[PhaseP]

Originally Posted by ptpending

etk show that engine cover on lci 328 same as on 330

You must be looking at European 330's and post 2006 makes. US only had 2006 330's, and they were magnesium valve cover.

[Jonas.Steffen]

Originally Posted by Fritzer

Sounds like a hydrolock to me. Depends on your insurance but that should be covered. It will probably be totaled. Try and squeeze as much as you can out of your insurance company. You might be able to get a new car + buy your old car from the wreckers auction and possibly rebuild with a new engine. If you have a sentimental attachment to it that is.

That was what I had hoped might happen for the first few days after getting the car out of the puddle, in a funny way it would have been a really good stroke of luck in a way cuz I could do the project Ive always wanted to on a busted e92 all for the price of my deductible pretty much. But my insurance really prefers not to pay out the 15-16k my 328 would have been worth from what my agent tells me. I had a DINAN style air ram inlet about 12'' from the ground or so (I hadnt put the cover on for the winter yet, I'm fucking dumb I know :/ ) and I had cyba scoops, both of which the insurance seems to want to wriggle out of some payments for. I'll just have to see, as the way that the car plunged into the water grilles in, I dont think it made a difference what I had on there, water would have killed the engine any way about it. But because of the nature of the mods I have to admit that it must look real sketchy to state farm; if the incident had been different or the water not as deep it would have been waaaay harder to drown the car without those intake mods.
The whole experience has been real humbling, I wasnt nearly afraid enough of water before. xD Ill avoid it like the plague in the future, an never forget that damn cap. Hopefully the insurance does a thorough investigation tho and pulls me through. There were like 4-5 other cars that had the exact same problem at that puddle that night, it was kinda a joke, half of us had pushed our cars out the water in costumes cuz it was the saturday before halloween, Im pretty convinced that the stock intake wouldnt have survived it. Hope insurance sees it that way

[ptpending]

Originally Posted by PhaseP

You must be looking at European 330's and post 2006 makes. US only had 2006 330's, and they were magnesium valve cover.

us 328xi lci has same etk part number of the engine cover as european 330i lci

[nsjames]

Originally Posted by Jonas.Steffen

That was what I had hoped might happen for the first few days after getting the car out of the puddle, in a funny way it would have been a really good stroke of luck in a way cuz I could do the project Ive always wanted to on a busted e92 all for the price of my deductible pretty much. But my insurance really prefers not to pay out the 15-16k my 328 would have been worth from what my agent tells me. I had a DINAN style air ram inlet about 12'' from the ground or so (I hadnt put the cover on for the winter yet, I'm fucking dumb I know :/ ) and I had cyba scoops, both of which the insurance seems to want to wriggle out of some payments for. I'll just have to see, as the way that the car plunged into the water grilles in, I dont think it made a difference what I had on there, water would have killed the engine any way about it. But because of the nature of the mods I have to admit that it must look real sketchy to state farm; if the incident had been different or the water not as deep it would have been waaaay harder to drown the car without those intake mods.
The whole experience has been real humbling, I wasnt nearly afraid enough of water before. xD Ill avoid it like the plague in the future, an never forget that damn cap. Hopefully the insurance does a thorough investigation tho and pulls me through. There were like 4-5 other cars that had the exact same problem at that puddle that night, it was kinda a joke, half of us had pushed our cars out the water in costumes cuz it was the saturday before halloween, Im pretty convinced that the stock intake wouldnt have survived it. Hope insurance sees it that way

the dinan intake leaves the factory intakes open right? The reason for that is if you submerge the lower intake hose there shouldn't be enough vacuum there to pull the water all the way into the air box. It should simply pull more air from the factory opening.

If water was above the grill, factory intakes would have eaten it too.

[nsjames]

Originally Posted by ptpending

us 328xi lci has same etk part number of the engine cover as european 330i lci

magnesium covers went away in the US. I can go take a photo of my 08 sitting in te dirve if it makes you happy.

the issue with going back to a magnesium cover from the plastic cover is that the PCV system is completely different.

It's way easier to just put the plastic cover on the longblock.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by ptpending

us 328xi lci has same etk part number of the engine cover as european 330i lci

that's because LCI 330i's also got plastic valve covers (in europe).

[Jonas.Steffen]

Originally Posted by nsjames

the dinan intake leaves the factory intakes open right? The reason for that is if you submerge the lower intake hose there shouldn't be enough vacuum there to pull the water all the way into the air box. It should simply pull more air from the factory opening.

If water was above the grill, factory intakes would have eaten it too.

Thats my thinking exactly but I dont think its a vacuum situation from the new inlet that is in question for the situation. I went in 10-15mph because I thought the road was only a foot maybe under the surface and I wanted to glide to the other side without opening the throttle at all. But the road was on a decline and the water was so deep that the nose just plunged in and Im pretty certain water just shot up past the MAF sensor faster than it could react just from the momentum and the force of water getting forced into the path of least resistance... fuckin tragedy :'(

[nsjames]

that's just how water and engines works.

There's nothing that would have stopped that, throttle blade closed or not.

I have plenty of experience with hydrolocked motors.
like pulling plugs on the side of the trail and shooting 20 foot geysers of water from engines and then driving them back home experience.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Jonas.Steffen

I had tried to discount this reliability difference as unlikely to cause me pain in the course of my plans, but is that a gross miscalculation? are these older n52s REALLY prone to this lifter tick? I guess If you had to guess, what are the odds that an engine with over 100k and no tick problems has at least 25-50k left in it?
Im looking at 328 motors and manifolds again, hoping to find something cost effective. I guess maybe I could buy one of these cheap 330s just for the manifold and chassis tho... 2500 is damn cheap for what the 330 was sold as in 2006. My only real concern is the condition of DISA motors that I can find cheap, at least that was my problem last time I tried to get serious bout the 3 stage mani swap

Thanks for the help

My N52 build date was April 14, 2006, so it is the original N52 head. The engine now 12+years later has 359,000 miles on it. All original except the ESS and typical trifecta of gaskets. The valve tick issue was nonsense.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Jonas.Steffen

That was what I had hoped might happen for the first few days after getting the car out of the puddle, in a funny way it would have been a really good stroke of luck in a way cuz I could do the project Ive always wanted to on a busted e92 all for the price of my deductible pretty much. But my insurance really prefers not to pay out the 15-16k my 328 would have been worth from what my agent tells me. I had a DINAN style air ram inlet about 12'' from the ground or so (I hadnt put the cover on for the winter yet, I'm fucking dumb I know :/ ) and I had cyba scoops, both of which the insurance seems to want to wriggle out of some payments for. I'll just have to see, as the way that the car plunged into the water grilles in, I dont think it made a difference what I had on there, water would have killed the engine any way about it. But because of the nature of the mods I have to admit that it must look real sketchy to state farm; if the incident had been different or the water not as deep it would have been waaaay harder to drown the car without those intake mods.
The whole experience has been real humbling, I wasnt nearly afraid enough of water before. xD Ill avoid it like the plague in the future, an never forget that damn cap. Hopefully the insurance does a thorough investigation tho and pulls me through. There were like 4-5 other cars that had the exact same problem at that puddle that night, it was kinda a joke, half of us had pushed our cars out the water in costumes cuz it was the saturday before halloween, Im pretty convinced that the stock intake wouldnt have survived it. Hope insurance sees it that way

If you had an open aftermarket intake, the insruance company will probably not cover the damage. They base the insurance on the factory configuration, not an owner-modified configuration. So they will not cover the damage at all and you'll have to foot the repair bill. The insurance company can easily claim the water would not have hydrolocked the engine since factory intake systems are designed to keep water ingestion from occuring (outside of completely running under water). In June this year in my Z4, I hit a flood on the road at night where the entire car (not just the tires) hydroplaned across the road. The water was so deep it actually stopped the car, and I was going 40 MPH at the time. Not a drop of water got into the engine. The engine never even shut off.

In July this year I hit a lake across the road, again at night. I hit it at 60MPH in my E90. Again the car hydroplaned across the water for about 4 seconds. Again no water in the engine. Again, the water was so deep it stopped the car. Both my cars have stock airboxes and air intakes.

[Jonas.Steffen]

Yeah the insurance is its whole own issue, but given the nature of the road and having gone down into the water it seems like they will cover the damages at least partially.
But I finally got some word from the mechanic and they got the engine running. It was at least able to rev pretty healthily and shoot a gallon of water out the exhaust. They said it had two cylinder misfires shortly after though when they tried to drive it. I think I will go to the shop tomorrow so I can talk to the techs and get a really clear idea of what is known and what still needs to be looked at. Overall though its potentially good news, the 3 stage mani conversion sounds alot cheaper after having engine swap price tags in my head for a few weeks
Those of you who have had similar problems, if it gets running again are there any long term worries I should have about water having gone throughout the exhaust system, or that it has flooded the intake manifold etc.? DISA valves maybe or a compresion problem?

UPDATE: I went to the shop today and talked to the guy who worked on my car and picked her up, drove her home. Sounds like they flushed the oil and cleaned the housing and changed the oil filter but thats about it other than new spark plugs. They drove it around and had a couple cylinder misfires but it worked again on restart, I can't remember the codes but he said the ignition coils were his best bet. Everything seems fine driving so far, engine seems to run and sound as strong as ever. I might've just gotten that lucky. I'll have to keep an eye on her and any codes for sure but I seem to have avoided the worst of the probable damage. Headlights are a bit foggy and I'll take her for a real drive tomorrow and make sure the valvetronic and everything high rev range works well, do a thorough cleaning... Fingers crossed though and she's alive! Hopefully now the real work is just the intake mani swap!

[JuniorB]

Originally Posted by Jonas.Steffen

When you say the pans and ps pumps arent interchangeable between the two, do you mean the pre-lci e90 and post-lci e92? Or do you mean the n52s made for 5er, 1er, z4 etc., that is to say, non-3ers are different from those made for 3 series.
If I understand correctly what your saying, the 3 series n52 has a certain ps pump and the 3er xi has a different oil pan from 3er manual. correct me if I dont seem to get it.

Also this lifter tick warranty would prolly be voided by the swap no?
Thanks for the help an info man

The oil pans and pumps are series related, has nothing to do with the the year, or motor. It's the same, so your e90 rwd pan, is the same as a n55 pan. Makes things simple.

[JuniorB]

Oh, and has nothing to do with transmission type!

[nsjames]

Originally Posted by Jonas.Steffen

Yeah the insurance is its whole own issue, but given the nature of the road and having gone down into the water it seems like they will cover the damages at least partially.
But I finally got some word from the mechanic and they got the engine running. It was at least able to rev pretty healthily and shoot a gallon of water out the exhaust. They said it had two cylinder misfires shortly after though when they tried to drive it. I think I will go to the shop tomorrow so I can talk to the techs and get a really clear idea of what is known and what still needs to be looked at. Overall though its potentially good news, the 3 stage mani conversion sounds alot cheaper after having engine swap price tags in my head for a few weeks
Those of you who have had similar problems, if it gets running again are there any long term worries I should have about water having gone throughout the exhaust system, or that it has flooded the intake manifold etc.? DISA valves maybe or a compresion problem?

UPDATE: I went to the shop today and talked to the guy who worked on my car and picked her up, drove her home. Sounds like they flushed the oil and cleaned the housing and changed the oil filter but thats about it other than new spark plugs. They drove it around and had a couple cylinder misfires but it worked again on restart, I can't remember the codes but he said the ignition coils were his best bet. Everything seems fine driving so far, engine seems to run and sound as strong as ever. I might've just gotten that lucky. I'll have to keep an eye on her and any codes for sure but I seem to have avoided the worst of the probable damage. Headlights are a bit foggy and I'll take her for a real drive tomorrow and make sure the valvetronic and everything high rev range works well, do a thorough cleaning... Fingers crossed though and she's alive! Hopefully now the real work is just the intake mani swap!

did they do a compression test on al the cylinders?

[PhaseP]

Originally Posted by JuniorB

Oh, and has nothing to do with transmission type!

Just curious what is the basis of your information/conviction?
I posted on this earlier on this thread there are 3 types of oil pan on an E90 N52, and even gave the part numbers. But maybe a visual presentation better works :P

[Jonas.Steffen]

Originally Posted by nsjames

did they do a compression test on al the cylinders?

No they didn't, we thought that if the engine is running smooth and the idrive doesn't detect anything then the compression would be fine. Is that not the case? I can definitely go back to my mechanic and berate him for the test lol. He seemed confident that without any codes thrown or stored it is most likely fine unless theres some electrical damage that emerges after a little mileage. I like this guy for sure but maybe I should go to a serious bmw tech for this car...

[nsjames]

well anytime you think that you've ingested water into a motor, you should do a compression test.

kind of rules out valves/broken rings.

[JuniorB]

Ya, I see the same thing.that rwd pan is showing a dipstick, which isn't available. They don't list a manual pan, there no such thing. The two pans are rwd, or xi. There are other engines which may list, like n51, and n53. I've looked into this tremendously, I have a 335 pan that I planned to use on my n54 going in an e60. The 335 ps pumps are smaller,and different mounting bosses. It's different on a pan that's made for a 5 series car. I've found over the past year while digging for answers on what compatible between all these engines. The 3 series are more common for parts than the 5 series. Real oem has always listed different part numbers for the same parts that has no physical differences.

[Terraphantm]

Originally Posted by JuniorB

Ya, I see the same thing.that rwd pan is showing a dipstick, which isn't available. They don't list a manual pan, there no such thing. The two pans are rwd, or xi. There are other engines which may list, like n51, and n53. I've looked into this tremendously, I have a 335 pan that I planned to use on my n54 going in an e60. The 335 ps pumps are smaller,and different mounting bosses. It's different on a pan that's made for a 5 series car. I've found over the past year while digging for answers on what compatible between all these engines. The 3 series are more common for parts than the 5 series. Real oem has always listed different part numbers for the same parts that has no physical differences.

Look at his ECS screenshots. The manual one is clearly steel while the auto one is aluminum. I don't know *why* they would have done it that way but they did.

You can even see the steel pan in this oil pan gasket DIY: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1180020

Might just be a cost cutting move. E60 uses the "automatic" pan regardless of transmission type.

[PhaseP]

Originally Posted by Terraphantm

Look at his ECS screenshots. The manual one is clearly steel while the auto one is aluminum. I don't know *why* they would have done it that way but they did.

I think it is a combination of cost and aluminum casting allowing bolting points for brackets that can support automatic transmission oil lines. Steel pan is stamped steel, which should be cheaper to manufacture, so if they could use it they used it. But you cannot bolt ono stamped steel without weakening it and have to take additional measures to prevent leaking wherever it is punctured.

Same reason why all AWD oil pans are aluminum casting too, regardless of transmission type: the front differential bolts on to it, and the pedestal that passenger half axle goes into. You cannot bolt onto a steel pan without leak issues plus steel pan structurally won't be strong enough to support the front drive components like that.

[PhaseP]

Originally Posted by JuniorB

Ya, I see the same thing.that rwd pan is showing a dipstick, which isn't available.

Yes but for 2006 magnesium valve cover N52 engines that dipstick hole is used as the oil return line from CCV.
The steel pan manual RWD's use have a tube welded to the pan (if they are for magnesium valve cover n52 engines), aluminum ones (auto or all XIs) have a hole that a tube or plug goes into depending on valve cover version.

They don't list a manual pan, there no such thing. The two pans are rwd, or xi.

I have listed all three with pictures, you can chose to ignore

[hassmaschine]

Yeah, auto (and xi) pans are aluminum and MT are steel. I have one of each.