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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > Short cranks no start after driving normally.



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      12-12-2018, 08:33 PM   #89
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Ran a few more tests today:

1. Starter will crank endlessly if jumped with a screw driver.

2. Arcing sounds comes from injectors; Which ever injector I leave plugged in with the others disconnected, that is where the arcing comes from.

If I leave front injector pluged it arcs there towards the front, If I leave rear injector it arcs there towards the back.

I had a human crank the car with my hand and ear on:
glow plug module
ecu
different harnesses behind the engine compartment.
pressure rail.

None are producing the arcing sound.

when all injectors are disconnected, Arcing disappears.
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      12-13-2018, 02:42 AM   #90
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Well you are narrowing it down!
The DDE controls the injectors directly as well as most of the other things you have been getting codes for.
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ectors/hB8tpcW

Have you been able to swap it out yet?
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      12-13-2018, 03:26 PM   #91
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I agree with Owen81. Most likely culprit now is your DDE. Worthwhile investigating the swap now.
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      12-13-2018, 03:47 PM   #92
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Yeah the driver might have burnt out from that shorted injector... Get dudmd to put your tune into a spare ecu. He might have a spare you can buy.... And if he has backups you won't have to send your current ecu to him to program.
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      12-13-2018, 07:59 PM   #93
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Thumbs up

First comment I read this morning was Owen81's, based on that I was determined to get another DDE.

Called multiple places and found one in CA from an '11 335d. worked the guy down to $315 shipped Directly to DUDMD and ordered it. Part # is not an exact match. But it should be the same. (Exact match DDE part number was $600) I cheked with Dima as well, he has cloned into non exact match part numbers with success.

Unfortunately I did the remote tune originally so they have no back up of my DDE. I will be sending my DDE asap.


Quote:
Originally Posted by robnitro View Post
Yeah the driver might have burnt out from that shorted injector...
That's what I was thinking...Im convinced enough to give it a shot.


Unless Im very unlucky and there is a current short and that burns out the new DDE as well.

Guess I have 2 weeks to be completely certain there are no shorts in the car for when I get the DDE back (Chicago to west coast and back)


I keep checking for amp draw a the battery and there is none....what ever I do I better keep that hood closed...dint want any more water getting in there.
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      12-13-2018, 09:13 PM   #94
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The injector wiring should be easy to test.
Inj 123 share a wire, and 3 wires one to each injector.
Same with 456.
At the harness:
Check each to ground w ohm meter. Flip leads polarity and check again to ground.
and then the common to each injector wire.
Then do it again with injectors plugged in. Plugged in you will get some reading from common to each injector. They should all be similar readings. Ground to common and each inj should be above 100k iirc.
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      12-19-2018, 06:42 PM   #95
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Installed new cloned DDE today.
Same problems, arcing, short crank no start.

I ran the tests above, no current shorts that i can find with the multi meter.


Here is a view from the camshaft sensor opening into the intake side camshaft.



Should there be movement there?
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      12-20-2018, 06:34 PM   #96
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Carnage





Sliding off the sprocket on the intake side camshaft reveals the teeth have been sheared off at both mating surfaces.

Still not certain if the sprocket is meant to slide freely the way I did on the pictures. or if there is in fact something that should keep it in place.

The plan of action is:
Adjust the timing on the camshaft.
weld it as a temp option just to see if there is compression and it's worth continuing to work with this engine.
If compression is achieved sufficiently I can buy a new camshaft and go from there.


Anyone care to speculate what damage can occur when the intake only side is out of timing?

All other examples of broken timing chains involve complete failure so Im hoping I might be lucky. And I just suffered a lack of compression.

In the event the piston touched the valve Im hoping it just threw the camshaft out of sync and not bent anything since there was nothing at the sprocket forcing it.
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      12-21-2018, 04:47 PM   #97
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Oh no. Sorry to see this. I was worried when there was no movement on the camshaft. As far as I know there's no position on the intake where no valve is open. So you most likely have some bent valves.
At this stage it is probably worthwhile taking the head off on assess the damage from there.
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      12-21-2018, 04:54 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik325tds View Post
Oh no. Sorry to see this. I was worried when there was no movement on the camshaft. As far as I know there's no position on the intake where no valve is open. So you most likely have some bent valves.
At this stage it is probably worthwhile taking the head off on assess the damage from there.
Looks like the camshaft seized as opposed to spinning out of control.

This makes me think maybe the damage isn't too bad.

I tried to spin it and not sure where it is stuck but there is one bearing cover that lifts as I turn it. Im guessing that bearing seized.

this is way beyond what Ive ever messed with in a car lol

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      12-21-2018, 06:39 PM   #99
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Bmw quality... Shit sorry but I thought BMW was known for their mechanical prowess. I expected it to be an electrical issue.... All of that work you did to find out that their cams seize??

I hate to say it but if a TDI owner had this issue they would be blaming vw for crap work. Meanwhile my friend with a v10 m5 excuses bmw's f67k up on the bearings as ok. No, sorry, that's bad engineering.
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      12-21-2018, 08:59 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik325tds View Post
Oh no. Sorry to see this. I was worried when there was no movement on the camshaft. As far as I know there's no position on the intake where no valve is open. So you most likely have some bent valves.
At this stage it is probably worthwhile taking the head off on assess the damage from there.
To remove the head? sounds complicated I think I want to get it running however I can and take it to carmax.

Here is how lose the cam shoes where.



Trying to determine the cause of the camshaft seizing.

it was not a seized bearing as I presumed as there is no bearing there.

Both surfaces on the shoe look intact. Screws are in good shape as well.



The screws must have come lose as a result of vibration and not a single event....so it's likely it was the lose camshaft screws that caused the camshaft to become out of time with the engine.

Not sure if that is a thing that happens.


My plan now is to sync the camshafts with the pistons. Put a small weld on it just to start the engine. If engine starts and sounds remotely good, put a ball of weld in it and drive it to carmax.

I don't think diagnosing and repairing it to oem specs is worth while. I have allready put a lot of time into it as it is.
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      12-22-2018, 08:44 AM   #101
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That's the first time I've heard that camshaft bolts come loose on their own. Do you know if this car had work done on the head before?
I don't think you'll be able to get a start out that engine though. There's no position of the camshaft where you can spin the crankshaft without the pistons hitting the the valves and vice versa.
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      12-22-2018, 09:08 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik325tds View Post
That's the first time I've heard that camshaft bolts come loose on their own. Do you know if this car had work done on the head before?
Not sure, but the valve cover gasket looks rubbery. at this advanced level of miles it's unlikely it was not replaced. So based on that someone probably removed the cover. But no idea if the cams where messed with.

I don't think you'll be able to get a start out that engine though. There's no position of the camshaft where you can spin the crankshaft without the pistons hitting the the valves and vice versa.
Correct, the reason why I still have hope is that:

If the intake camshaft seized in one position. (this is not 100%) but lets examine that possibility since that seems to be the case.

and IF only one valve is open at any one time.

Then the same valve was hit more than once by the rotation of the crankshaft.

The other valves should still be intact. then? does that make sense

How many valves need to be intact for the car to start? I mean Im thinking really positive here. but even if they are all bent. Lets say they have really poor compression will the car still start?

Obviously Im assuming a lot of things here and Im not familiar with how these things fail and how far the piston bends the valves.

Still Im not asking for my 650lbs of torque just want the car to start. lol
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      12-23-2018, 08:49 AM   #103
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Well, I guess you don't have much to loose at this point. Might as well line up the intake shaft and spot weld it and then turn the engine by hand (with the harmonic balancer pulley). That way you would easily be able to detect a lock up condition. You could also watch your intake valves with a scope through the top and tangential ports. Once you have smooth movement you could try cranking it. But don't expect too much. Unlike gasser 6 cylinder engines the diesel really sound bad on 5 cylinders.
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      12-23-2018, 03:46 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik325tds View Post
Well, I guess you don't have much to loose at this point. Might as well line up the intake shaft and spot weld it and then turn the engine by hand (with the harmonic balancer pulley). That way you would easily be able to detect a lock up condition. You could also watch your intake valves with a scope through the top and tangential ports. Once you have smooth movement you could try cranking it. But don't expect too much. Unlike gasser 6 cylinder engines the diesel really sound bad on 5 cylinders.
This are some really good ideas, test by hand first that way if something is seriously wrong why create a disaster starting up the engine. good idea.

I totally forgot you can go in trough the tangenial ports with a camera this worth a shot as well.

The part I did not consider with the welding is that the timing is etched on the camshaft sprocket. That is how you align the timing of the two camshafts perfectly.

having lost that reference point, I would have to look at degreeing the camshaft. Contacted a local engine guy and said he would not feel comfortable aligning them without that reference point.

And me neither, tolerances must be pretty tight. Add to that my poor welding skills and this is is likely to be a disaster.

Buying a used camshaft for about 230 bucks and replacing the existing one seems like a pretty doable job.

I presume the still connected exhaust camshaft and chain are still in good timing with TDC. So all I have to do is sync the new intake camshaft with the other one matching the two dots in the back of the sprocket and it should be in good timing.
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      12-23-2018, 09:00 PM   #105
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Did you check the threads in the aluminium cylinder head ?I mean the threads for the camshafts holders screws..
I saw one motor like this in Europe, due to a timing chain failure had the camshafts and few valves bented and the camshafts holders pushed up pulling the screws out from the cylinder head ..
The mechanic tried to repair the threads with inserts but no luck in finaly when the new camshafts didn't rotate at all because the holders gone unaligned and gave it up instaling another head on the block.
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      12-27-2018, 05:33 PM   #106
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Good grief...
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      12-30-2018, 02:34 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelubelea View Post
Did you check the threads in the aluminium cylinder head ?I mean the threads for the camshafts holders screws..
I saw one motor like this in Europe, due to a timing chain failure had the camshafts and few valves bented and the camshafts holders pushed up pulling the screws out from the cylinder head ..
The mechanic tried to repair the threads with inserts but no luck in finaly when the new camshafts didn't rotate at all because the holders gone unaligned and gave it up instaling another head on the block.
Good to know, I will be sure to inspect. I did not feel anything abnormal when re tightening them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Persian Whisperjet View Post
Good grief...
lol!


This arrived the other day.



Ebay seller claims it's from a 335d with 80k (so maybe it's really 150k )

Looks mostly good, but for one tab where there is a line etched on it.



I guess the real test to see if it's bent will be when I torque down the holders, see if it spins.


Did not realize that while it's true that the exhaust camshaft is holding it's timing. To remove the intake camshaft I have to remove an outer sproket. That sets the timing for the exhaust camshaft. So I will have to adjust timing regardless. Also It looks like both camshafts have to come out to replace the one.

So Im planning to mark everything with nail polish...



So this is what this should look like...good to know.
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      01-05-2019, 05:42 PM   #108
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Buzzing is normal

I recently had my battery disconnected for a little while and when I reconnected it and started ignition only I heard that buzzing sound you were describing. Seems to be totally normal....
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      01-06-2019, 05:47 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik325tds View Post
I recently had my battery disconnected for a little while and when I reconnected it and started ignition only I heard that buzzing sound you were describing. Seems to be totally normal....
Lol so it turned out to be a normal sound then !

The X5 does not do it for sure! interesting. well there goes that mystery. guess they just do that when they electrify?

----------------------

Currently stuck trying to lock the chain tensioner.

Instructions say to crank exhaust camshaft counter clockwise 45 degrees.

then insert a locking pin.

I can see the pin hole and I have a Allen key that fits in and goes in far enough.

But I don't see how that locks anything. The mechanism hits the locking pin port and does not overlap it. So Inserting the pin does not do anything.

There is something Im not doing right here.





Good news is that the engine crankshaft does turn full revolutions. and the Intake camshaft does as well.

Edit:

Found out this is effed up as well
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      01-07-2019, 11:51 PM   #110
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Was able to lock the chain tensioner with the back of a drill bit. (thanks Matt Whitbread for tip )



Markings on old Camshaft

View post on imgur.com



Found three of these



So I guess At least 3 valves where hit lol, This must be those new self destructing rocker arms that prevent bent valves when the shit hits the fan. haha ..I wish. But Im hoping the valves are still straight. One can have hope!

Ordered new rockers from latvia...for 12 bucks a piece.

Ill try to get some pictures of the valves while I wait for those rockers.

It's gonna be freezing cold around here so it's not like Im gonna be able to work on the car anyway.

Edit:
went in trough the right side intake ports and took some pictures of valves.
I suppose there are 12 valves on each camshaft so this is only half of them



also pulled vacuum trough the tangenial ports. Only cylinder 6 pulls about 5mmgh briefly and loses it. all other cylinders do now. Not sure how conclusive this is

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