|
|
|
|
|
|
BMW Garage | BMW Meets | Register | Today's Posts | Search |
|
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum
>
Problems brake bleeding using INPA on xDrive
|
|
06-03-2020, 08:46 PM | #1 |
Colonel
1444
Rep 2,126
Posts |
Problems brake bleeding using INPA on xDrive
So, after bleeding my brakes using Motive bleeder, I still have soft pedal, so I found the INPA procedure.
However, it appears that the videos and instructions I found are for non-xdrive cars. For xDrive, you need to select "Dynamic Stability Control DXC" option under chassis. The confusing part is that the next screen looks completely different compared to non-xD. Looks like this: I still followed the process of RR, RL, FR, FL. However, I only got as far as RR. The process aborted on me as I didn't continue pressing the pedal because the reservoir got empty, so I stopped. This was after about 70 pedal presses. I'm not kidding. So, I moved on to RR hoping that RL was just a fluke and it got bled. Same thing happened there, except I noticed at the very begining where it starts giving instruction that the window said "bleeding wheel FR...". This is despite me selecting F1 - bleed RL. Are the labels in INPA wrong? Should I follow what it says at the top? "(please start always with F1, then F2, F3, F4)? I am very confused and wasted soe brake fluid. Now, I only have 1.5L left. Is that enough to go through the process? Please help! |
06-03-2020, 11:18 PM | #2 |
Captain
433
Rep 780
Posts |
When I did mine (rwd) it only cycles 10 or so times. And as long as there's no mess ups, 1.5L should be fine, I believe the system is 1L or so with a full reservoir.
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-04-2020, 04:51 AM | #3 | |
Colonel
1444
Rep 2,126
Posts |
Quote:
The process just kept asking me to actuate and release brake pedal over and over again. When I stopped, I got en error that because I didn't press the pedal, the bleeding process has been cancelled. That's after I pretty much drained the reservoir. In fact, with the second caliper I did, I think I sucked in some air into the system. Do I need to rebleed using Motive or just re-try INPA? So, my only guess is that INPA labels are messed up and while I pushed the correct buttons, INPA expected a different caliper to be bled while I kept pumping the pedal according to instructions. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-04-2020, 09:51 AM | #4 |
Brigadier General
2440
Rep 4,330
Posts |
I prefer to do service functions in ISTA, because it's much more user friendly.
you'll find brake bleeding under vehicle management>service functions>traction control IIRC. |
Appreciate
0
|
06-04-2020, 10:16 AM | #5 | ||
Brigadier General
2694
Rep 4,031
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
The sequence in which INPA bleeds the brakes is as follows: < F1 > HL = Hinten Links = Rear Left = Left Rear = LR < F2 > VL = Vorne Links = Front Left = Left Front = LF < F3 > VR = Vorne Rechts = Front Right = Right Front = RF < F4 > HR = Hinten Rechts = Rear Right = Right Rear = RR THAT is NOT the sequence used with other bleed systems which you were following (based upon distance from the Master Cylinder), but INPA is operating the valve block, and if you are going to use that routine, you have to open the bleed valve related to the wheel INPA is pumping out. Here are MY translations of German INPA Instructions related to the Brake Bleed Routine. I don't speak German and never had any formal German Language training, so ANYONE who does/ has, please correct or improve: Always start venting with F1, then F2, F3, F4 = Entlueften immer mit F1 starten, dann F2, F3, F4 Brake Bleed = Bremsen-entlüften Please Follow Instructions Exactly = bitte Anweisungen genau befolgen Open the Venting Screws HL = Entluefterschrauben HL oeffnen Press the Brake Pedal = Bremspedal betaetigen ! Here's a link to the Google Translate site I use: https://translate.google.com/#view=h...te&sl=de&tl=en George |
||
Appreciate
0
|
06-04-2020, 10:48 AM | #6 | |
Brigadier General
2694
Rep 4,031
Posts |
Quote:
Someday soon I'll install & use ISTA, but my concept of it for now is a "somewhat dumbed-down" version for "Exceptional Americans". It would be interesting to the know just HOW & WHY ISTA was developed, WHO developed it, and if it was Germans (probably), just WHAT they said about the "Anglo Techs" (die englischen Techniker) behind closed doors. My cynical side imagines the use of words such as "Spur von Semmelbröseln" = Trail of Breadcrumbs Thanks for the ISTA tips, George |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-04-2020, 10:55 AM | #7 | |
Colonel
1444
Rep 2,126
Posts |
Quote:
Yes, I know some German, so it was clear to me that in the above screen that HR Hinten Rechts is right rear. However, I read bleeding procedure for E91 xDrive in TIS that shows order as RR, RL, FR, FL: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...lation/GNyEPyU So, I thought something is wrong in INPA and started with RR. When I clicked F4 'bleedRR', I got message to "breather bolt RR open". So, I opened RR bleeder screw and clicked OK. I then got a message that bleeding process will take approximately 80 seconds and I was then prompted to actuate pedal (green screen), then release pedal (blue screen), actuate pedal, release pedal etc. In the first few pumps, the DSC unit activated and I kept following the instructions to press/release pedal and after quite a few pumps (I counted 70+, seriously), I went to take a peek at the reservoir, which was now nearly empty. While doing that check, I got an message with red background, which read something like: Brake pedal not actuated, Bleeding process cancelled. And I was returned to the above screen. I close the bleeder. About 600ml came out during this process. I'll try it again, but this time I'll use my Motive bleeder to pressurize the system and feed it fluid automatically, so I don't have to keep checking/refill reservoir after each caliper or risk running dry again. Is 1.5L enough for this if it goes well? I want to get TRW brake fluid I'm using, but I'm not sure I'll be able to it today or tomorrow and I need the car this weekend. I'll see if I can connect ISTA. It gave me trouble before as it couldn't identify vehicle. But I think that was a dummy mistake on my part as I later realized, I had the BimmerGeeks cable switch set to E46 mode. So, I'll try connecting it again. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-04-2020, 11:00 AM | #8 | |
Colonel
1444
Rep 2,126
Posts |
Quote:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-of-bmw-group/ Let's just be glad that it's not in Mandarin.... yet. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-04-2020, 11:02 AM | #9 | |
Colonel
1444
Rep 2,126
Posts |
At least I found one more person out there with the same issue:
Quote:
https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh....php?t=1316633 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-04-2020, 06:27 PM | #10 | |
Brigadier General
2440
Rep 4,330
Posts |
Quote:
but if I just want to reset a CBS minder or do some dumb maintenance reset, ISTA is just easier to navigate. Key things like upgrading a keyfob to comfort access are miles easier. my german is poor, but I get the gist usually. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-04-2020, 06:53 PM | #11 |
Colonel
1444
Rep 2,126
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-04-2020, 09:38 PM | #12 |
Colonel
1444
Rep 2,126
Posts |
OK, so I'm sitting here with Motive pressurized and ready to start the ISTA bleeding process, but I'm a dummy I guess.
I got to this screen in the attachment. It says that for DSC8, to follow RR, RL, R, FL. INPA said something different. So, I went back to INPA and followed the order prescribed. However, as the post I quoted above, INPA just loops endlessly on actuate/release pedal, so after about 10 pumps, I stopped and moved on to the next caliper in the order. I used up all of my 1.5L of fluid and didn't get to the RR. I'm out 4L of fluid and I'm fed up. And the pedal is soft. At least, it was when I started the car after not getting to the RR above. Do I follow the ISTA process and order? Do I have DSC8? ISTA says, I have DSC8 Plus on xDrive E91. Very frustrating. I don't have any fluid left and I need the car this weekend. |
Appreciate
0
|
06-05-2020, 11:32 AM | #13 |
Brigadier General
2440
Rep 4,330
Posts |
can't say.
When i did it I used about 3L of fluid for flush and bleed. I followed the instructions and it worked. I'm not sure if there's a postition sensor on the brake pedal. but perhaps the car is not registering your pedal presses properly? |
Appreciate
0
|
06-05-2020, 11:45 AM | #14 |
Brigadier General
2440
Rep 4,330
Posts |
also, since you've already flushed the system, there's no reason you shouldn't be capturing the fluid coming out in a clean container and putting it back into the pressure bleeder.
if it looks clean, don't toss it. |
Appreciate
0
|
06-05-2020, 12:44 PM | #15 | ||
Colonel
1444
Rep 2,126
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
I poured it back into the original brake fluid container. The fluid is very clean and actually even the original one came out quite good looking unlike many DIY videos I see. Perhaps I could put it back in and go with it for a couple of years of city driving even if it has a couple of drops of moisture. Hmm... |
||
Appreciate
0
|
06-06-2020, 08:26 AM | #16 |
Lieutenant Colonel
480
Rep 1,600
Posts |
On the RWD models, the INPA bleed happens really quick. Almost too quick to be a one person job. I've never done an AWD model with INPA. It does seem to expect you to press the pedal too frequently.
It looks like you have access to ISTA so why don't you use that? That's what the dealers use so if that doesn't resolve your soft pedal issue then it is either a bypassing master or user error. I only use INPA when I have to for the DSC bleed but I have always had success using both programs. Replaced masters, DSC modules. I don't even think my pressure bleeder at home can go up to 30psi like the electric machines we have in the shop. What led you to the soft pedal initially? |
Appreciate
0
|
06-06-2020, 12:03 PM | #17 | |
Colonel
1444
Rep 2,126
Posts |
Quote:
My next step was to go back to ISTA and follow steps 3-7 as in the instructions, but I ran out of brake fluid. Since I wasn't catching it in clean container, I'll wait for new bottles on Monday and try again. By the time I figure this out, I'll be out $100 on fluid alone and three nights of frustration. BMW University is not cheap. And what led me to soft pedal was an upgrade to 335i brakes all around. The braking power is there and the car stop very well. Much better than on old brakes. But the initial pedal travel is very soft. I'm pretty sure I bled the system well, but since I didn't bleed DSC I wanted to address that as I've read that this makes the difference. Some others have reported that coding brakes for Performance brakes firms up the pedal even more. Strange as the hardware components between 328i and 335i brakes are identical. Once I'm done, I'll write up a new clean post with the detailed steps and my lessons learned as it seems that no one experience the xdrive differences and all the videos with INPA are for RWD, which has a different process. For now folks, don't use INPA on xdrive for DSC bleeding. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-06-2020, 12:23 PM | #18 | |
Major General
1903
Rep 6,968
Posts
Drives: 2007 Black/Black 335i e90
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Holly, MI
|
Quote:
Other than that, I follow the Bentley Repair Guide to do doing an old fashioned 2 person bleed. It's never failed me in 12 years of ownership. * you will need 3-4, twelve oz. bottles of Dot 4 brake fluid. To do this you : 1) one person in the cabin 2) one person on the caliber Order PR, DR, PF, DF Person on the caliper says "open" simultaneously opening the bleed screw 1/4 to 1/2 turn. Upon hearing the word "open", the person in the cabin pumps the brakes all the way down to the floor 10x. On the 10th time, he/she holds the brake pedal down to the floor and says "holding" Person on the caliper upon hearing the word "holding" closes the bleed screw & says "closed" The person in the cabin releases the brake pedal, upon hearing the word "closed" You do this 2-3x per caliper. ** The person on the caliper refills the Master Cylinder each time and then moves to the next Caliper after 2-3x (you should not see any air bubbles come out of the bleed screw and you should see fresh fluid). Do this for every caliper. Once you get to the front, the brake pedal should start to feel firmer. Your legs will get a small workout when doing the front calipers. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-06-2020, 12:40 PM | #19 | |
Colonel
1444
Rep 2,126
Posts |
Quote:
Yes, that is the typical bleeding process and I've used that before I got my Motive bleeder. With the Motive bleeder I don't need to bug my wife (100 bonus points around here! haha). The bleeder always worked well for me. I have done a complete caliper rebuild and upgrade on our (now gone) 2005 Audi A4. Worked beautifully. Firm pedal, no issues after single bleed. I've bled clutches etc. After this upgrade, the top of the pedal feels soft and I've read everywhere that DSC bleed is needed, so here I am. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-06-2020, 12:54 PM | #20 | ||
Major General
1903
Rep 6,968
Posts
Drives: 2007 Black/Black 335i e90
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Holly, MI
|
Quote:
|
||
Appreciate
0
|
06-07-2020, 05:37 AM | #21 |
Lieutenant Colonel
480
Rep 1,600
Posts |
Use a charger while doing the DSC bleed as it takes a while (20-30 mins depending on your pace and how you have your car set up. For max speed have the wheels off and car on stands). When you connect to ISTA, always select identification WITHOUT test/scan to minimise the FRM risk.
Did you use something to hold the brake pedal down during the caliper swap so that no fluid drips out? |
Appreciate
0
|
06-07-2020, 05:51 AM | #22 | |
Colonel
1444
Rep 2,126
Posts |
Quote:
Yes, I had a charger connected as it does take a while running around the car. It's only a 4amp trickle charger, but seems to have kept the battery topped up over 12.3-12.5V. I then left it overnight for a full recharge. And I'm doing it with wheels off and on a QuickJack lift. I've read about FRM afterwards. I hope I didn't mess anything up as I did run the identificationwith test twice so far. FRM did show yellow in the control tree, but I did not access it. And yes, during the calioer swap, I held the pedal down with a stick and really had no fluid loss at all. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
Bookmarks |
Tags |
bleeding, brake, inpa, xdrive |
|
|