Has anyone contacted BMW regarding 29.2 and lag?

ezatnova · 08-12-2008, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prof3ssor

Yep, I actually wrote the same exact letter after I received the call from my SA. I am still awaiting a call back from BMWNA to tell me what they decided upon for compensation. I know I will not get a dime since they had the service rep for NJ go out to the dealer. I am not giving up and will write and call everyday to keep pressing the issue. Many will say I am wasting my time but someone has to do it and if you just sit back and accept the fact that you bought a 50k car and they turned it into a different animal then there is something wrong with that picture. All you have to do is just save a draft of your letter and send the thing everyday. That is what I did and finally someone called. I still can't believe that even though they found a pre v29.2 and specifically said to my face that there is a noticeable difference that when the rep for NJ came out he played it off as this is what the car is supposed to run like. Oh boy, I need to stop typing as I am getting more upset. Good luck gentleman and maybe one day this will be resolved but until then keep the calls and e-mails flowing.

Man, I would really call up whoever you took out the pre 29.2 car with at the dealer and give it to him straight about the rep coming out and denying the issue. See if he'll back you up.

thefitter · 08-12-2008, 05:26 PM

Someone just told me that 29.1 is still good it's only 29.2 when things went to shit.

What do you think? BS?

Prof3ssor · 08-12-2008, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezatnova

Man, I would really call up whoever you took out the pre 29.2 car with at the dealer and give it to him straight about the rep coming out and denying the issue. See if he'll back you up.

I did bro and I actually have them on my side. It's the rep that denies our car is any different.

tyler9595 · 08-12-2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezatnova

"...While I was disappointed not to be able to feel a pre 29.2 car, I did want to feel what it's like for you guys with 29.2 and 6AT's.
It is SO FRIGGIN DIFFERENT than the 6MT with 29.2! Where my car has LAG below 3k rpm for about 1.5-2 seconds, then it springs forward, the AT car just GOES NOWHERE and never even snaps forward. It's really odd though, driving the AT, because if you want to go fast with rapid throttle input, you're going to mash the pedal and hit the kickdown and go to a lower gear anyway...so it took patients for me to NOT go past the detent so as to hold my gear in M mode.

... In the 6AT, it was a joke to leave it in 6th and try to accelerate from 60 mph (again, without hitting the kickdown)..."

Nova, I think it may be true that the 29.2+ 6AT has more "lag" or has crappier throttle response than the 6MT. But, do you think some of the difference you noticed in the vert is due to the HUGE weight difference between vert and coupe? Isn't the vert something like 400lbs heavier?

Also, I definately have to apply A LOT more throttle now since my car was updated to 29.2. But, FWIW, my car does not kickdown like you and some others have mentioned here. In other words, as a result of applying more throttle, I dont notice any difference in the car's ability or tendency to hold the gear selected in manual mode...just my 2cents.

tyler9595 · 08-12-2008, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prof3ssor

Hope you guys have better luck as my car is ready to be picked up and they could not find 1 thing wrong. The service rep for NJ actually came to the dealership and they still played dumb and said it is running as expected.

Those bastards! Hopefully NA will call you and give you some $ for payments.

coco_m3 · 08-12-2008, 08:51 PM

Well i took my car in this morning and told them my car had long starts and they said they would check it out and i told them about the lag also and they said they would check that out aswell.

So after 8 hours i go and pick it up and i have a new HPFP and he said that that my car is running like it should. so i dont know?

My little test was 1st gear start off and WOT and i dont get turbo power till 3100 rpm.
WTF!
they better get this fixed soon!

Prof3ssor · 08-12-2008, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverbullet135i

Well i took my car in this morning and told them my car had long starts and they said they would check it out and i told them about the lag also and they said they would check that out aswell.

So after 8 hours i go and pick it up and i have a new HPFP and he said that that my car is running like it should. so i dont know?

My little test was 1st gear start off and WOT and i dont get turbo power till 3100 rpm.
WTF!
they better get this fixed soon!

Sounds like the same song and dance I got today. "Sir, your car is running exactly how it should perform and we can not diagnose any problems."

coco_m3 · 08-12-2008, 09:19 PM

its funny how they advertise NO TURBO LAG.
then when you buy the car, THERE IS TUBRO LAG!

RBBMWE46M3 · 08-12-2008, 09:28 PM

It is about 10:30 am here in the great Midwest and I just got a call from BMWNA and the nice lady says..."Good morning Mr.. Hoosier this is BMW OF NA calling regarding your 2008 335xi. What exactly is wrong with your car?" and I say " long starts and turbo lag" she says " who are you dealing with at Levin" .......hang on phone is ringing.....5 min later...that was BMWNA calling back, this is going to be a long thread with what she just told me so bear with me....I told her the shop Forman's name (Jason) she says "I am going to call Jason and talk to him. I will call you back and let you know what he says. What we would like to do is get an engineer to your house (wait till the engineer sees all the BMW's I have heheh) and let him go for a ride with you. I will be calling you back" I say ok and she calls me back just now as I was typing this to all of you and says" Mr. Hoosier are they coming to get your car tomorrow? " I say yes and she says" Jason tells me he drove with you in your car and he says that he cannot detect a problem" (by the way, that test drive was back in the beginning of June) OH MY FUCKING GOD...THIS IS THE SAME ASS HOLE WHO TOLD ME TO DRIVE IT FOR 1500 MI AND LET IT BREAK IN AND THEN WE WILL RE-EVALUATE...anyway. I then tell her " I had the Service Manager and the Sales Manager take it for a ride and they both agreed that I have a turbo lag problem...hang on ...phone again....ok that was My salesman ( wow this is crazy) asking me what is going on. He just told me that he has to come in tomorrow for some sort of meeting about my car on HIS DAY OFF... HAHAHAHHAHAH Is this crazy or what? Anyway, the lady at BMWNA is leaning towards getting me an engineer to my HOUSE to go for a test drive with me. Can you believe this?? Getting back to what she says last is...now get this...I ask her if she has any, and I mean ANY, problems with anyone that has contacted her with a turbo lag...fuel pump...wastegate problem with the 335 and she says......NO...NO MR. HOOSIER, YOU ARE THE FIRST PERSON THAT I HAVE HEARD THAT HAS THIS PROBLEM...My car goes in tomorrow for an ecu upgrade is what my salesman told me is what they are going to try first. Im' sure I sound that I'm rambling on and on but I wanted to give you a heads up on what BMWNA is puking out. It is now 9pm and I am just finishing this thread ( I took the kids flying ) I will let all of you know what happens tomorrow after they get my car and flash it. I have a feeling they are going to tell me "Mr. Hoosier, we cannot simulate any of your problems" and then I let BMWNA have it....

visor · 08-12-2008, 09:54 PM

^ Wow, we're all rooting for you for a constructive visit with the engineer!

On another note, I test drove an auto 335i sedan today. Brand new with 15km. Coming from a 330i, I thought it was noticeably quite powerful above 2000 rpms. Don't know about which version progman though...

Quisp · 08-13-2008, 12:22 AM

I looked into the Lemon Law possibility and one thing I think that might be a problem is that they would have to acknowledge that the problem exists first, then attempt to repair it a certain amount of times in a period of time. Since they dont acknowledge the problem, they havent atempted to fix it, and that could give them a loophole.
I did find a different way to look at this and I will ask someone about this(if anyone knows a lawyer they may want to ask as well). This might fall under breach of contract for those people leasing or financing. You would have to read the agreement and find out what BMW is responsible for providing per the contract you have with them. If they do not live up to everything that is written on the agreement, then that would be breach of contract. Just as if you didnt live up to your end of the deal.
Just some more thoughts to toss around.
I spent 14 hours today getting my Dinan stage2 so I am a bit fuzzy headed but the way that the phrases "running as it should" and "we can not duplicate your problem" are being tossed out, I think that maybe it wouldnt be a bad idea to contact someone in your state that specializes in consumer law and see what they think about all this nonsense. Can't hurt and the consult doesnt cost anything. Maybe some letters from lawyers will get a response, who knows?

RBBMWE46M3 · 08-13-2008, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quisp

I looked into the Lemon Law possibility and one thing I think that might be a problem is that they would have to acknowledge that the problem exists first, then attempt to repair it a certain amount of times in a period of time. Since they dont acknowledge the problem, they havent atempted to fix it, and that could give them a loophole.
I did find a different way to look at this and I will ask someone about this(if anyone knows a lawyer they may want to ask as well). This might fall under breach of contract for those people leasing or financing. You would have to read the agreement and find out what BMW is responsible for providing per the contract you have with them. If they do not live up to everything that is written on the agreement, then that would be breach of contract. Just as if you didnt live up to your end of the deal.
Just some more thoughts to toss around.
I spent 14 hours today getting my Dinan stage2 so I am a bit fuzzy headed but the way that the phrases "running as it should" and "we can not duplicate your problem" are being tossed out, I think that maybe it wouldnt be a bad idea to contact someone in your state that specializes in consumer law and see what they think about all this nonsense. Can't hurt and the consult doesnt cost anything. Maybe some letters from lawyers will get a response, who knows?

good idea...I'll look into it

Prof3ssor · 08-13-2008, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RBBMWE46M3

It is about 10:30 am here in the great Midwest and I just got a call from BMWNA and the nice lady says..."Good morning Mr.. Hoosier this is BMW OF NA calling regarding your 2008 335xi. What exactly is wrong with your car?" and I say " long starts and turbo lag" she says " who are you dealing with at Levin" .......hang on phone is ringing.....5 min later...that was BMWNA calling back, this is going to be a long thread with what she just told me so bear with me....I told her the shop Forman's name (Jason) she says "I am going to call Jason and talk to him. I will call you back and let you know what he says. What we would like to do is get an engineer to your house (wait till the engineer sees all the BMW's I have heheh) and let him go for a ride with you. I will be calling you back" I say ok and she calls me back just now as I was typing this to all of you and says" Mr. Hoosier are they coming to get your car tomorrow? " I say yes and she says" Jason tells me he drove with you in your car and he says that he cannot detect a problem" (by the way, that test drive was back in the beginning of June) OH MY FUCKING GOD...THIS IS THE SAME ASS HOLE WHO TOLD ME TO DRIVE IT FOR 1500 MI AND LET IT BREAK IN AND THEN WE WILL RE-EVALUATE...anyway. I then tell her " I had the Service Manager and the Sales Manager take it for a ride and they both agreed that I have a turbo lag problem...hang on ...phone again....ok that was My salesman ( wow this is crazy) asking me what is going on. He just told me that he has to come in tomorrow for some sort of meeting about my car on HIS DAY OFF... HAHAHAHHAHAH Is this crazy or what? Anyway, the lady at BMWNA is leaning towards getting me an engineer to my HOUSE to go for a test drive with me. Can you believe this?? Getting back to what she says last is...now get this...I ask her if she has any, and I mean ANY, problems with anyone that has contacted her with a turbo lag...fuel pump...wastegate problem with the 335 and she says......NO...NO MR. HOOSIER, YOU ARE THE FIRST PERSON THAT I HAVE HEARD THAT HAS THIS PROBLEM...My car goes in tomorrow for an ecu upgrade is what my salesman told me is what they are going to try first. Im' sure I sound that I'm rambling on and on but I wanted to give you a heads up on what BMWNA is puking out. It is now 9pm and I am just finishing this thread ( I took the kids flying ) I will let all of you know what happens tomorrow after they get my car and flash it. I have a feeling they are going to tell me "Mr. Hoosier, we cannot simulate any of your problems" and then I let BMWNA have it....

Keep up posted!!! You got further than I did even though BMWNA is suppoed to call me back. It's pretty funny that she said you are the first with this issue especially since we both got calls from BMWNA. When I noted that there are numerous people on this board that are reporting problems her response was...ready..."Don't believe everything you read"

ezatnova · 08-13-2008, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyler9595

Nova, I think it may be true that the 29.2+ 6AT has more "lag" or has crappier throttle response than the 6MT. But, do you think some of the difference you noticed in the vert is due to the HUGE weight difference between vert and coupe? Isn't the vert something like 400lbs heavier?

Also, I definately have to apply A LOT more throttle now since my car was updated to 29.2. But, FWIW, my car does not kickdown like you and some others have mentioned here. In other words, as a result of applying more throttle, I dont notice any difference in the car's ability or tendency to hold the gear selected in manual mode...just my 2cents.

Could have been weight, but I don't think so. I still would have felt SOME surge, and there was none at all.

As for the kickdown, I may not have been clear. I got it to hold gears fine, in M mode, it just took me getting used to not hitting the downshift switch...so, I couldn't floor it like I do in my car.

ezatnova · 08-13-2008, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RBBMWE46M3

It is about 10:30 am here in the great Midwest and I just got a call from BMWNA and the nice lady says..."Good morning Mr.. Hoosier this is BMW OF NA calling regarding your 2008 335xi. What exactly is wrong with your car?" and I say " long starts and turbo lag" she says " who are you dealing with at Levin" .......hang on phone is ringing.....5 min later...that was BMWNA calling back, this is going to be a long thread with what she just told me so bear with me....I told her the shop Forman's name (Jason) she says "I am going to call Jason and talk to him. I will call you back and let you know what he says. What we would like to do is get an engineer to your house (wait till the engineer sees all the BMW's I have heheh) and let him go for a ride with you. I will be calling you back" I say ok and she calls me back just now as I was typing this to all of you and says" Mr. Hoosier are they coming to get your car tomorrow? " I say yes and she says" Jason tells me he drove with you in your car and he says that he cannot detect a problem" (by the way, that test drive was back in the beginning of June) OH MY FUCKING GOD...THIS IS THE SAME ASS HOLE WHO TOLD ME TO DRIVE IT FOR 1500 MI AND LET IT BREAK IN AND THEN WE WILL RE-EVALUATE...anyway. I then tell her " I had the Service Manager and the Sales Manager take it for a ride and they both agreed that I have a turbo lag problem...hang on ...phone again....ok that was My salesman ( wow this is crazy) asking me what is going on. He just told me that he has to come in tomorrow for some sort of meeting about my car on HIS DAY OFF... HAHAHAHHAHAH Is this crazy or what? Anyway, the lady at BMWNA is leaning towards getting me an engineer to my HOUSE to go for a test drive with me. Can you believe this?? Getting back to what she says last is...now get this...I ask her if she has any, and I mean ANY, problems with anyone that has contacted her with a turbo lag...fuel pump...wastegate problem with the 335 and she says......NO...NO MR. HOOSIER, YOU ARE THE FIRST PERSON THAT I HAVE HEARD THAT HAS THIS PROBLEM...My car goes in tomorrow for an ecu upgrade is what my salesman told me is what they are going to try first. Im' sure I sound that I'm rambling on and on but I wanted to give you a heads up on what BMWNA is puking out. It is now 9pm and I am just finishing this thread ( I took the kids flying ) I will let all of you know what happens tomorrow after they get my car and flash it. I have a feeling they are going to tell me "Mr. Hoosier, we cannot simulate any of your problems" and then I let BMWNA have it....

OMG! I laughed out loud like 5 times reading this...just feeling your frustration in "real time".
Jesus Christ.

You are making some incredible progress though...friggin engineers coming to your house. The thing is, even Sven the engineer won't be able to tell much without having a pre-29.2 car around to compare with, unless he is REALLY good.

Keep at em!

ezatnova · 08-13-2008, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quisp

I looked into the Lemon Law possibility and one thing I think that might be a problem is that they would have to acknowledge that the problem exists first, then attempt to repair it a certain amount of times in a period of time. Since they dont acknowledge the problem, they havent atempted to fix it, and that could give them a loophole.
I did find a different way to look at this and I will ask someone about this(if anyone knows a lawyer they may want to ask as well). This might fall under breach of contract for those people leasing or financing. You would have to read the agreement and find out what BMW is responsible for providing per the contract you have with them. If they do not live up to everything that is written on the agreement, then that would be breach of contract. Just as if you didnt live up to your end of the deal.
Just some more thoughts to toss around.
I spent 14 hours today getting my Dinan stage2 so I am a bit fuzzy headed but the way that the phrases "running as it should" and "we can not duplicate your problem" are being tossed out, I think that maybe it wouldnt be a bad idea to contact someone in your state that specializes in consumer law and see what they think about all this nonsense. Can't hurt and the consult doesnt cost anything. Maybe some letters from lawyers will get a response, who knows?

Two things... On the lemon law, I was thinking about this myself. I have basically the same take on it, but slightly different. My dealer DOES acknowledge the problem, but they have NOT attempted to fix it, because, well, there is no fix short of rolling it back, which they can't realy do. So, I think that's where it falls short. We may be better pursuing some breach of contract or something. In order to prove that, it would help to get test results which I have requested for some time now and I am SHOCKED we can not get our hands on... a simple boost data log, from 1000 rpm to redline, in each gear. Separate pulls in each gear (not banging one gear to the next, continuously) so that the turbo has to re-spool. One on 27.4 test. One on 29.2 test. Boom. Proof. Done.

Anyway, my other note was...so you you got the Stage 2? I assume your lag is GONE now, and your exhaust sounds normal again? Will you be leaving us poor 29.2'ers to cry in our soup now??!

Quisp · 08-13-2008, 09:29 AM

I got the stage 2, and wow, what a difference. I missed that old tap the gas and pass feeling.It is different though. I get the normal pickup when i hit the gas, but then at about 5000 there is another surge. I am going to drive it some more today where i can focus on the car rather than Dallas traffic. And no I will still be here trying to figure this out with you guys. I still get to look forward to HPFP problems and who knows what else so I am not letting them go.(plus I had to pay Dinan to do something BMW should have done to some degree)
I am hoping to hear back from the attorney and hear what he thinks about the way the car is advertised and what has happened with 29.2.
I think we are going to need more people as a group to get BMW to really notice. 30+ people is not much for BMW US. I am not giving up though, I think once something starts to happen, many more names will be on the list. Probably some wait and see what happens going on.
You said your dealer acknowledged the problem, but for lemon law BMW is who they go after, and thats the one who has to acknowledge it. If the dealer put it in writing somewhere then that works, but if the dealer has to talk to a lawyer about it with BMW looking over his shoulder....some dealers might change their story. I do not know the people you deal with, so I do not want to say that they would. The other trick is that the repair attempts have to be documented. If the dealer says they will look at it and it isnt on the ticket or in the system, that one won't count. This is a trick that service depts use to keep the count from going up. They say it verbally and do not put it on work order. Then if it becomes an issue, there are only SOME of the times you brought it in for that problem.
Either way, we, the oppressed shall overcome and one day rule the highways again....
Damn the man! Save the empire.....

ezatnova · 08-13-2008, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quisp

I got the stage 2, and wow, what a difference. I missed that old tap the gas and pass feeling.It is different though. I get the normal pickup when i hit the gas, but then at about 5000 there is another surge. I am going to drive it some more today where i can focus on the car rather than Dallas traffic. And no I will still be here trying to figure this out with you guys. I still get to look forward to HPFP problems and who knows what else so I am not letting them go.(plus I had to pay Dinan to do something BMW should have done to some degree)
I am hoping to hear back from the attorney and hear what he thinks about the way the car is advertised and what has happened with 29.2.
I think we are going to need more people as a group to get BMW to really notice. 30+ people is not much for BMW US. I am not giving up though, I think once something starts to happen, many more names will be on the list. Probably some wait and see what happens going on.
You said your dealer acknowledged the problem, but for lemon law BMW is who they go after, and thats the one who has to acknowledge it. If the dealer put it in writing somewhere then that works, but if the dealer has to talk to a lawyer about it with BMW looking over his shoulder....some dealers might change their story. I do not know the people you deal with, so I do not want to say that they would. The other trick is that the repair attempts have to be documented. If the dealer says they will look at it and it isnt on the ticket or in the system, that one won't count. This is a trick that service depts use to keep the count from going up. They say it verbally and do not put it on work order. Then if it becomes an issue, there are only SOME of the times you brought it in for that problem.
Either way, we, the oppressed shall overcome and one day rule the highways again....
Damn the man! Save the empire.....

Sounds good. Good luck! Enjoy that Dinan Stage 2 and maybe start a new thread witha full review once you drive it a bit. I am really hoping the JB3 works for me, since it's 40% of the cost of the Dinan, a bunch more power, and you never have to argue with the dealer "yes, this problem IS covered...just bill Dinan" since you can just yank it and it's undetectable (my dealer is non-Dinan which doesn't help...they regularly bash them). The thing is, I'll spring for the Dinan and deal with it if it's the only TRUE way to eliminate this lag and exhaust noise mess. The BEST CASE scenario is - BMW fixes our damn cars, and then I get a JB3 on top of that

RBBMWE46M3 · 08-13-2008, 09:50 AM

I have an idea....Ileen Cavanaugh left me her direct line to BMWNA. This is the lady who says that she has not recived one call for lag or fuel pump probelms...How bout all of us contact her and complain about our lag....

One more thing also...when I told her that I know of over 20 other 335 owners that have the same problem I do she says "where did you get this information, in an online fourm?"....what friggin difference does it make where I got it?" She made me feel like I was surfing gay porn.

201-263-8234

Let her have it

stressdoc · 08-13-2008, 10:16 AM

My 335 E90 was built the first week of production. I got it in Munich in Sept 2006. I was coming from an E46 323i, so the difference in power was phenomenal, but I do have experience with a fair number of other high performance cars. Regardless, I found the power curve of the 335 to be fantastic. I am a rallye amateur and not a drag strip guy, but timing 0-60 runs the car was great, sub-5 sec. In comparison with some other 335s that I had the chance to drive, my seat of the pants told me that my car had a slightly hotter tune. I speculated that this was because I got one of the rumored "press" tunes (see C&D report). Anyway, this spring I was hearing a touch of rattle at idle, and took her in for an oil change and swapping out tires. The rattle disappeared, but the car has not seemed to have quite the same punch that it did before. WOT in second gear does not break tires loose like it used to. It sounds different at idle, and at slow speeds in a parking garage. I am about to call my SA and ask what Progman they installed.

dmboone25 · 08-13-2008, 10:19 AM

Ok--so I called into BMW NA, in order to complain, again, about my 135 and the turbo lag that it displays.

First of all, the guy I talked to, Dan, was very cordial and polite. He did not, however, have ANY idea what I was talking about. He told me that my call was the first, good or bad, that he has had on the 1 series at all. He also said the NO OTHER 3 or 5 series owners with the N54 engine had called in to complain about the turbo lag. He also had no record of the previous call I made, which was in June, in which that representative told me to contact my dealer (and I stupidly did not get his name) to inquire about potential solutions to my turbo lag problem.

Second of all--he didn't seem to know anything about the v80/81, the change in March 2008, or Progman 29.2 and any of the bs that comes with it. I got the impression that the lingo on that level went above and beyond what he had been trained to deal with.

Third of all, I have made numerous call to my Service Advisor at my dealership over this issue--only to be told that, again, no one else has complained about this and that there was nothing in any of the BMW-generated bulletins that addressed my concerns.

One thing he did know, however, was what a PUMA case was. After I had vented for a few minutes, he actually asked me what would make my situation better. Not as a smartass--he really wanted to know. I told him, basically, that I either wanted the car that I thought I was buying (like the ones I based my purchasing decision on, pre-v81/29.2) or I wanted to start a conversation about the validity of my contract (because the car performs substantially differently than the ones I based my purchasing decsion on). He told me, truthfully I think, that he wasn't sure if a buy-back would be available on the facts that I had presented him. I inquired about opening a PUMA case, just as a starting point.

Thus--he contacted my dealer to find out when the regional tech would be back in (I guess they are there every 3-4 weeks) and it looks like early September is the first time I could get my car seen by him. Dan then told me it might be possible to open a PUMA case based on the representations I had made to him on the phone--this was something that would be decided in the upcoming days.

Basically, it seems as though there is something in the works for me to get an appointment with this regional tech person the next time he is in Indianapolis. Dan gave me his extension, and let me know that I could call him back if I wanted to inquire further about the process and where it was.

BMW NA # 800.831.1117 Dan's extention is 6250.

I guess we will see......

Speed_Addict · 08-13-2008, 12:25 PM

Saw the following in another thread here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160834

Quote:

A few more details on my fuel pump. My car has been in the shop for a few days due to another rash of limp modes. When the tech drove the car it hesitates and accelerated with reduced power (power of Mini) constantly and BMW still did not want to give me new pump. The tech deemed my car unsafe and will not sign off on it so it is back to BMW again. It seem 2009 production cars come before you safety because that is were all 3rd generation pumps are right now and no one getting new pumps for several months.

The 2nd generation pumps will generally not fail like the first generation pumps. They will typically die of slow uneventful death like mine. Most will never notice the reduced power it will cause.

A few notes about pump versions, fuel program delivery and behaviours

• The first production run of pumps have been mostly replaced by a new version released about 9 months.
• The revised pump released 9 months ago is what most people have. It is not really a fix and will eventually fail down the road. Everyone has this pump or the first run production pumps.
• The 3rd generation pumps are going to 2009 model car only. It means you can’t get one unless you car 100% dead. You are not likely to have a dead pump with 2nd generation pumps as BMW made software adjustment to prevent this. What you will have is crippled or poorly performing car.
• As of 27.xx CIP the programming will reduce throttle position when fuel demand can’t be meet so the slowly failing fuel pump will run normally although you get reduced power. This is part of the workaround with the stop gap fix the 2nd generation pumps provide. You will never no the difference they thought.
• An auto will short shift under moderate to high acceleration is DS mode to reduce load if fuel demand can not be meet pre the new programming. This happen because throttle postion is being cut under accelartion.
• Expect really bad gas mileage. I am getting 9 MPG.
• If you brake heavily and go around 90-180 degree corner you may have little or no acceleration of on exit. This is now the most common complaint even with ½ filled fuel tanks.
• You can expect some lag or sort of hesitation that progressively get worse. If you have tune then you’re going to notice a lot more.

Orb

Sounds like there could be a strong tie here - would make sense. If you can't supply the fuel to meet the boosted intake requirements don't close the waste gates.... So, the affect may be felt as being a turbo/waste gate issue but really is drivent up stream by a software change intended to save/lengthen the life of the fuel pump. All speculation here on my part - I will note I am no expert.

Just thought I would add this information to this thread as I had noted there was no mention of it for what, it may be worth...

08-12-2008, 05:26 PM	#596
thefitter Enlisted Member 6 Rep 38 Posts Drives: 2007 335i, 2002 325i Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NOR*CAL iTrader: (0)	Someone just told me that 29.1 is still good it's only 29.2 when things went to shit. What do you think? BS?
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08-12-2008, 08:51 PM	#600
coco_m3 Brigadier General 166 Rep 4,311 Posts Drives: Supercharged E90 M3 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: SL,UT iTrader: (1) Garage List 2008 BMW M3 [0.00] 2010 BMW E90 335i [0.00]	Well i took my car in this morning and told them my car had long starts and they said they would check it out and i told them about the lag also and they said they would check that out aswell. So after 8 hours i go and pick it up and i have a new HPFP and he said that that my car is running like it should. so i dont know? My little test was 1st gear start off and WOT and i dont get turbo power till 3100 rpm. WTF! they better get this fixed soon! __________________
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08-12-2008, 09:19 PM	#602
coco_m3 Brigadier General 166 Rep 4,311 Posts Drives: Supercharged E90 M3 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: SL,UT iTrader: (1) Garage List 2008 BMW M3 [0.00] 2010 BMW E90 335i [0.00]	its funny how they advertise NO TURBO LAG. then when you buy the car, THERE IS TUBRO LAG! __________________
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08-12-2008, 09:28 PM	#603
RBBMWE46M3 blaupunkt 56 Rep 525 Posts Drives: 2008 335xi 6spman montego Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: THE REGION iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 x5 [0.00] 1972 R75/5 [0.00] 2008 335xi [0.00]	It is about 10:30 am here in the great Midwest and I just got a call from BMWNA and the nice lady says..."Good morning Mr.. Hoosier this is BMW OF NA calling regarding your 2008 335xi. What exactly is wrong with your car?" and I say " long starts and turbo lag" she says " who are you dealing with at Levin" .......hang on phone is ringing.....5 min later...that was BMWNA calling back, this is going to be a long thread with what she just told me so bear with me....I told her the shop Forman's name (Jason) she says "I am going to call Jason and talk to him. I will call you back and let you know what he says. What we would like to do is get an engineer to your house (wait till the engineer sees all the BMW's I have heheh) and let him go for a ride with you. I will be calling you back" I say ok and she calls me back just now as I was typing this to all of you and says" Mr. Hoosier are they coming to get your car tomorrow? " I say yes and she says" Jason tells me he drove with you in your car and he says that he cannot detect a problem" (by the way, that test drive was back in the beginning of June) OH MY FUCKING GOD...THIS IS THE SAME ASS HOLE WHO TOLD ME TO DRIVE IT FOR 1500 MI AND LET IT BREAK IN AND THEN WE WILL RE-EVALUATE...anyway. I then tell her " I had the Service Manager and the Sales Manager take it for a ride and they both agreed that I have a turbo lag problem...hang on ...phone again....ok that was My salesman ( wow this is crazy) asking me what is going on. He just told me that he has to come in tomorrow for some sort of meeting about my car on HIS DAY OFF... HAHAHAHHAHAH Is this crazy or what? Anyway, the lady at BMWNA is leaning towards getting me an engineer to my HOUSE to go for a test drive with me. Can you believe this?? Getting back to what she says last is...now get this...I ask her if she has any, and I mean ANY, problems with anyone that has contacted her with a turbo lag...fuel pump...wastegate problem with the 335 and she says......NO...NO MR. HOOSIER, YOU ARE THE FIRST PERSON THAT I HAVE HEARD THAT HAS THIS PROBLEM...My car goes in tomorrow for an ecu upgrade is what my salesman told me is what they are going to try first. Im' sure I sound that I'm rambling on and on but I wanted to give you a heads up on what BMWNA is puking out. It is now 9pm and I am just finishing this thread ( I took the kids flying ) I will let all of you know what happens tomorrow after they get my car and flash it. I have a feeling they are going to tell me "Mr. Hoosier, we cannot simulate any of your problems" and then I let BMWNA have it.... __________________ BMW ENGINEERS
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08-12-2008, 09:54 PM	#604
visor BMW, can I have some LSD please? 88 Rep 1,591 Posts Drives: 2017 F30 340i xDrive Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Vancouver, Canada iTrader: (0)	^ Wow, we're all rooting for you for a constructive visit with the engineer! On another note, I test drove an auto 335i sedan today. Brand new with 15km. Coming from a 330i, I thought it was noticeably quite powerful above 2000 rpms. Don't know about which version progman though... __________________ 2006 330i \| TiAg \| Black \| Al \| 6MT \| Sports Package \| Logic 7 retired 2008 335i \| AW \| Black \| Al \| 6MT \| Sports Package \| Logic 7 retired 2013 328xi \| Red \| Gray \| Al \| 8AT \| Sports Line \| Premium \| Executive \| Heat Pkg retired 2017 340i xDrive \| Estoril \| Black \| Al \| 8AT \| M Package
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08-13-2008, 12:22 AM	#605
Quisp Does not play well with others 80 Rep 1,787 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arizona iTrader: (4)	I looked into the Lemon Law possibility and one thing I think that might be a problem is that they would have to acknowledge that the problem exists first, then attempt to repair it a certain amount of times in a period of time. Since they dont acknowledge the problem, they havent atempted to fix it, and that could give them a loophole. I did find a different way to look at this and I will ask someone about this(if anyone knows a lawyer they may want to ask as well). This might fall under breach of contract for those people leasing or financing. You would have to read the agreement and find out what BMW is responsible for providing per the contract you have with them. If they do not live up to everything that is written on the agreement, then that would be breach of contract. Just as if you didnt live up to your end of the deal. Just some more thoughts to toss around. I spent 14 hours today getting my Dinan stage2 so I am a bit fuzzy headed but the way that the phrases "running as it should" and "we can not duplicate your problem" are being tossed out, I think that maybe it wouldnt be a bad idea to contact someone in your state that specializes in consumer law and see what they think about all this nonsense. Can't hurt and the consult doesnt cost anything. Maybe some letters from lawyers will get a response, who knows? __________________
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08-13-2008, 09:29 AM	#611
Quisp Does not play well with others 80 Rep 1,787 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arizona iTrader: (4)	I got the stage 2, and wow, what a difference. I missed that old tap the gas and pass feeling.It is different though. I get the normal pickup when i hit the gas, but then at about 5000 there is another surge. I am going to drive it some more today where i can focus on the car rather than Dallas traffic. And no I will still be here trying to figure this out with you guys. I still get to look forward to HPFP problems and who knows what else so I am not letting them go.(plus I had to pay Dinan to do something BMW should have done to some degree) I am hoping to hear back from the attorney and hear what he thinks about the way the car is advertised and what has happened with 29.2. I think we are going to need more people as a group to get BMW to really notice. 30+ people is not much for BMW US. I am not giving up though, I think once something starts to happen, many more names will be on the list. Probably some wait and see what happens going on. You said your dealer acknowledged the problem, but for lemon law BMW is who they go after, and thats the one who has to acknowledge it. If the dealer put it in writing somewhere then that works, but if the dealer has to talk to a lawyer about it with BMW looking over his shoulder....some dealers might change their story. I do not know the people you deal with, so I do not want to say that they would. The other trick is that the repair attempts have to be documented. If the dealer says they will look at it and it isnt on the ticket or in the system, that one won't count. This is a trick that service depts use to keep the count from going up. They say it verbally and do not put it on work order. Then if it becomes an issue, there are only SOME of the times you brought it in for that problem. Either way, we, the oppressed shall overcome and one day rule the highways again.... Damn the man! Save the empire..... __________________
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08-13-2008, 09:50 AM	#613
RBBMWE46M3 blaupunkt 56 Rep 525 Posts Drives: 2008 335xi 6spman montego Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: THE REGION iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 x5 [0.00] 1972 R75/5 [0.00] 2008 335xi [0.00]	I have an idea....Ileen Cavanaugh left me her direct line to BMWNA. This is the lady who says that she has not recived one call for lag or fuel pump probelms...How bout all of us contact her and complain about our lag.... One more thing also...when I told her that I know of over 20 other 335 owners that have the same problem I do she says "where did you get this information, in an online fourm?"....what friggin difference does it make where I got it?" She made me feel like I was surfing gay porn. 201-263-8234 Let her have it __________________ BMW ENGINEERS
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08-13-2008, 10:16 AM	#614
stressdoc Moderator 617 Rep 10,855 Posts Drives: BMW i8; Toy 4runner TRD pro Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Waco TX iTrader: (0)	My 335 E90 was built the first week of production. I got it in Munich in Sept 2006. I was coming from an E46 323i, so the difference in power was phenomenal, but I do have experience with a fair number of other high performance cars. Regardless, I found the power curve of the 335 to be fantastic. I am a rallye amateur and not a drag strip guy, but timing 0-60 runs the car was great, sub-5 sec. In comparison with some other 335s that I had the chance to drive, my seat of the pants told me that my car had a slightly hotter tune. I speculated that this was because I got one of the rumored "press" tunes (see C&D report). Anyway, this spring I was hearing a touch of rattle at idle, and took her in for an oil change and swapping out tires. The rattle disappeared, but the car has not seemed to have quite the same punch that it did before. WOT in second gear does not break tires loose like it used to. It sounds different at idle, and at slow speeds in a parking garage. I am about to call my SA and ask what Progman they installed. __________________ My recent ED photos: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1026808 my not-so-recent ED: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31829 Please join BMWCCA http://bmwcca.org/index.php?pageid=c...&ref_by=300279
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08-13-2008, 10:19 AM	#615
dmboone25 Lieutenant General 4972 Rep 10,200 Posts Drives: 2024 Golf R / 2022 718 Spyder Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Dallas, TX iTrader: (0) Garage List 2007 E92 328i [10.00] 2007 328i [10.00]	Call to BMW NA Ok--so I called into BMW NA, in order to complain, again, about my 135 and the turbo lag that it displays. First of all, the guy I talked to, Dan, was very cordial and polite. He did not, however, have ANY idea what I was talking about. He told me that my call was the first, good or bad, that he has had on the 1 series at all. He also said the NO OTHER 3 or 5 series owners with the N54 engine had called in to complain about the turbo lag. He also had no record of the previous call I made, which was in June, in which that representative told me to contact my dealer (and I stupidly did not get his name) to inquire about potential solutions to my turbo lag problem. Second of all--he didn't seem to know anything about the v80/81, the change in March 2008, or Progman 29.2 and any of the bs that comes with it. I got the impression that the lingo on that level went above and beyond what he had been trained to deal with. Third of all, I have made numerous call to my Service Advisor at my dealership over this issue--only to be told that, again, no one else has complained about this and that there was nothing in any of the BMW-generated bulletins that addressed my concerns. One thing he did know, however, was what a PUMA case was. After I had vented for a few minutes, he actually asked me what would make my situation better. Not as a smartass--he really wanted to know. I told him, basically, that I either wanted the car that I thought I was buying (like the ones I based my purchasing decision on, pre-v81/29.2) or I wanted to start a conversation about the validity of my contract (because the car performs substantially differently than the ones I based my purchasing decsion on). He told me, truthfully I think, that he wasn't sure if a buy-back would be available on the facts that I had presented him. I inquired about opening a PUMA case, just as a starting point. Thus--he contacted my dealer to find out when the regional tech would be back in (I guess they are there every 3-4 weeks) and it looks like early September is the first time I could get my car seen by him. Dan then told me it might be possible to open a PUMA case based on the representations I had made to him on the phone--this was something that would be decided in the upcoming days. Basically, it seems as though there is something in the works for me to get an appointment with this regional tech person the next time he is in Indianapolis. Dan gave me his extension, and let me know that I could call him back if I wanted to inquire further about the process and where it was. BMW NA # 800.831.1117 Dan's extention is 6250. I guess we will see...... __________________ Past rides: 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
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