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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > More Vishnu PWM Datalogs (lots of logs for those resistant to change)



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      05-11-2011, 01:19 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjrulz View Post

Ease of install or cost is not the point of any of these threads. $1k wouldn't break most of our bank accounts. Ease of install will surely sell the majority of newbish buyers (not a bad thing at all).

However, the point is what is the actual/realistic performance benefit of having this over what is out currently.
Fine! Even if I was willing to concede the fact that it may or may not differentiate itself over an off-the-shelf system that requires customization (a point Shiv is OBVIOUSLY not conceding), why do you or anyone else care!?!? I just don't get why people are SO incensed by this .....I'm not necessarily directing that at you personally, but look at the threads, it's obviously people have made this personal, not objective.....and BTW, it's NOT $1,000.

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Originally Posted by themyst View Post
I guess you forgot about that hole you have to drill in your windshield washer tank, but that doesn't bother you since it just works, right? Hope you can explain that hole or figuring out how simple the uninstall really is when it comes time to make a warranty claim. If you don't want to do that to your 9000 mile old car, you'll have a mess of "spaghetti" wiring from your trunk to your engine bay regardless. Hope you enjoy your easy install meth kit.
Seriously? You just must love to argue....you don't drill a hole in the washer tank, worst case, to drill the cap which costs what $3? $4 to replace? As far as "spaghetti", you must know better than that. Look at any of the DIY's for trunk mounts, INCLUDING Vishnu's. You have a tank (mounted directly above your battery no less), feeding a pump, feeding controllers making by my count 5 meth tubing connection points BEFORE it ever leaves your trunk along with all the wiring and relays. Most of them look like a small stereo install. From there you drill a hole(s), and run what? with bends 15' of tubing and wiring up to the front? Leave it exposed and you run the risk of weather or debris damage. Hide it somehow and it's that much more work to undo every time you take the car in for a oil change, or to fix a simple rattle. Are you seriously suggesting these systems are the same in that regard?

Rational or not, I use my trunk daily and would never have all that back there nor do I want it a foot or two from where my daughter sits when she's in my car. If I'm going to have a problem I'd rather have it in the engine bay...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tscdennab View Post
Too bad. You already have a spaghetti of wires in your trunk from BMW, and you already have gauges in your car from BMW to help you know if things work ok or not, like oil gauge, fuel gauge, etc. If you put just a little effort you can add your spaghetti of wires and make them look OEM, you can add your gauge and make it look OEM and you will save your engine in the end by keeping an eye on things. And maybe avoid a disaster by having a meth pump failing because of the engine bay heat, or by avoiding flamable meth vapors in your engine bay...
Not one single thing you said makes any sense to me......except for the last line. Let me ask you this since you bring it up... would your rather have multiple points of leakage or a pump failure, however unlikely, INSIDE the car or a far simpler setup in the engine bay?

Edit: Last post on this topic until I get it and start using it and perhaps post feedback....I'm kicking myself (hard) for allowing myself to get sucked into arguing about this!!
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      05-11-2011, 01:25 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by topspin View Post
Boy these threads are just a microcosm of the world we live in today. People choose sides straight away, make passionate arguments to support or attack ideas, are generally rude and somewhat childish with the way they argue, don't admit when they are wrong, all while not bothering to wait for better, more accurate information.

It sort of reminds me of politics. But that's another story altogether.

I hope many of you are displaying alter egos. I can't imagine that most people are like this in their work environments. You have to love the internet where you can behave anyway you want in an relatively anonymous fashion with no repercussions.
Agreed. And when they are wrong and asked for proof deflect the question with attacks or opinions with no data backup.
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      05-11-2011, 01:50 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by chumley View Post
Fine! Even if I was willing to concede the fact that it may or may not differentiate itself over an off-the-shelf system that requires customization (a point Shiv is OBVIOUSLY not conceding), why do you or anyone else care!?!? I just don't get why people are SO incensed by this .....I'm not necessarily directing that at you personally, but look at the threads, it's obviously people have made this personal, not objective.....and BTW, it's NOT $1,000.



Seriously? You just must love to argue....you don't drill a hole in the washer tank, worst case, to drill the cap which costs what $3? $4 to replace? As far as "spaghetti", you must know better than that. Look at any of the DIY's for trunk mounts, INCLUDING Vishnu's. You have a tank (mounted directly above your battery no less), feeding a pump, feeding controllers making by my count 5 meth tubing connection points BEFORE it ever leaves your trunk along with all the wiring and relays. Most of them look like a small stereo install. From there you drill a hole(s), and run what? with bends 15' of tubing and wiring up to the front? Leave it exposed and you run the risk of weather or debris damage. Hide it somehow and it's that much more work to undo every time you take the car in for a oil change, or to fix a simple rattle. Are you seriously suggesting these systems are the same in that regard?

Rational or not, I use my trunk daily and would never have all that back there nor do I want it a foot or two from where my daughter sits when she's in my car. If I'm going to have a problem I'd rather have it in the engine bay...



Not one single thing you said makes any sense to me......except for the last line. Let me ask you this since you bring it up... would your rather have multiple points of leakage or a pump failure, however unlikely, INSIDE the car or a far simpler setup in the engine bay?

Edit: Last post on this topic until I get it and start using it and perhaps post feedback....I'm kicking myself (hard) for allowing myself to get sucked into arguing about this!!
hate to do this but....

..+1

it's obvious in reading through this thread and the others that this has become a personal attack...moreso than just prove that product A has benefits over product B. i've lost respect for some members because even when presented with hard facts and info...their pride gets in the way and won't allow the mere thought that maybe...just maybe...there is a better way to do something.

shits old.
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      05-11-2011, 01:54 PM   #70
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      05-11-2011, 01:56 PM   #71
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      05-11-2011, 02:08 PM   #72
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      05-11-2011, 03:48 PM   #73
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I have read this entire thread as well as others..I see it this way, between both methods I feel they both work fine on our cars and the advantage over the other is subjective....Whether one system is more effective than the other, I choose to leave that alone...As for the offering from Shiv with his new kit PWM kit, its perfect for those running Procede and are new to the game of meth injection...It basically takes away the fear of meth and basically dummies the installation for you...I personally have the old system and its functional and my logs show this...For me its a no brainer to stay with my old kit as I have too much invested in it to change over, but those that are new to the game of meth and have Procede, its a clear choice...As for the markup on the price, I will leave that alone also..
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      05-11-2011, 04:21 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Clap135 View Post
Hurt myself or hurt you? lol Im going to take that as a no, you wont give me the logs....just like I figured, however it was worth as shot after Alex brought it up.
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      05-11-2011, 04:25 PM   #75
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Clap, I know it sucks that you can't drive your car because it's constantly in the shop. But I guess that's what you get when you fail to see what's good for your car and what's not. You should really quit acting like a smartass cuz honestly it's just making you look bad and like a stubborn eight year old child who can't accept that santa claus doesn't exist.
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      05-11-2011, 04:29 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topspin View Post
Boy these threads are just a microcosm of the world we live in today. People choose sides straight away, make passionate arguments to support or attack ideas, are generally rude and somewhat childish with the way they argue, don't admit when they are wrong, all while not bothering to wait for better, more accurate information.

It sort of reminds me of politics. But that's another story altogether.

I hope many of you are displaying alter egos. I can't imagine that most people are like this in their work environments. You have to love the internet where you can behave anyway you want in an relatively anonymous fashion with no repercussions.
I concur, for some people it seems easy to lose their dignity and self respect on the internet. What they dont appear to understand is that they come out as ignorant and childish even if they are correct about something.
I will close this reply with a quote "I think i am done".
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      05-11-2011, 05:09 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumley View Post
Fine! Even if I was willing to concede the fact that it may or may not differentiate itself over an off-the-shelf system that requires customization (a point Shiv is OBVIOUSLY not conceding), why do you or anyone else care!?!? I just don't get why people are SO incensed by this .....I'm not necessarily directing that at you personally, but look at the threads, it's obviously people have made this personal, not objective.....and BTW, it's NOT $1,000.



Seriously? You just must love to argue....you don't drill a hole in the washer tank, worst case, to drill the cap which costs what $3? $4 to replace? As far as "spaghetti", you must know better than that. Look at any of the DIY's for trunk mounts, INCLUDING Vishnu's. You have a tank (mounted directly above your battery no less), feeding a pump, feeding controllers making by my count 5 meth tubing connection points BEFORE it ever leaves your trunk along with all the wiring and relays. Most of them look like a small stereo install. From there you drill a hole(s), and run what? with bends 15' of tubing and wiring up to the front? Leave it exposed and you run the risk of weather or debris damage. Hide it somehow and it's that much more work to undo every time you take the car in for a oil change, or to fix a simple rattle. Are you seriously suggesting these systems are the same in that regard?

Rational or not, I use my trunk daily and would never have all that back there nor do I want it a foot or two from where my daughter sits when she's in my car. If I'm going to have a problem I'd rather have it in the engine bay...



Not one single thing you said makes any sense to me......except for the last line. Let me ask you this since you bring it up... would your rather have multiple points of leakage or a pump failure, however unlikely, INSIDE the car or a far simpler setup in the engine bay?

Edit: Last post on this topic until I get it and start using it and perhaps post feedback....I'm kicking myself (hard) for allowing myself to get sucked into arguing about this!!



Why would I NOT care? I shouldn't need to say this because I've said it in other threads, but I'm totally not against Clap or Shiv. I think Shiv has done some awesome stuff and I appreciate all the things he's done in the community. I also appreciate that Clap has the cajones to question authority and inform the community without quietly caving and handing over his credit card.

It has gotten to a personal level and this is a big reason why I've stopped checking these threads so often and gone on to do my own research, unfortunately.

I want more information because I want the best for my car. Therefore I want proof that PWM is better, BOTTOM LINE.
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      05-11-2011, 05:21 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjrulz View Post
Why would I NOT care? I shouldn't need to say this because I've said it in other threads, but I'm totally not against Clap or Shiv. I think Shiv has done some awesome stuff and I appreciate all the things he's done in the community. I also appreciate that Clap has the cajones to question authority and inform the community without quietly caving and handing over his credit card.

It has gotten to a personal level and this is a big reason why I've stopped checking these threads so often and gone on to do my own research, unfortunately.

I want more information because I want the best for my car. Therefore I want proof that PWM is better, BOTTOM LINE.
Questioning "authority" is fine. But what gets tiresome is never admitting that you may be wrong/misinformed. And then doing whatever you can to confuse issues by jumping from one argument to another while slinging insults and peppering profanity like it's going out of style. It's this commando duck and weave, never-give-up tactic that no one benefits from.
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      05-11-2011, 05:26 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Questioning "authority" is fine. But what gets tiresome is never admitting that you may be wrong/misinformed. And then doing whatever you can to confuse issues by jumping from one argument to another while slinging insults and peppering profanity like it's going out of style. It's this commando duck and weave, never-give-up tactic that no one benefits from.
I agree it has gotten tense. It does seem like the argument has splattered. However it's both parties at fault. Clap started jumping around and both of you verbally "attacked" one another's intelligence.

That was the breaking point for me.


I'll do some reading and hopefully by the end of the month I'll get the information I need and rebuy everything once again (just had my 2nd part out).


I want perfection for my car. The money spent isn't my concern, quality is however. It has treated me better than any other car, no issues, no complaints and I plan on keeping it until the end. In terms of this meth battle, I'll wait until the dust clears because right now I'm not sold either way.
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      05-11-2011, 06:34 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post


You are behaving like Clap. Where did I say that we are drilling the bottle? There is no bottle drilling. Period. Even if you want to use the full capacity of the tank. So please stop spreading misinformation. There is a way to do this. And it takes about 15 seconds. Thanks to Jeff Howerton for giving us this little trick.
Are you guys just tapping into the wiper fluid lines or do you have a drop-in to the wiper tank?

FYI, I think someone needs to come out with a better wiper fluid cap as it opens very easily. I have my duct taped down when meth is in there, I don't want that thing opening during driving.
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      05-11-2011, 09:08 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Questioning "authority" is fine. But what gets tiresome is never admitting that you may be wrong/misinformed. And then doing whatever you can to confuse issues by jumping from one argument to another while slinging insults and peppering profanity like it's going out of style. It's this commando duck and weave, never-give-up tactic that no one benefits from.
It also gets tiresome when youavoid simple questions.
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      05-12-2011, 12:20 AM   #82
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It would be REALLY nice if we could stay on topic. Which I've forgotten by now. Thank you.
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      05-12-2011, 04:03 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumley View Post
Bottom line - I will never put a meth tank and the spaghetti of wires, tubing connections and controllers in my trunk, I don't want a gauge, leds, etc in my car to know it's working, and I don't want to waste my time testing nozzles in my daily driver. If this was a project car maybe I'd think otherwise but I have 9,000 miles on my car and love that this can be installed/uninstalled in a short period of time. Integration with the PROcede with respect to maps and dash light indicators make this a no brainer - at least for me.
+1 I know this kit will perform just well as any other kits out there, plus easy to install/uninstall. PROceed, dash light indicators...its already winning. I don't expect meth kit to magically bump up my hp/tq to 600. As long as they work and simple to maintain that yet it does perform GREAT! Props to Vishnu. Just like this thread Shiv Clap, Shiv Clap, Shiv Clap, Shiv , Shiv , Shiv
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