[Rover]

Mine is being changed today by the dealer. $80-90 was the quote.

[epiphone3]

I just DIY mine... in Canada the dealer charges about 97 dollars CDN... if I do it myself, I get an oil filter from www.factorypartsonline.ca and put in Mobil1 0w40 at 8.99 per liter so oil changes run me roughly 70 - 72 dollars. Much better and I know the job is done right.

[kuthair]

135 is high, but its not outrageous (for a dealer oil change).

[LXG]

Originally Posted by tadders

So each time I read about this I get more and more surprised by the attitudes. I know this is a much loved and debated topic and I should probably post this reply elsewhere, but I guess I gotta get it out and here it is.

Firstly, the service interval hasnt been set so BMW can save money on maintenance. Anyone that has been around these cars for any length of time would know that the service interval has been around the 10-15K mark for at least 10 years. BMW has only been 'including' maintenance for the last 3-4 that I know of.

Not only are these cars well engineered, which I think no-one disputes, but they are also rigoursly tested to ensure that they are capable of having a long life and thus where the maintenance schedule comes from. I appreciate there are problems, but most if not all are more likely production issues and could not be avoided by over zealous maintenance.

I moved from Europe a few years ago and the concept of a 3K mile 'service' amazed me - this does not happen in the UK where I am from. You take your car in either when it asks to be taken in or every year or every 10-15K miles. I still own a 99 Z3 in the UK, it has 15K miles on it. I bought it brand new, it has been to the dealership exactly when it asked to be. So far it has had 2 oil changes, 2 brake fliud changes and 4 new tires. Thats it! Since the car doesnt get used much now I spend most of my time out of the country, I took it into the local BMW dealer recently to get her checked out. Came back with a free car wash and vaccuum, nothing required. Bear in mind, if some are to be believed this is when they could have charged me for the incredibly bad way I have treated my car because I am 20 oil changes short.

I honestly believe that American car manufacturers/car oil companies have conditioned you all into believing that every engine needs this ridiculous schedule they have set forth for you. I have no doubt that the big engines that are predominent in many american cars may require it, maybe not even those anymore, but in the past. It still amazes me how BMW can get 215+HP out of a 2.5 liter engine, yet my wifes amercian SUV has a 4.6 V8 with 300BHP?

You have accepted that these guys can make a awesome car, why cant you accept that they know them better than you?

I apologize if I have offended anyone with this post, that was not my intention at all. I guess I have read about this stuff so many times something needed to come out.

Summary, I will be taking my car into the dealership for maintenance as it asks me to do so. No sooner, no later. I trust their schedules, plus my experience tells me this is OK. This will be 3 series number 4, BMW number 12.

For the average driver, the above is justified. However, most BMW owners are passionate about their cars. Personally, I did not feel comfortable relying on just the oil sensor to determine my oil quality. Therefore, I changed it before the scheduled maintnence.
Changing the oil whether it is justified or not, has it merits that have been discussed in many other posts. It is up to the reader to decide.

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by tadders

So each time I read about this I get more and more surprised by the attitudes. I know this is a much loved and debated topic and I should probably post this reply elsewhere, but I guess I gotta get it out and here it is.

Firstly, the service interval hasnt been set so BMW can save money on maintenance. Anyone that has been around these cars for any length of time would know that the service interval has been around the 10-15K mark for at least 10 years. BMW has only been 'including' maintenance for the last 3-4 that I know of.

Not only are these cars well engineered, which I think no-one disputes, but they are also rigoursly tested to ensure that they are capable of having a long life and thus where the maintenance schedule comes from. I appreciate there are problems, but most if not all are more likely production issues and could not be avoided by over zealous maintenance.

I moved from Europe a few years ago and the concept of a 3K mile 'service' amazed me - this does not happen in the UK where I am from. You take your car in either when it asks to be taken in or every year or every 10-15K miles. I still own a 99 Z3 in the UK, it has 15K miles on it. I bought it brand new, it has been to the dealership exactly when it asked to be. So far it has had 2 oil changes, 2 brake fliud changes and 4 new tires. Thats it! Since the car doesnt get used much now I spend most of my time out of the country, I took it into the local BMW dealer recently to get her checked out. Came back with a free car wash and vaccuum, nothing required. Bear in mind, if some are to be believed this is when they could have charged me for the incredibly bad way I have treated my car because I am 20 oil changes short.

I honestly believe that American car manufacturers/car oil companies have conditioned you all into believing that every engine needs this ridiculous schedule they have set forth for you. I have no doubt that the big engines that are predominent in many american cars may require it, maybe not even those anymore, but in the past. It still amazes me how BMW can get 215+HP out of a 2.5 liter engine, yet my wifes amercian SUV has a 4.6 V8 with 300BHP?

You have accepted that these guys can make a awesome car, why cant you accept that they know them better than you?

I apologize if I have offended anyone with this post, that was not my intention at all. I guess I have read about this stuff so many times something needed to come out.

Summary, I will be taking my car into the dealership for maintenance as it asks me to do so. No sooner, no later. I trust their schedules, plus my experience tells me this is OK. This will be 3 series number 4, BMW number 12.

two things... BMW free maintenance at least started with E46 3-series which was model year 1999... that is a little more than "3-4 years ago!"

Further, have you ever seen some of the pictures of E46 cars that ran purely on scheduled service? Sludge problems were not uncommon in these cases! Very gross and unexpected.

[LXG]

Jiffy LUBE! That's crazy talk. They'll probably spend hours looking for the oil filter and dip stick?

DIY or BMW dealer. That's the price we pay to own a BMW.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4768

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44590

[Richwm]

Originally Posted by Brett

Jedi only if they are performed on schedule. These guys are requesting them within 1/3 of the recommended mileage for some reason?!?!?!?

Makes no sense. This is not the same crude oil found in your Ford pickup.

How about an executive summary, with 3 pros/cons?

-Brett

Well you go ahead and only do the free oil changes and come back here after 100k miles and whine about all the sludge in your motor causing pour performance and overheating.
If you are going to spend $40-$50K on a car you should take care of it. If your going to keep it for under 50K miles or you are leasing it don't worry about it, it will be the next persons problem. BTW I also have a 2001 E46 330i with 135K miles and it still runs as good as it did when I bought it and the oil was changed every 7500 miles. Oh and one more thing my Ford pickup gets the same oil as my BMW's Mobil-1 and at the same interval.

Rich

[itsbrokeagain]

I change mine after work. $37 in parts and oil . Ah the luxuries of working FOR the stealership

I changed mine at 1200. Was a little dirty, but overall clean, and still easy to see through while draining it.

[akhbhaat]

Originally Posted by Brett

Makes no sense. This is not the same crude oil found in your Ford pickup.

The oil isn't necessarily the problem. It's the filter. I wouldn't trust the filter to last the duration of the factory specified interval, because it won't.

[Richwm]

Originally Posted by tadders

So each time I read about this I get more and more surprised by the attitudes. I know this is a much loved and debated topic and I should probably post this reply elsewhere, but I guess I gotta get it out and here it is.

Firstly, the service interval hasnt been set so BMW can save money on maintenance. Anyone that has been around these cars for any length of time would know that the service interval has been around the 10-15K mark for at least 10 years. BMW has only been 'including' maintenance for the last 3-4 that I know of.

Wrong the 15K oil changes started in 1999 with the E46 at the same time as the free maintenance.

The oil change interval on the E36 was 3 or 5K and you had to pay for it along with the 30k transmition and rear diff oil change and now its a lifetime fill I call BS unless lifetime = 50k miles and the end of your warranty.

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by Richwm

Wrong the 15K oil changes started in 1999 with the E46 at the same time as the free maintenance.

The oil change interval on the E36 was 3 or 5K and you had to pay for it along with the 30k transmition and rear diff oil change and now its a lifetime fill I call BS unless lifetime = 50k miles and the end of your warranty.

The E36 had 15,000 kilometer service intervals for engine oil (9000 miles). Anybody I know that owned in E36 that was in good shape was changing their oil halfway through that interval (4500 miles).

You are right though... BMW free maintenance did start with the E46 model in MY 1999... and with it came 25,000 kilometer service intervales and life time fills...

Its strange because Lifetime fill started at that time as well on E46s and now lifetime fill continues, but on E90s there is actually a sticker on the transmission that says explicitly not to change the oil. This sticker is not present on E46s. Strange...

[742]

Originally Posted by epiphone3

....but on E90s there is actually a sticker on the transmission that says explicitly not to change the oil. This sticker is not present on E46s. Strange...

Is this sticker on the steptronic, the manual or both?

If I were Emperor every company that used the term “lifetime” would have to explain what that "lifetime" is designed to be.

[Richwm]

Originally Posted by epiphone3

The E36 had 15,000 kilometer service intervals for engine oil (9000 miles). Anybody I know that owned in E36 that was in good shape was changing their oil halfway through that interval (4500 miles).

You are right though... BMW free maintenance did start with the E46 model in MY 1999... and with it came 25,000 kilometer service intervales and life time fills...

Its strange because Lifetime fill started at that time as well on E46s and now lifetime fill continues, but on E90s there is actually a sticker on the transmission that says explicitly not to change the oil. This sticker is not present on E46s. Strange...

My E46 says lifetime fill but I havent looked at the E90 but im planing on changing my trans and rear diff with redline oil at 50k miles when my warranty is up, which will most likely next month since im at 45K miles now. BTW my e90 has had two dealer oil changes one at 21k miles and one at 40K miles and I did 5, 10, 15, 30K miles and will change it this weekend again it only takes me 15 min. and $37 to do it myself. Mobil-1 from CostCo $27 and BMW filter from Crown for less than $10.

[007e92]

Originally Posted by Lrscpa

At 5k miles I thought I would ask the dealer how much. I figured $50, maybe $60; but $135? If I go to a Jiffy Lube/Pep Boys, should I ask for anything specific?

i got mine done for $89

[danimal]

Making an intelligent decision about this without some real data is pretty much impossible

I don't care if someone has a friend whose Uncle Gus found sludge in his 3 Series after 2000 miles or someone else's brother's oil still looked new after 15K miles...I want to see engine failure rates or at least get an SA to pipe in and tell us what he's observed.

Without that, the best thing we have to go on is what BMW and synthetic oil manufacturers have to say. Both have no doubt conducted countless tests under the harshest of conditions to come up with their recommendations, and neither has any real, long-term-viable incentive to lie that I can see.

Why would BMW want to sacrifice its reputation as a builder of fabulous, high-quality engines or piss off hundreds of thousands of loyal customers just to shave a couple hundred off the MSRP of a $45K car? And why would Mobile 1 want you to buy less of its synthetic oil? I'm sure conspiracy theorists will have answers to both these questions, but I just don't see it.

I won't dispute that you may get a little more life out of your engine if you shorten the oil-change interval, but that's not going to add any life to the rest of your car. Most modern engines will still be going strong long after the car as a whole is feeling tired and old, so, unless you're planning to drive your car until it's a qualified relic, I remain skeptical that a shorter oil-change interval is worth the extra money and hassle.

Now please me and tell me why I'm wrong

-Dan

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by tadders

So each time I read about this I get more and more surprised by the attitudes. I know this is a much loved and debated topic and I should probably post this reply elsewhere, but I guess I gotta get it out and here it is.

Firstly, the service interval hasnt been set so BMW can save money on maintenance. Anyone that has been around these cars for any length of time would know that the service interval has been around the 10-15K mark for at least 10 years. BMW has only been 'including' maintenance for the last 3-4 that I know of.

Not only are these cars well engineered, which I think no-one disputes, but they are also rigoursly tested to ensure that they are capable of having a long life and thus where the maintenance schedule comes from. I appreciate there are problems, but most if not all are more likely production issues and could not be avoided by over zealous maintenance.

I moved from Europe a few years ago and the concept of a 3K mile 'service' amazed me - this does not happen in the UK where I am from. You take your car in either when it asks to be taken in or every year or every 10-15K miles. I still own a 99 Z3 in the UK, it has 15K miles on it. I bought it brand new, it has been to the dealership exactly when it asked to be. So far it has had 2 oil changes, 2 brake fliud changes and 4 new tires. Thats it! Since the car doesnt get used much now I spend most of my time out of the country, I took it into the local BMW dealer recently to get her checked out. Came back with a free car wash and vaccuum, nothing required. Bear in mind, if some are to be believed this is when they could have charged me for the incredibly bad way I have treated my car because I am 20 oil changes short.

I honestly believe that American car manufacturers/car oil companies have conditioned you all into believing that every engine needs this ridiculous schedule they have set forth for you. I have no doubt that the big engines that are predominent in many american cars may require it, maybe not even those anymore, but in the past. It still amazes me how BMW can get 215+HP out of a 2.5 liter engine, yet my wifes amercian SUV has a 4.6 V8 with 300BHP?

You have accepted that these guys can make a awesome car, why cant you accept that they know them better than you?

I apologize if I have offended anyone with this post, that was not my intention at all. I guess I have read about this stuff so many times something needed to come out.

Summary, I will be taking my car into the dealership for maintenance as it asks me to do so. No sooner, no later. I trust their schedules, plus my experience tells me this is OK. This will be 3 series number 4, BMW number 12.

Congratulations on your trust in BMW, but there is a wide range in driving habits. My wife primarily drives the E90 for short drives in the city, sometimes in temperatures around -30C. Have you even experienced -30? Think how hard it is on the car and engine oil. Also, it is so cold here in the winter at times that they put gravel on the roads mixed in with the salt. It gets pretty dusty as well. A good deal of dust makes it past the air filter and into the crank case. Synthetic oils are good quality and I don't doubt that the oil itself has not broken down at 30k km, but it gets dirty just like dino oil. BMW doesn't care about powertrain durability outside of warranty, but I do. I won't let BMW actuaries determine my oil change intervals.

[danimal]

Originally Posted by Jaws

Congratulations on your trust in BMW, but there is a wide range in driving habits. My wife primarily drives the E90 for short drives in the city, sometimes in temperatures around -30C. Have you even experienced -30? Think how hard it is on the car and engine oil. Also, it is so cold here in the winter at times that they put gravel on the roads mixed in with the salt. It gets pretty dusty as well. A good deal of dust makes it past the air filter and into the crank case. Synthetic oils are good quality and I don't doubt that the oil itself has not broken down at 30k km, but it gets dirty just like dino oil. BMW doesn't care about powertrain durability outside of warranty, but I do. I won't let BMW actuaries determine my oil change intervals.

Those sound like pretty harsh conditions, but the car is supposed to take that into account. How many miles does the computer advise between oil changes?

-Dan

[Ascension]

Originally Posted by 007e92

i got mine done for $89

Where'd you get it done for $89

[742]

Originally Posted by danimal

Those sound like pretty harsh conditions, but the car is supposed to take that into account. How many miles does the computer advise between oil changes?

-Dan

Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but the BMW oil life monitor appears to simply track fuel burn. Other systems, such as GM's, apply penalties for adverse conditions.

[danimal]

Originally Posted by 742

Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but the BMW oil life monitor appears to simply track fuel burn. Other systems, such as GM's, apply penalties for adverse conditions.

From another thread:

Originally Posted by E90Fleet

...here is a extract form a BMW training document on the Condition Based Service system


"The ECM contains an algorithm for evaluating the service due date.
The following parameters are considered in the calculation:

• The correct oil grade is installed
• Oil level
• Oil temperature
• Engine load
• Fuel consumption (ti signal)
• Mileage
• Date (time elapsed since the last oil change)

The remaining life to the next service is forwarded from the ECM to the instrument cluster"

Hope that helps,

-Dan

[ksfrogman]

Originally Posted by Lrscpa

At 5k miles I thought I would ask the dealer how much. I figured $50, maybe $60; but $135? If I go to a Jiffy Lube/Pep Boys, should I ask for anything specific?

Do it yourself. I'll never trust Jiffy Lube after I saw those news videos about them.

[Richwm]

Originally Posted by 742

Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but the BMW oil life monitor appears to simply track fuel burn. Other systems, such as GM's, apply penalties for adverse conditions.

You are correct see below
So if your like me and get good gas milage you get a free oil change every 20k miles.