Next GEN I-DRIVE Retrofit

Patrys@BimmerTech · 01-12-2010, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartronics GB

Maybe I will cycle the iginton a few times BEFORE i code the car.

OR ......

Thougths on this.

if above is true, ie works until coded (which in effect ties it into the CAS/LM).

When I code the car I will ONLY code relevent parts of the CIC, ie I will not recode the NAV.. I will not recode the Voice (if it works) but code additional
features needed & or remove items not needed .

By doing this the Nav still thinks its coded to the donor card.

?????????????????? Maybe

Thanks for the heads up will check that out as well.

Coding your CIC or the whole car has nothing to do with the Navigation.
Probably the only way is to get the FSC codes for your VIN.

I have also heard that somebody activated a used CIC in another car, but I have no details on this. For sure simple coding will not help.

cartronics GB · 01-12-2010, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrys

Usually after 2-3 restart procedures your CIC should deactivate the Navigation. You can send the restart command to your CIC or close the door and wait a few minutes then start the car and if you see the BMW logo the CIC is restarting or you can force your CIC to restart by pressing the power button for 25 seconds.

The VIN in your CIC doesn't match with the actual one. That's why the FSC codes are VIN specific.

the car has had at a guess 20 restarts (inc battery hard resets) and it still ok so im guessing once coded problems occur?

cartronics GB · 01-12-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrys

Coding your CIC or the whole car has nothing to do with the Navigation.
Probably the only way is to get the FSC codes for your VIN.

I have also heard that somebody activated a used CIC in another car, but I have no details on this. For sure simple coding will not help.

No your right coding has no function in the abilty for nav to work, but it may (if custom coded as mentioned) allow the unit not to turn off. (not ideal but a workaround).

We will see, if the unit stays working in its state now (ie not coded) then
the theory must hold...

Its all R&D ....

Fun fun fun.

Technic · 01-12-2010, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartronics GB

the car has had at a guess 20 restarts (inc battery hard resets) and it still ok so im guessing once coded problems occur?

Unless you got a magical CIC, unfortunately somehow sooner or later the Nav will be disabled, be by number of ignition cycles or by coding.

I explained that to Autologic, they need to get the FSC codes somehow, somewhere if this is to be done correctly.

But... what I like about all this is that at least Autologic is working physically with your car, as so far they were working with my car thru emails only.

cartronics GB · 01-12-2010, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

Unless you got a magical CIC, unfortunately somehow sooner or later the Nav will be disabled, be by number of ignition cycles or by coding.

I explained that to Autologic, they need to get the FSC codes somehow, somewhere if this is to be done correctly.

Im sure your right.. would be nice to know how.

Yep FSC codes is the way forward.

Is the reason BMW USA would not let you have the FSC codes based on :
VIN shows car never had it fitted (ie VIN range or the VIN number).
OR the car was to old to (pre CIC swap over) to have CIC?

Patrys@BimmerTech · 01-12-2010, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartronics GB

No your right coding has no function in the abilty for nav to work, but it may (if custom coded as mentioned) allow the unit not to turn off. (not ideal but a workaround).

We will see, if the unit stays working in its state now (ie not coded) then
the theory must hold...

Its all R&D ....

Fun fun fun.

In my case it didn't work. The navigation stopped working before I coded my CIC. It looks like a CIC verifies the VIN with other ECUs in the car, so once you connect it to the CAN bus sooner or later it will probably stop working.
Anyway, fingers crossed !

cartronics GB · 01-12-2010, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrys

In my case it didn't work. The navigation stopped working before I coded my CIC. It looks like a CIC verifies the VIN with other ECUs in the car, so once you connect it to the CAN bus sooner or later it will probably stop working.
Anyway, fingers crossed !

Stopped quite quick then?

The CIC is hooked up to the car, the ID of the car is located in CAS/FM(lm) & instument cluster and the cars chatting away to them all inc the CIC as I was comms with all the modules ... VERY ODD.

Saying that probably stop working in the morning.. lol

Technic · 01-12-2010, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartronics GB

Im sure your right.. would be nice to know how.

Yep FSC codes is the way forward.

Is the reason BMW USA would not let you have the FSC codes based on :
VIN shows car never had it fitted (ie VIN range or the VIN number).
OR the car was to old to (pre CIC swap over) to have CIC?

BMWNA is not generating FSC codes for any car that does not have a factory-installed CIC, or so they say.

What I think is the main problem is that BMW really does not know what software problems a CIC can introduce into an older car with modules that most probably were updated (hardware and software) for MY2009-on. I don't think that they have tested or even planned to test a retrofit of the new iDrive in older vehicles... they want customers to buy a new vehicle.

However, there's a document that also states that BMW can sell you the FSC codes, but it does not say how or how much is the price. No USA dealer that I contacted knows how to order the FSC codes for a price.

cartronics GB · 01-12-2010, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

BMWNA is not generating FSC codes for any car that does not have a factory-installed CIC, or so they say.

What I think is the main problem is that BMW really does not know what software problems a CIC can introduce into an older car with modules that most probably were updated (hardware and software) for MY2009-on. I don't think that they have tested or even planned to test a retrofit of the new iDrive in older vehicles... they want customers to buy a new vehicle.

However, there's a document that also states that BMW can sell you the FSC codes, but it does not say how or how much is the price. No USA dealer that I contacted knows how to order the FSC codes for a price.

Do you know if a 2009 car with CIC from factory has a software update at dealership, will the CIC prompt for the FSC code again or is it one input for life?

Technic · 01-12-2010, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartronics GB

Do you know if a 2009 car with CIC from factory has a software update at dealership, will the CIC prompt for the FSC code again or is it one input for life?

My understanding is that once you load the FSC codes that CIC becomes "married" to the VIN of the vehicle and to no other. So either you need to load new FSC codes to override the FSC already loaded or there's a completely different process (refurbish) to clean up/erase the CIC before loading new codes.

That's what we are going to discover hopefully soon.

cartronics GB · 01-12-2010, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

My understanding is that once you load the FSC codes that CIC becomes "married" to the VIN of the vehicle and to no other. So either you need to load new FSC codes to override the FSC already loaded or there's a completely different process (refurbish) to clean up/erase the CIC before loading new codes.

That's what we are going to discover hopefully soon.

And a new update map from spares at a later date, would this need a NEW code to enable it to work?

Patrys@BimmerTech · 01-12-2010, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

My understanding is that once you load the FSC codes that CIC becomes "married" to the VIN of the vehicle and to no other. So either you need to load new FSC codes to override the FSC already loaded or there's a completely different process (refurbish) to clean up/erase the CIC before loading new codes.

That's what we are going to discover hopefully soon.

We all believe that we can replace the FSC codes once stored in a CIC, but one of the BMW TSB says that a dealership cannot used a used CIC as it will not work

I am pretty sure this can be done even if ISTA/P doesn't give such possibility. There is Tools32 or other software that can probably do the job.

Technic · 01-12-2010, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrys

We all believe that we can replace the FSC codes once stored in a CIC, but one of the BMW TSB says that a dealership cannot used a used CIC as it will not work

I am pretty sure this can be done even if ISTA/P doesn't give such possibility. There is Tools32 or other software that can probably do the job.

That's the possibility of the refurbishing process that I mentioned before... so this could take another step not envisioned for used units even if the codes are found and loaded right now.

Technic · 01-12-2010, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartronics GB

And a new update map from spares at a later date, would this need a NEW code to enable it to work?

Yes, maps updates require another type of code, a 20-digit Enable codethat can either be loaded by ISTA/P or manually using the iDrive controller.

Booster4075 · 01-13-2010, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

You should post the P/N of the 1-row/8-pin connector and how to create the USB cable as nobody knows here how to get those yet, so that would help a lot those that want to do the retrofit as well. I was lucky enough to get them both with my used parts.

I posted this earlier, although I don't have it in my hands yet to confirm that its right....I understand that the 8-pin connector for the CID (bare, no pins) is 6113 6 954 526.

Fluffy bastard · 01-13-2010, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

Yes, maps updates require another type of code, a 20-digit Enable codethat can either be loaded by ISTA/P or manually using the iDrive controller.

Hmm, do you update CIC-navi?

whgmkeller · 01-13-2010, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

The new iDrive controller will not work in his 2005 E60, it is only for the 2007 CCC-on (the CCC with the 6-programmable buttons) and latest software.

@ Technic and Mark Cartronics

Guys, what are you saying? Is it totally impossible to upgrade my 2005 525D to the new CIC based iDrive system ??????????
That would really really bug me ...

Willem, Netherlands

cartronics GB · 01-13-2010, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

Something is not quite right here, that's the reason I asked that question.

When you get an CIC from a donor's car and install it in another car, both the Nav and the Voice Control will be disabled (see OEM atached document). I know of at least three CICs (new or used, no matter) that after retrofitting to another car the Nav and the Voice Control did not work, and still they do not work to this day.

Yours is the first used unit that I know that the maps are working without the FSC codes. I think that your unit is in some type of temporary state, and once you unit is fully coded then the Navigation will be also disabled like it is supposed to be.

Guys

On the navigation being disabled when connected to different car, do you get :

No Maps? Maps but in/op / or no navi menus what so ever?

TheUltimateDrivingManiac · 01-13-2010, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whgmkeller

@ Technic and Mark Cartronics

Guys, what are you saying? Is it totally impossible to upgrade my 2005 525D to the new CIC based iDrive system ??????????
That would really really bug me ...

Willem, Netherlands

Of cause it's possible, but will be cheaper to change the car.

There was a big electronics upgrade on 03/07.