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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum
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downsides to changing oil every 6k miles vs 12k?
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11-27-2011, 08:32 PM | #67 |
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The real entertainment can be found in the statement above. LOL.
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11-28-2011, 12:09 AM | #68 |
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This is a gross miss-representation of what SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119
determined. The title of the paper is - "Antiwear Performance of Low Phosphorus Engine Oils on Tappet Inserts in Motored Sliding Valvetrain Test" The test was a pure wear test using externally driven valve train components. A complete engine was not involved. There was no dilution of the oil by blow-by, no combustion products added to the oil, and no water added to the oil. The results might matter if you are building a sealed machine driven by an electric motor, but trying to claim this paper is a basis for extending oil change intervals is not reasonable |
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11-28-2011, 05:44 AM | #69 | |
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http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html
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If no codes are being thrown use Chevron Techron fuel injector cleaner (concentrate). It solves rpm fluctuating upon cold start-up. Also, for most BMW problems start off by scanning your car with the Peake Research Tool. It contains the actual BMW codes. If you want to register a newly installed battery for free (just buy a $10 cable) and google/download BMWLogger
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11-29-2011, 01:33 PM | #70 |
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A careful review of the data offered shows that there are a number of false conclusions regarding the data and Mobil 1 5w-30 testing that should be noted.
1. Wear metals from a UOA are not an appropriate means to determine OCIs as there is no direct correlation between the two. A UOA only determines the physical properties of the oil and what contaminants are present. The wear rate in the engine can change for any number of reasons unrealated to the oil used or the drain interval used. If you want to use wear as a means to determine a proper UOA then you'd need to conduct the proper wear testing which was not done in the Mobil 1 test. So their test premise was incorrect to start with as are a number of their conclusions. 2. No where in their testing did they show that changing the oil filter reduced wear. What they actually did was dilute the specific wear metals when they topped up the oil while changing the oil filter which also removed some wear metals from the total count. 3. If you were to use wear metals from UOA as a basis for determining a proper OCI - which would be inappropriate as there is no direct correlation, then the test data shows 14-16K miles is the best range for an OCI as all engines will require "topping up" over the course of 15K OCIs. 4. Their mathematical model suggests that topping up with 1 qt. of oil extends the OCI - based on wear metals, by 8K miles. This is debatable but it's likely that renewing the additive package on an oil only intended to run 10K-12K miles, is quite likely why the oil was still fine at 18K miles. 5. Had they tested BMW engines with LL01 oils more than likely the oil would have still been perfectly fine at 20K miles as Blackstones results at 15K and even the mundane non LL01 5w-30 M1 used in this test went 18K without issue. 6. Keeping in mind that M1 5w-30 is formualted as a typical 10K OCI based oil, their 8K-10K recommended OCIs have no basis from the data they presented as all engines are likely to need a top up before 8K miles. 7. So based on the evidence presented by Blackstone, the Mobil 1 tests, Ford's testing and BMW's CBS OCIs it should be obvious that LL01 oils are perfectly safe to use for up to 15K miles and likely more. Changing the oil more often than 15K miles can increase wear, supporting BMW's 15K OCIs as being most likely the best OCI. http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html |
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11-29-2011, 05:19 PM | #71 | |
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According to you what does wear oil down? it seems you would go a lifetime without oil change. How long can you hold your breathe? lol |
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12-02-2011, 07:28 PM | #73 | |
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Before VW switched to full synthetic oils they use to use re-claimed oil as the OE fill. This is used oil that has been properly cleaned and the additive package restored. This oil worked just fine because the oil itself doesn't wear out. |
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12-02-2011, 09:15 PM | #74 | |
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12-04-2011, 10:52 AM | #75 |
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Notice the mention of UOA to determine OCI - what a radical idea....
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12-05-2011, 05:50 AM | #76 | |
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A careful review of the data offered shows that there are a number of false conclusions regarding the data and Mobil 1 5w-30 testing that should be noted. 1. Wear metals from a UOA are not an appropriate means to determine OCIs as there is no direct correlation between the two. A UOA only determines the physical properties of the oil and what contaminants are present. The wear rate in the engine can change for any number of reasons unrealated to the oil used or the drain interval used. If you want to use wear as a means to determine a proper UOA then you'd need to conduct the proper wear testing which was not done in the Mobil 1 test. So their test premise was incorrect to start with as are a number of their conclusions. - Which is what I've been saying all along. 2. No where in their testing did they show that changing the oil filter reduced wear. What they actually did was dilute the specific wear metals when they topped up the oil while changing the oil filter which also removed some wear metals from the total count. 3. If you were to use wear metals from UOA as a basis for determining a proper OCI - which would be inappropriate as there is no direct correlation, then the test data shows 14-16K miles is the best range for an OCI as all engines will require "topping up" over the course of 15K OCIs. 4. Their mathematical model suggests that topping up with 1 qt. of oil extends the OCI - based on wear metals, by 8K miles. This is debatable but it's likely that renewing the additive package on an oil only intended to run 10K-12K miles, is quite likely why the oil was still fine at 18K miles. 5. Had they tested BMW engines with LL01 oils more than likely the oil would have still been perfectly fine at 20K miles as Blackstones results at 15K and even the mundane non LL01 5w-30 M1 used in this test went 18K without issue. 6. Keeping in mind that M1 5w-30 is formualted as a typical 10K OCI based oil, their 8K-10K recommended OCIs have no basis from the data they presented as all engines are likely to need a top up before 8K miles. 7. So based on the evidence presented by Blackstone, the Mobil 1 tests, Ford's testing and BMW's CBS OCIs it should be obvious that LL01 oils are perfectly safe to use for up to 15K miles and likely more. Changing the oil more often than 15K miles can increase wear, supporting BMW's 15K OCIs as being most likely the best OCI. chris328i is discussing the use of the UOA to determine the level of cleanliness of the oil and to determine when to renew the oil additive package to the oil in the crankcase. He is not advocating use of the UOA to determine engine wear, unlike you who is suggesting using UOA to determine engine wear. Thanks for trying... |
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12-05-2011, 09:11 AM | #77 | ||||||
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Last edited by Clifton; 12-05-2011 at 09:23 AM.. |
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12-05-2011, 01:12 PM | #78 | |
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Hope that clears it up for you. Last edited by ENINTY; 12-05-2011 at 01:27 PM.. |
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12-05-2011, 03:25 PM | #81 | |
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12-05-2011, 04:19 PM | #82 | |
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Sorry to everyone else that I have to go make a toilet joke, but when one argues with a child, one must dip to their level... |
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12-05-2011, 04:42 PM | #83 | |
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Carry on flinging your poo.... |
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12-05-2011, 09:09 PM | #84 | |
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Now go finish that math problem I gave you... |
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12-05-2011, 09:24 PM | #85 |
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So I'll take that to mean you have no facts to back your claims that there is nothing to be gained from UOA. SURPRISE!!!
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12-06-2011, 12:00 AM | #86 |
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I think it's also important to point out that just because the oil degrades in viscosity over the oci that it doesn't mean that damage is being done to the engine. This change is expected over the life of the oil and engine manufactures are aware it. It doesn't automatically equate to engine damage. Ultimately it comes down to personal preference. I believe 15k mile changes are fine.... With that being said I am personally more comfortable with 10k mile changes. In the end there is zero proof that early changes are any better or worse than the recommended CBS based schedule. Do what you and your wallet are comfortable with.
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12-06-2011, 05:40 AM | #87 | |
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I've got 30 years of car ownership, and almost 1M miles of driving experience, with not one engine failure. Every car I've owned has gone over 100,000 miles, most of them over 150,000, one of them past 230,000, and one of them to 256,000, and I've never sent any of my used oil anywhere to be tested; I've just followed the manufacturer's oil change interval recommendations. Those are facts that support my point - which is where you and I started this discussion in another thread a few months ago and have been boring everyone to death since. [And no, I'm not trying to show how big my balls are, just stating facts for Clifton because he's so concerned about them] You can pay someone $20 to hit you in the head with a baseball bat. You will gain some factual knowledge from the experience, and it may be interesting to know how it feels to get hit in the head with a baseball bat, but the question is is it worth it? |
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12-06-2011, 09:19 AM | #88 | |
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I know you want it to be real, but driving your car 800 miles week on a car with 162K miles does not constitute you as some kind of car maintenance prophet. Posting over and over about your "easy" miles is just silly. It's like bragging about getting exceptional brake pad life on a car the sees nothing but highway. Nice try, but you are going to have to do better, "big balls". |
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