[footie]

Though BMW want to compared the 1M to the TT-RS probably it's closest competitor is Audi's new RS3, both are priced very closely with the Audi being that little bit better value for money based on standard kit.

So how do they stack up on spec.

HP : both have 340 but where as the BMW is reached at a low 5900rpm the Audi's peak power in over a wide 900rpm between 5400rpm and a higher 6300rpm.

Torque : both quote 450Nm but again it's the Audi with the wider rev band and higher peak, though BMW hit back with an extra 50Nm on overboost for a limited period.

Weight : 1495kg vs 1575kg in favour of the 1M, though in fairness the Audi has more standard kit, has an awd drivetrain and extra doors.

Acceleration to 100km/h : 4.6s vs 4.9s in favour of the Audi, the advantage of LC and DSG means the 1M will have to play catchup and if the figure recorded by Autobild for the DSG TT-RS are anything to go by (3.9s - 100km/h, 9.3s -160km/h & 14.9s - 200km/h) then the 1M will have it's work cutout for it.

Roll on the comparison tests.

[Year's_End]

Waiting for reviews to measure the fun factor--the most important variable.

[Echo M3]

Originally Posted by footie

Though BMW want to compared the 1M to the TT-RS probably it's closest competitor is Audi's new RS3, both are priced very closely with the Audi being that little bit better value for money based on standard kit.

So how do they stack up on spec.

HP : both have 340 but where as the BMW is reached at a low 5900rpm the Audi's peak power in over a wide 900rpm between 5400rpm and a higher 6300rpm.

Torque : both quote 450Nm but again it's the Audi with the wider rev band and higher peak, though BMW hit back with an extra 50Nm on overboost for a limited period.

Weight : 1495kg vs 1575kg in favour of the 1M, though in fairness the Audi has more standard kit, has an awd drivetrain and extra doors.

Acceleration to 100km/h : 4.6s vs 4.9s in favour of the Audi, the advantage of LC and DSG means the 1M will have to play catchup and if the figure recorded by Autobild for the DSG TT-RS are anything to go by (3.9s - 100km/h, 9.3s -160km/h & 14.9s - 200km/h) then the 1M will have it's work cutout for it.

Roll on the comparison tests.

Raw figures aren't everything. Based on stats like these the RS5 and the IS-F should have been quicker than the E92 M3.

We'll have to wait for the comparo's, I'm afraid.

[footie]

Originally Posted by pman10

Raw figures aren't everything. Based on stats like these the RS5 and the IS-F should have been quicker than the E92 M3.

We'll have to wait for the comparo's, I'm afraid.

Well the weight was the biggest issue with the RS5, not to take anything away from the M3 but if it had have been only 80kgs heavier then I doubt the M3 would have been quicker in any review/comparison test.

You also have to consider when discussing the RS3 and 1M that one car has any extra gear to play with and doesn't run out of puff as soon, plus has a wider torque band which also runs higher up the rev range, the 1M will need it work it's overboost hard to beat it.

But you are right to say that stats are only one side and how they feel is important, it's here that I think the 1M will entertain the most and be the obvious choice to take to the track but off it and in daily life I reckon the RS3 will be a hard act to follow.

Best bet is to get both.

[BMW269]

Hard choice even for a BMW die-hard-fan. For me the 1M hands down, but it seems M GmbH forgot to put an engine.

[Raine]

One is a hatchback, the other is a coupe.

[Boost Gomez]

Footie, always weighting his posts ever so slightly in favor of Audi.

[footie]

^ I agree because that is where my heart lays. But I can fully appreciate the engineering that BMW are capable of and the truly exceptional cars that they product.

I will tell you this, if the 1M had been available at the time I bought my M3 then it would have got the nod instead.

[DougLikesBMW]

Originally Posted by footie

^ I agree because that is where my heart lays. But I can fully appreciate the engineering that BMW are capable of and the truly exceptional cars that they product.

I will tell you this, if the 1M had been available at the time I bought my M3 then it would have got the nod instead.

Why? BMW is better.

[footie]

Originally Posted by DougLikesBMW

Why? BMW is better.

That is your opinion and I respect that. Though we all don't have to agree on everything which is why there is as many competitors as there is. There are elements of each brand that appeal to me and others that don't but for my at least it's Audi that gets more of the things that appeal to me right than anyone else.

That said the 1M is an M car that is ticking more boxes than any other.

[Echo M3]

Originally Posted by footie

Well the weight was the biggest issue with the RS5, not to take anything away from the M3 but if it had have been only 80kgs heavier then I doubt the M3 would have been quicker in any review/comparison test.

You also have to consider when discussing the RS3 and 1M that one car has any extra gear to play with and doesn't run out of puff as soon, plus has a wider torque band which also runs higher up the rev range, the 1M will need it work it's overboost hard to beat it.

But you are right to say that stats are only one side and how they feel is important, it's here that I think the 1M will entertain the most and be the obvious choice to take to the track but off it and in daily life I reckon the RS3 will be a hard act to follow.

Best bet is to get both.

I think overall, you are correct. However, there is a significant weight difference between the RS3 and the 1M. What I think will hurt the 1M is not the engine characteristics (it's not THAT different from the RS3), but the lack of a DCT tranny. The RS3 will likely be quicker off the line with quattro, and will probably be faster or just as quick up to 160 kph.

I'm not convinced the RS3 will be quicker on track, though. M cars have a knack for 'outperforming their figures' when on a track.

[footie]

Originally Posted by pman10

I think overall, you are correct. However, there is a significant weight difference between the RS3 and the 1M. What I think will hurt the 1M is not the engine characteristics (it's not THAT different from the RS3), but the lack of a DCT tranny. The RS3 will likely be quicker off the line with quattro, and will probably be faster or just as quick up to 160 kph.

I'm not convinced the RS3 will be quicker on track, though. M cars have a knack for 'outperforming their figures' when on a track.

I think some people are over estimating what the 1M will be capable of or possible under estimating how good the RS3 might be. You need look no further than the 135i (306ps) coupe versus the S3 (265ps), similar weight but a 40hp advantage for the BMW.

Here's the lap times.

Hockenheim Short: 1:17.50 vs 1:17.40
Autozeitung test track: 1:45.10 vs 1:46.90
Balocco: 3:01.19 vs 3:01.24
Nurburgring GP: 1:50.04 vs 1:50.21
Kyalami: 2:09.10 vs 2:08.80
Ring Knutstrop (Conf 2): 1:17.60 vs 1:17.20
Inta Long (Conf 2): 1:28.56 vs 1:30.55

The 135i is in bold and as you can see it has no advantage on the less powerful S3 so I doubt an equally powered RS3 with DSG and a more advanced awd system will be behind either.

Let's say that both cars will perform better than expected against the rest of the competition.

P.S.
Please don't look at the 135i time around the Nurburgring and think the the 1M is 27 seconds quicker as these two sets of data have differences, major differences. Lap times achieved by manufacturers are completely different to those achieved by magazines like Sportauto, look no further than the GTR, the 997.2turbo, the RS4, all cars that in the hands of manufacturers were 9+ seconds quicker. Add a similar amount to the 1M and you end up at 8:21, still a brilliant time but just not headline grabbing.

[hks786]

^^^

Thanks for those numbers Footie. I have never really looked at S3 v 135i track times. Interesting. Based on those numbers it seems the RS3 may be a VERY good rival to the 1M.

[footie]

Originally Posted by hks786

^^^

Thanks for those numbers Footie. I have never really looked at S3 v 135i track times. Interesting. Based on those numbers it seems the RS3 may be a VERY good rival to the 1M.

Correct, I think too many dismiss the A3 because of it's underpinnings but the fact is that the Golf platform is a bloody good one.

[dirtyylicous]

Although i dont like hatchbacks at all the RS3 is def a looker, the 1 has always been doofy looking to me. Performance wise the M will probably be a little better

[hks786]

Originally Posted by footie

Correct, I think too many dismiss the A3 because of it's underpinnings but the fact is that the Golf platform is a bloody good one.

It is easy to dismiss because it is an old platform and has been around for a long time. However, to me the A3 (3 door especially) is a brilliant looking hatch and even looks better than most modern hatches.

I dont care much for the VW arguments because you can also argue Lamborghini /Porsche

[footie]

Originally Posted by hks786

It is easy to dismiss because it is an old platform and has been around for a long time. However, to me the A3 (3 door especially) is a brilliant looking hatch and even looks better than most modern hatches.

I dont care much for the VW arguments because you can also argue Lamborghini /Porsche

The platform may beold but it's not as if it's standing still, the development work done on the RS3 was bang up to date and this will be proven in it's ability.

[footie]

I should have said with my earlier post but better than never. Anyway, the Golf R as capable of lapping the N-ring in 8:23, a huge 1 second slower than the E46 M3 did with only 265hp, a time I might add that beat the TT-S by 6 seconds. Now I can tell you that the RS3 has moved the game on from that of the Golf R and when you add another 75hp and DSG then expect a seriously quick time.

Audi mean business.

[graider]

what will the rs3 looks like?

[Olagüe]

1M power!

[klipseracer]

Originally Posted by footie

Correct, I think too many dismiss the A3 because of it's underpinnings but the fact is that the Golf platform is a bloody good one.

I like footie. Respectful. Its appreciated, I believe in speaking up for your favorite brand, however some people take their high school mascot chants too far.

[footie]

If you look at how many truly brilliant driver's cars occupy this price bracket ethusiasts have a positive feast in store for them.

And the soon to be recent additions of the RS3 and 1M only add to the excitement and dismay of their competitors, the fact that rumour has it that Mercedes are readying their own AMG of the new A-class with similar performance and price means that the next few years will be very interest.

Yeah I really like the RS3, no doubting this fact but I also like the idea of the 1M too, it should be a great addition to the M stable. Unlike the 335i and M3 which has so many different parts that make it's experience so unique I think everyone is waiting to see for themselves if M-Division have pulled off another minor miracle with even less work to do than usual.