge when the DME stops the feed current. It's a "one shot" deal. Build and release cycle.

There are segments within the DME program that call for multiple sparks per stroke but I assume these are part of a start sequence or low RPM warm up procedure. Either way, it's controlled by the DME a not the coil.

The best way to achieve a clean power stroke is through a good single spark with the correct timing and dwell. Dwell also controlled by the DME and needs to match the characteristics of the coil.

I am really trying to figure out why / how BMW screwed up the specification for the N54. It's hard to believe that it's something they can not overcome.

Found a good article for those interested.

http://dtec.net.au/Ignition%20Coil%2...alibration.htm
Appreciate 0
      01-01-2019, 12:34 PM   #22
Blueeyesredpanda
Major
Blueeyesredpanda's Avatar
Canada
400
Rep
1,425
Posts

Drives: E90 / F30
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Canada

iTrader: (-2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PORTMOODY View Post
I see, the bench testing proved they were rebranded bosch coils, but that audi post is contradictory. Although, the tester in the audi thread seems to sell them as well so grain of salt required. I looked through spool street and apparently PR was going to dyno test them and that thread seemed to die too.

Yes the OKADA uses the Bosch case, I can confirm that. But have you thought about the internal components are different than stock. Or why their coils are able to perform multi-spark.

IMO at his point it doesn't matter what PR was going to do because they pretty much lied about the bench test result in order to promote their coils. Just because one company could be selling snake oil doesn't mean the rest are

Last edited by Blueeyesredpanda; 01-01-2019 at 12:41 PM..
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:42 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST