[oregondonor]

Spent some time on the phone with Nick today from Musicar NW. Excited for my audio upgrade in the coming weeks! I will be posting pics and hoping they will let me capture the installation. Haven't decided on 6 channel full replacement or 4 channel rear delete.

4 channel rear delete will allow me to go with a more powerful amp with built in DSP that fits in the OEM location.

[bluewater328]

Great! Is this a question or a statement? (or both)

If you don't have PDC, I see no reason to keep the rears. Even then, there are options.

What is your current setup and what are you trying to achieve?

[ctuna]

What did they tell you they would use equipment wise?
Just wonder what they are using now?

[oregondonor]

Originally Posted by bluewater328

Great! Is this a question or a statement? (or both)

If you don't have PDC, I see no reason to keep the rears. Even then, there are options.

What is your current setup and what are you trying to achieve?

100% stock system. I want better sound, highs, lows, etc. There is really only one direction to go and that is up. I will be making a pretty huge jump!

[oregondonor]

Originally Posted by ctuna

What did they tell you they would use equipment wise?
Just wonder what they are using now?

I have not got the email with the different builds yet but I will be sure to post. Nick mentioned a 6 channel amp and a DSP. When I told him I would up down for a rear delete that changed his thinking. I would have room for a better 4 channel amp to give me more power. I'd like push as much power to the Morels as possible. Yes, he did mention the Morel 402 Hybrids.

I asked about the new JL Xvi amps that have built in DSP. They have only done two-three installs with this new series so I thought it would be cool to go that route.

I will keep you posted.

[bluewater328]

Originally Posted by oregondonor

100% stock system. I want better sound, highs, lows, etc. There is really only one direction to go and that is up. I will be making a pretty huge jump!

Ok I'll bite...what "stock" system is that?
Base, Hifi, Logic7/Harman Kardon, etc?

I have the VX800/8i and it is indeed a very good system to tweak out. Someone just showed me a new Alpine amp in another thread that isn't even in the US yet. Very nice and comparable...actually, I'd say better depending on what you're looking for.

But back to you, I'd imagine they're recommending the VX700/5i or VX1000/5i then? Depends on how much of a bass head you are as (retail to retail) if you spend $100 more, you get 6CH + a bridgeable 200W channel for sub. It'll also depend how solid you keep your trunk and your firing direction (mine is ported through the pass-through area); though if it's MuscialNW, they are probably selling you their corner mount sub to which more power makes sense. But it will look great and save the deep trunk space.

Anycase, looks like you have a plan already set with them and are just sharing - so good luck to you. Please share results.

[oregondonor]

Originally Posted by bluewater328

Ok I'll bite...what "stock" system is that?
Base, Hifi, Logic7/Harman Kardon, etc?

I have the "Stereo" which is the system with no tweeters and no amp. The lowest of the low.

I don't plan and getting a sub as I feel I don't need it. I like acoustic performances that don't really have a lot of low end. I want to be able to hear every instrument on the recording.

[bluewater328]

Originally Posted by oregondonor

I have the "Stereo" which is the system with no tweeters and no amp. The lowest of the low.

I don't plan and getting a sub as I feel I don't need it. I like acoustic performances that don't really have a lot of low end. I want to be able to hear every instrument on the
recording.

So the "Base Stereo" setup -- cool, that's where I came from as well.

I don't want to get into a long debate on musicality, but bass is a part of classical and rock performances as well. All the bass guitars, cellists, bass clarinets, tubas, just said, "hmmm?" Fair enough that most of their register is above a "required" sub level, but Beethoven and a few others may want to talk.

But I get it, I have mostly rock and classical songs that really only utilize the lower-mid register at best. But encompassing music can be well played with a sub as well -- it doesn't have to push the air or pound, but if the spectrum is there, it can be accurate and support it. And you don't have to "manufacture" the sound it to have the sub in play.

With the Vxi series you will have that control regardless and be able to actively adjust the crossovers and gain on individual channels as well as time alignment. So as much as I am NOT someone who pushes my sub hard, I think it would be inaccurate to say I did not benefit by having it and that I did not use it for non-artificial bass as recorded. Also, in a car, there is something to be said about fill to help blend the pieces in a very non-musical environment.

But you did say "feel" and "want" so I respect that as at the end of the day it's your ears listening to it.

[oregondonor]

Originally Posted by bluewater328

So the "Base Stereo" setup -- cool, that's where I came from as well.

I don't want to get into a long debate on musicality, but bass is a part of classical and rock performances as well. All the bass guitars, cellists, bass clarinets, tubas, just said, "hmmm?" Fair enough that most of their register is above a "required" sub level, but Beethoven and a few others may want to talk.

But I get it, I have mostly rock and classical songs that really only utilize the lower-mid register at best. But encompassing music can be well played with a sub as well -- it doesn't have to push the air or pound, but if the spectrum is there, it can be accurate and support it. And you don't have to "manufacture" the sound it to have the sub in play.

With the Vxi series you will have that control regardless and be able to actively adjust the crossovers and gain on individual channels as well as time alignment. So as much as I am NOT someone who pushes my sub hard, I think it would be inaccurate to say I did not benefit by having it and that I did not use it for non-artificial bass as recorded. Also, in a car, there is something to be said about fill to help blend the pieces in a very non-musical environment.

But you did say "feel" and "want" so I respect that as at the end of the day it's your ears listening to it.

Thanks for your reply, and I'm all "ears" so appreciate the feedback. That's why we are all here, right?

I will already be pushing my budget with this upgrade but maybe I should think about getting an amp with more channels to make room for an sub woofer in the future? Something else you said made me think, "there is something to be said about fill".

What are your thoughts on rear delete?

My initial thought is go with a 4 channel amp with DSP, Morel Hybrid 402s and XE200s and be done with it.

Nick from Musicar NW mentioned Arc Audio and Helix DSP in our conversations.

[bluewater328]

Originally Posted by oregondonor

Thanks for your reply, and I'm all "ears" so appreciate the feedback. That's why we are all here, right?

I will already be pushing my budget with this upgrade but maybe I should think about getting an amp with more channels to make room for an sub woofer in the future? Something else you said made me think, "there is something to be said about fill".

What are your thoughts on rear delete?

My initial thought is go with a 4 channel amp with DSP, Morel Hybrid 402s and XE200s and be done with it.

My quick analogy goes back to home
audio/theater:
If you can't have full floorstanding 3 ways (or full stage) in front stage,and you're stuck with something closer to a bookshelf system, how do you supplement?

A sub. A sub can provide ominous sound (you home theater Atmos guys don't go off a cliff into "voice of god" placement) that isn't completely directional. You can even extend a sub to play a higher cross point so that it's "filling gaps.". Again, this doesn't mean you have to let it boom, you can reduce the gain and time correct it so it provides that little extra thst envelops and blends.

But trick here is not to cancel out what the underseats are doing with the sub. You could do your 4ch and tweak it out to your perfection. Then do what I did and test out a sub and see if it helps or if its just added garbage. That keeps the budget flexible as you need it. For me I bought the 8ch because I wanted options and had a feeling I'd want the sub in the end. But I also figured the sub for me wouldnt need the 1000W so I found a sub I liked whose RMS I could provide well.

I would still say rear delete as those would still be mid-highs which would give you manufactured rear signals that ARE directional. Also requires you to spend nearly the same in the rear. With the underseat mid-woofer, you are already producing some fairly decent lows that (with the proper driver) will blow away any added effect from rears.

I personally would go 6ch to control each speaker actively, but that's a choice. To me thats the best part of your amp selection so don't waste what's there — otherwise there are cheaper alternatives if you're just going to use the passive cross to the mid 4" and tweets anyway. Also, not sure about the Morels, but check the RMS rating for them and make sure that the power is hitting its sweet spots. Otherwise you send more than 100W at it might not fo anything than distort - not saying it will, but check to be sure (doubt those Musicar guys would steer you wrong tho).

Built that front stage and then since it seems Musicar is nearby to you, tell them you want a test/loaner sub to try out. Keep it for a few weeks and decide how it helps/doesnt.

[ctuna]

If you want something that plays full range music
super accurately, I am sure you will be happy with those
speakers . And as music car says the rear speakers don't
do anything. If you go to more channels you might go active.
I am not a bass head and I have Morel /Jehnerts with and
XD and its exqusite in detail and not lacking in bass but its
not the trendy car shaking panel rattling bass .

[oregondonor]

Going on two weeks now since I sent Musicar NW an email asking for designs for an Audio Upgrade for my car. Monday I just called to help speed the process along. Talked to Nick and after discussing what I was looking for in a system he indicated he would be putting together a few design options and send them via email. This was Monday.

I called yesterday and Nick was not in the shop but they said they would let him know I called and he would be getting back to me... <crickets>

Must be nice to be one of the best installers in the PNW.