Logic 7 - Optimal EQ settings

Bostonian · 12-16-2007, 11:00 PM

So, I gave equalization another try tonight, as I found that I just wasn't happy with a flat response. I didn't realize what a difference there was between measured flatness and perceived flatness. Measured flatness sounded just too tinny.

I used the same set-up as yesterday: Logitech microphone hooked up to laptop with an Indigo Echo DJ producing the test tones. I used Room EQ Wizard and calibrated the soundcard beforehand. The microphone was hung at ear level in the middle of the cabin facing forward.

The baseline trace shows not a whole lot of bass below 50 Hz. It also showed a peak at about 200 Hz, a hole at about 3 kHz, and a big roll-off after 10 kHz.

After reading about "house curves" on Home Theater Shack, my objective was to boost bass below 100 Hz to create a pseudo-"house curve", keep response flat from 100 Hz to 10 kHz, then create a shallower roll-off above 10 kHz.

Here are the settings I ended up with:

80 -6
200 -10
500 0
1000 5
2000 0
5000 -5
10000 -8
Bass 8
Treble 8

I've posted super-imposed before and after graphs below. The purple is before and the green is after. The sound is much better than before, and there's a lot more perceived deep bass, though the overall quality of bass just isn't good with this system.

Comments and advice appreciated!

evolutioninnyc · 12-16-2007, 11:03 PM

i just turn mine all the way up on all the settings

bud001 · 12-17-2007, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bostonian

So, I gave equalization another try tonight, as I found that I just wasn't happy with a flat response. I didn't realize what a difference there was between measured flatness and perceived flatness. Measured flatness sounded just too tinny.

I used the same set-up as yesterday: Logitech microphone hooked up to laptop with an Indigo Echo DJ producing the test tones. I used Room EQ Wizard and calibrated the soundcard beforehand. The microphone was hung at ear level in the middle of the cabin facing forward.

The baseline trace shows not a whole lot of bass below 50 Hz. It also showed a peak at about 200 Hz, a hole at about 3 kHz, and a big roll-off after 10 kHz.

After reading about "house curves" on Home Theater Shack, my objective was to boost bass below 100 Hz to create a pseudo-"house curve", keep response flat from 100 Hz to 10 kHz, then create a shallower roll-off above 10 kHz.

Here are the settings I ended up with:

80 -6
200 -10
500 0
1000 5
2000 0
5000 -5
10000 -8
Bass 8
Treble 8

I've posted super-imposed before and after graphs below. The purple is before and the green is after. The sound is much better than before, and there's a lot more perceived deep bass, though the overall quality of bass just isn't good with this system.

Comments and advice appreciated!

Thanks. I would give it a shot.

Couch · 12-17-2007, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bostonian

So, I gave equalization another try tonight, as I found that I just wasn't happy with a flat response. I didn't realize what a difference there was between measured flatness and perceived flatness. Measured flatness sounded just too tinny.

I used the same set-up as yesterday: Logitech microphone hooked up to laptop with an Indigo Echo DJ producing the test tones. I used Room EQ Wizard and calibrated the soundcard beforehand. The microphone was hung at ear level in the middle of the cabin facing forward.

The baseline trace shows not a whole lot of bass below 50 Hz. It also showed a peak at about 200 Hz, a hole at about 3 kHz, and a big roll-off after 10 kHz.

After reading about "house curves" on Home Theater Shack, my objective was to boost bass below 100 Hz to create a pseudo-"house curve", keep response flat from 100 Hz to 10 kHz, then create a shallower roll-off above 10 kHz.

Here are the settings I ended up with:

80 -6
200 -10
500 0
1000 5
2000 0
5000 -5
10000 -8
Bass 8
Treble 8

I've posted super-imposed before and after graphs below. The purple is before and the green is after. The sound is much better than before, and there's a lot more perceived deep bass, though the overall quality of bass just isn't good with this system.

Comments and advice appreciated!

Thanks for taking the time to do this. I'm going to give this a try.

I think part of the problem with this system is the amp. The system just bottoms out to early in bass, lows, highs, and mids.

BK · 12-17-2007, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bostonian

The baseline trace shows not a whole lot of bass below 50 Hz. It also showed a peak at about 200 Hz, a hole at about 3 kHz, and a big roll-off after 10 kHz.

Keep in mind that any of this could be the mic's fault. I did a quick Google, and the first Logitech USB mic I pulled up says its frequency response begins at 100 Hz. Therefore, your mic may not be picking up lower tones even if the speakers were generating them (frankly, I doubt the OEM speakers generate tones of any quality below about 50-100 Hz). The mic probably doesn't pick up much beyond 10 kHz, either. Is it a condenser or dynamic mic? If the latter, even if it were really good, I wonder if it could be trusted as a reference mic for a project like this.

The hole at 3 kHz is very odd, and I wonder if that is the mic, your soundcard, or something else. Honestly, I've never used a program like the one you are using, so I am just guessing, but perhaps there is some objective way to tell if the mic or soundcard is the culprit? Thinking about it, you probably would have to run a 20 Hz to 20 kHz sweep through studio reference monitors and see what you get -- and I am guessing that is not an option.

FWIW, even if the Logitech specs say your mic works at a greater range, I wouldn't believe it. There are lots of mics and monitors out there that say they perform from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, which is generally considered to be the hearing range for humans. For the vast majority, especially the lower priced stuff, that's an exaggeration of reality. They may pick up "some" tones at the ends of the spectrum, but they'll have huge roll-off, and the response to in between tones may be anything but flat. You'll notice a lot of higher-end equipment won't even claim 20 Hz to 20 kHz resolution, because they have a more discerning clientele and they have to quote actual specs.

I don't mean to be too critical. As you can tell, I am intrigued in what you are doing and I appreciate the work you're putting into it. The results are very interesting so far!

BK · 12-17-2007, 10:38 AM

Bostonian - I think you know what I am talking about above. By your posts and your undertaking this project, I can tell you're an audiophile.

But for others who are wondering, a mic has a range of frequencies it can pick up, just like a speaker has a range of frequencies it can output. Just because Bostonian's mic isn't picking up anything below 100 Hz doesn't mean it isn't there.

To illustrate what I'm talking about, below is the frequency response graph for the Shure SM58, the most popular dynamic mic in the music industry (for vocals). It is an "industry standard," but it would not be so useful for this project. As you can see, it does not pick up much below 100 Hz or over 10 kHz, and it has an elevated response over about 3 kHz to brighten vocals. And I would bet the Logitech mic has a much smaller and "peakier" frequency response than this.

Bostonian · 12-17-2007, 10:57 AM

BK: You're right on. I doubt that a $20 Playstation 2 mic will have the range needed to sense low (or high) frequencies. I also haven't seen any calibration files for a Logitech mic.

However, when Room EQ Wizard does its sweep tones, there's just not much bass that I'm sensing below 50 Hz. What I haven't done (and will try in the future) is send just low frequency test tones through the system to see if they can even be reproduced. I'll also do the same for high frequency tones, as that's quite a roll-off above 12 kHz.

I doubt that the 3 kHz hole is due to the soundcard, as that's something that you can calibrate using REW by simply plugging the line-out to the line-in for a feedback loop. So, I think it's something to do with the cabin layout of the E90 itself (though it could still be the mic.)

I had a longer time to listen to music using the curve above during my morning commute. I think the bass is a bit peaky, so I might attenuate it a bit, but overall, I'm really quite happy with it. There seems to be a lot more depth to the sound than before. So, while the equipment sure isn't perfect, the adjustments (to my ear anyway) seem to create a subjective improvement.

You wouldn't have the equipment to do a similar experiment, would you?

dinkoh · 12-17-2007, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bostonian

80 -3
200 0
500 0
1000 5
2000 7
5000 7
10000 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bostonian

80 -6
200 -10
500 0
1000 5
2000 0
5000 -5
10000 -8
Bass 8
Treble 8

These two setting seem pretty far apart. But, to me the freq curves don't look to off from each other.

Bostonian · 12-17-2007, 12:46 PM

Well, the first set of settings is from post #86, where I'm trying to get a flat response throughout and show how I would alter the settings from baseline (All settings default at 0.), so you would need to look at the contrast between the two graphs in that post. The second set of settings is from yesterday, and the contrast between baseline (All settings default at 0) and the final curve I ended up with.

The scale on the curves can be deceiving. too. For example, from yesterday's posting, I raised the sound level about 4-5 dBs at 40 to 50 Hz and lowered it by a similar amount at 200 Hz. I think the rule of thumb is a change in 10 dB would create a sense of doubling in sound volume, so there is an audible difference even if the curves don't seem that far apart.

Here's a pretty good website that demonstrates the loudness difference of one decibel. : http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/dB.html#soundfiles

The more I think about it, the more I think BK is right. The equipment that I used is really too crude and uncalibrated to make these sets of measurements truly meaningful. So, please use the results at your own risk and go with what your ears tell you.

BK · 12-17-2007, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bostonian

I doubt that the 3 kHz hole is due to the soundcard, as that's something that you can calibrate using REW by simply plugging the line-out to the line-in for a feedback loop. So, I think it's something to do with the cabin layout of the E90 itself (though it could still be the mic.)

I may be going out on the crazy limb here, but I wonder if sound deadening in the car has anything to do with it? 3 kHz might be around the same frequency as the drone from road noise, so maybe the car is designed to...

Nah, I still think it's the mic.

BTW, I've been away from the board for a while and now I also see your post immediately above this one. I don't want to discourage you from messing around with the settings and the program, because it sounds like a cool project. OTOH, I think some sort of calibrated "reference" system (a "known" mic, preamp, and A/D converter) must be used when people do this stuff for real, otherwise you have no way to judge whether it is the speakers or the input system that is coloring the sound.

Quote:

I had a longer time to listen to music using the curve above during my morning commute. I think the bass is a bit peaky, so I might attenuate it a bit, but overall, I'm really quite happy with it. There seems to be a lot more depth to the sound than before. So, while the equipment sure isn't perfect, the adjustments (to my ear anyway) seem to create a subjective improvement.

I'll try it myself. I don't claim to have the greatest ear in the world, but I know what I like.

In all seriousness, I am all for just setting the EQ to taste. Some people like a flat response, some prefer it punchier. As for me, I actually like the surround setting to "Concert Hall." Call me crazy, because I know that a real audiophile who spends his days listening to reference monitors would gag at the reverb that setting adds. But I like it, and now I can't go back.

Quote:

You wouldn't have the equipment to do a similar experiment, would you?

Unfortunately, I don't. I have some decent audio stuff on my desktop computer, but it's not portable. By "decent," I mean "for an amateur," not really pro stuff. High end audio equipment is too expensive for me to justify. I have enough expensive hobbies as it is!

So instead of doing it myself, I figured I'd sit on my ass and criticize your technique.

LOL. Sorry if I come off that way. I am seriously intrigued by all of this and appreciate that you're doing it.

As an aside, one thing I'd wondered about the Logic 7 system is how well the EQ tool works. I mean, it's cool we have a built in EQ and all, but I wondered if it really was just a prettified treble/bass adjustment without the resolution it pretends to have. Based on your experimenting, it looks like changes to the Logic 7 EQ really do affect that part of the frequency range. That's a good sign IMO -- if the engineers took the time to make an EQ that really works, this suggests they care about providing a halfway decent sound system.

BMdblU · 12-17-2007, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddtully@

Set the Logic 7 system to OFF for this type of music.

Because someone likes something you don't you

?

Get over it and grow up.

SantaClawz · 12-17-2007, 04:44 PM

logic 7 is ok. but if you add an aftermarket subwoofer, you'll have to upgrade the logic 7 speakers to match the subs.

SROC3 · 01-05-2008, 01:14 AM

wow....and to think I thought I knew something about acoustics. Carry on my fellow BMW Maties!!!!! That yo will come to the best acoustic settings for us all!!!!

liliej · 01-24-2008, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bostonian

Here are the settings I ended up with:

80 -6
200 -10
500 0
1000 5
2000 0
5000 -5
10000 -8
Bass 8
Treble 8

Just to be clear... the negative numbers imply the setting will be left of neutral, correct? I know it sounds stupid, but it's not conventional wisdom to set an eq at the lowest possible setting (ie... -10).

I set my logic 7 based on these settings, and it sounds good, but I want to make sure.

Thanks.

Bostonian · 01-25-2008, 04:58 AM

Yes, that's right. It means that you're setting the equalizer settings to a negative value. The reason why is because of the way the Bass and Treble controls work: They raise all the frequencies in their respective ranges by an equal amount. Because you want to shape the frequency in that range, you have to cut down on the ones that are overly boosted.

For my settings, I've set the Bass to the maximum amount to boost as much of the low bass frequency (~50 Hz) as I could. Because that made too much bass at the higher bass frequencies (~80-200 Hz), I cut those frequencies down using the equalizer.

What I hope we'll see in future models is that BMW pays as much attention to cabin acoustics as the competition does. Lexus with Mark Levinson and Infiniti with what sounds like a very good team from Bose seem far more advanced than BMW. So, hypothetically, their systems are already optimized and you don't have to go through the rigmarole of equalizer adjustments.

Of course, they can't match the best sound of all when driving: The engine.

liliej · 01-25-2008, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bostonian

Yes, that's right. It means that you're setting the equalizer settings to a negative value. The reason why is because of the way the Bass and Treble controls work: They raise all the frequencies in their respective ranges by an equal amount. Because you want to shape the frequency in that range, you have to cut down on the ones that are overly boosted.

For my settings, I've set the Bass to the maximum amount to boost as much of the low bass frequency (~50 Hz) as I could. Because that made too much bass at the higher bass frequencies (~80-200 Hz), I cut those frequencies down using the equalizer.

What I hope we'll see in future models is that BMW pays as much attention to cabin acoustics as the competition does. Lexus with Mark Levinson and Infiniti with what sounds like a very good team from Bose seem far more advanced than BMW. So, hypothetically, their systems are already optimized and you don't have to go through the rigmarole of equalizer adjustments.

Of course, they can't match the best sound of all when driving: The engine.

Thanks!! I bumped down the Bass one level, which suits my taste a bit more... but I've definately learned about the true intent of an eq. (why I love these threads... learn something new everyday!).

Thanks again.

adrian1480 · 01-26-2008, 03:22 PM

great thread going here, boys.

SROC3 · 01-26-2008, 08:17 PM

HA!!!!!

So I tried that latest settings of Bostonian and they work fantastic! Better than my settings for sure! Great job man! I'll "live" with it for a few days and see how that goes.

I would assume as well that Bostonian listens to all kinds of music? I set my original one (the start of this post) to those settings because I wanted as little "fiddling" when moving from one genre to another. I also have an E92 and he has an E90...so from 2 seats to 4 seats perhaps the acoustics are different. Maybe if you have a buddy with an E92 you, Bostonian

, could tweak it? Just a thought.

The sound is great and I set my surround settings to "MUSIC". I tired going back to surround-off but the imaging was so much better with it on. It just makes it sound like the artist is right in front of you at a private concert. Nice!!! Not a big fan of the "CONCERT" setting though.

I'm glad I started this thread and I hope that it continues to benefit all of us because of all our fellow BMW audiophiles. YEAH!@@$@#$%@

Jurisprudent · 01-27-2008, 01:32 AM

So what did you end up settling on Bostonian? I'm trying your settings as we speak, but I'm concerned the 200 setting may be too low at -8? Perhaps I've just grown used to overboosted sound over the years... I certainly don't doubt it.

adrian1480 · 01-27-2008, 02:57 AM

Guys, I've tried some of the more recent recommendations and the sound seems flat and distant. Almost painfull.

Are you guys using One of the Logic 7 Surround-sound settings while calibrating? If so, which?

Bostonian, are you using any fade?

arabbmw · 01-27-2008, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrian1480

Guys, I've tried some of the more recent recommendations and the sound seems flat and distant. Almost painfull.

Are you guys using One of the Logic 7 Surround-sound settings while calibrating? If so, which?

Bostonian, are you using any fade?

I think i read they all have the setting set to MUSIC.
and i believe he said -1 fade.

correct me if im wrong everyone.

Bostonian · 01-27-2008, 12:28 PM

Hi all,

A few remarks:

SROC3: Thanks for the kind remarks and for starting this thread. I think an E92 and an E90 will be different because of differences in cabin size, etc. If anyone in the Boston area has an E92 they'd like to bring over, I'm happy to do the measurements on them.

Adrian1480: If it sounds flat, you might be using the wrong equalization settings. I did the equalization twice. The first time was to try to get to as flat a response as possible, and the results sounded terrible. There definitely is a difference between "measured flatness" and "perceived flatness." Of course, if you didn't like the second set of settings I posted, then I'd suggest that you trust your ears and change the settings to your liking.

All: BK was right on the money about using these measurements cautiously. The equipment I have is fairly amateur level, and I just don't have the resources to do a proper mic calibration.

As for the settings, sorry not to have been more clear. I used "MUSIC" and set the fader to -1.

I'm a reformed audiophile, so I know a little bit about the field. Most high-end speakers have significant distortions in frequency response, and the range of coloration is all over the map, depending upon whether the speaker designer is going for a sweet, lush or a fast, accurate sound. So, you need to trust your ears when building your own "house curve" for equalization to make sure it matches your needs. Because I listen to a wide variety of music, I tried to make a curve that works well for me. It's definitely not perfect because Logic7 just isn't that great, especially compared with what you can get from Lexus or Infiniti.

Of course, then, you'd have to drive their cars.

To get an idea of what an OEM car stereo system could be, check out this review of the Infiniti Studio on Wheels.

12-16-2007, 11:00 PM	#89
Bostonian Private 0 Rep 80 Posts Drives: 2008 335xi E90 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Boston, MA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 335xi [0.00]	So, I gave equalization another try tonight, as I found that I just wasn't happy with a flat response. I didn't realize what a difference there was between measured flatness and perceived flatness. Measured flatness sounded just too tinny. I used the same set-up as yesterday: Logitech microphone hooked up to laptop with an Indigo Echo DJ producing the test tones. I used Room EQ Wizard and calibrated the soundcard beforehand. The microphone was hung at ear level in the middle of the cabin facing forward. The baseline trace shows not a whole lot of bass below 50 Hz. It also showed a peak at about 200 Hz, a hole at about 3 kHz, and a big roll-off after 10 kHz. After reading about "house curves" on Home Theater Shack, my objective was to boost bass below 100 Hz to create a pseudo-"house curve", keep response flat from 100 Hz to 10 kHz, then create a shallower roll-off above 10 kHz. Here are the settings I ended up with: 80 -6 200 -10 500 0 1000 5 2000 0 5000 -5 10000 -8 Bass 8 Treble 8 I've posted super-imposed before and after graphs below. The purple is before and the green is after. The sound is much better than before, and there's a lot more perceived deep bass, though the overall quality of bass just isn't good with this system. Comments and advice appreciated! Attached Images __________________ 2008 335xi TiAg - Black - Premium / Sport / Comfort Access / Paddles / Heated Seats Pessimism is the new black.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

12-16-2007, 11:03 PM	#90
evolutioninnyc RATCHET CITY MAYOR 14 Rep 164 Posts Drives: 07 335i Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NYC iTrader: (-2)	i just turn mine all the way up on all the settings
	Appreciate 0 Quote

12-17-2007, 10:38 AM	#94
BK Smiling politely 165 Rep 7,931 Posts Drives: 330i Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Washington DC iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 330i [9.00]	Bostonian - I think you know what I am talking about above. By your posts and your undertaking this project, I can tell you're an audiophile. But for others who are wondering, a mic has a range of frequencies it can pick up, just like a speaker has a range of frequencies it can output. Just because Bostonian's mic isn't picking up anything below 100 Hz doesn't mean it isn't there. To illustrate what I'm talking about, below is the frequency response graph for the Shure SM58, the most popular dynamic mic in the music industry (for vocals). It is an "industry standard," but it would not be so useful for this project. As you can see, it does not pick up much below 100 Hz or over 10 kHz, and it has an elevated response over about 3 kHz to brighten vocals. And I would bet the Logitech mic has a much smaller and "peakier" frequency response than this. __________________ E90 330i Black Sapphire 6MT \| 991.1 C4 Platinum Silver 7MT
	Appreciate 0 Quote

12-17-2007, 10:57 AM	#95
Bostonian Private 0 Rep 80 Posts Drives: 2008 335xi E90 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Boston, MA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 335xi [0.00]	BK: You're right on. I doubt that a $20 Playstation 2 mic will have the range needed to sense low (or high) frequencies. I also haven't seen any calibration files for a Logitech mic. However, when Room EQ Wizard does its sweep tones, there's just not much bass that I'm sensing below 50 Hz. What I haven't done (and will try in the future) is send just low frequency test tones through the system to see if they can even be reproduced. I'll also do the same for high frequency tones, as that's quite a roll-off above 12 kHz. I doubt that the 3 kHz hole is due to the soundcard, as that's something that you can calibrate using REW by simply plugging the line-out to the line-in for a feedback loop. So, I think it's something to do with the cabin layout of the E90 itself (though it could still be the mic.) I had a longer time to listen to music using the curve above during my morning commute. I think the bass is a bit peaky, so I might attenuate it a bit, but overall, I'm really quite happy with it. There seems to be a lot more depth to the sound than before. So, while the equipment sure isn't perfect, the adjustments (to my ear anyway) seem to create a subjective improvement. You wouldn't have the equipment to do a similar experiment, would you? __________________ 2008 335xi TiAg - Black - Premium / Sport / Comfort Access / Paddles / Heated Seats Pessimism is the new black.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

12-17-2007, 12:46 PM	#97
Bostonian Private 0 Rep 80 Posts Drives: 2008 335xi E90 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Boston, MA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 335xi [0.00]	Well, the first set of settings is from post #86, where I'm trying to get a flat response throughout and show how I would alter the settings from baseline (All settings default at 0.), so you would need to look at the contrast between the two graphs in that post. The second set of settings is from yesterday, and the contrast between baseline (All settings default at 0) and the final curve I ended up with. The scale on the curves can be deceiving. too. For example, from yesterday's posting, I raised the sound level about 4-5 dBs at 40 to 50 Hz and lowered it by a similar amount at 200 Hz. I think the rule of thumb is a change in 10 dB would create a sense of doubling in sound volume, so there is an audible difference even if the curves don't seem that far apart. Here's a pretty good website that demonstrates the loudness difference of one decibel. : http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/dB.html#soundfiles The more I think about it, the more I think BK is right. The equipment that I used is really too crude and uncalibrated to make these sets of measurements truly meaningful. So, please use the results at your own risk and go with what your ears tell you. __________________ 2008 335xi TiAg - Black - Premium / Sport / Comfort Access / Paddles / Heated Seats Pessimism is the new black.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

12-17-2007, 04:44 PM	#100
SantaClawz First Lieutenant 18 Rep 300 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Ventura iTrader: (2)	logic 7 is ok. but if you add an aftermarket subwoofer, you'll have to upgrade the logic 7 speakers to match the subs. __________________ ROLLING STOCK
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-05-2008, 01:14 AM	#101
SROC3 The limit of adhesion is my home. 1702 Rep 3,778 Posts Drives: Like a Boss. Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: three.one.zero iTrader: (1)	wow....and to think I thought I knew something about acoustics. Carry on my fellow BMW Maties!!!!! That yo will come to the best acoustic settings for us all!!!! __________________ 2019 X3 xDrive30i Glacier Silver \| Cognac w/ Fine Cove \| MSport \| Premium \| Dynamic Handling PKG \| Drive Assist \| HK w/ Bavsound Upgrade \|
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-25-2008, 04:58 AM	#103
Bostonian Private 0 Rep 80 Posts Drives: 2008 335xi E90 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Boston, MA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 335xi [0.00]	Yes, that's right. It means that you're setting the equalizer settings to a negative value. The reason why is because of the way the Bass and Treble controls work: They raise all the frequencies in their respective ranges by an equal amount. Because you want to shape the frequency in that range, you have to cut down on the ones that are overly boosted. For my settings, I've set the Bass to the maximum amount to boost as much of the low bass frequency (~50 Hz) as I could. Because that made too much bass at the higher bass frequencies (~80-200 Hz), I cut those frequencies down using the equalizer. What I hope we'll see in future models is that BMW pays as much attention to cabin acoustics as the competition does. Lexus with Mark Levinson and Infiniti with what sounds like a very good team from Bose seem far more advanced than BMW. So, hypothetically, their systems are already optimized and you don't have to go through the rigmarole of equalizer adjustments. Of course, they can't match the best sound of all when driving: The engine. __________________ 2008 335xi TiAg - Black - Premium / Sport / Comfort Access / Paddles / Heated Seats Pessimism is the new black.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-26-2008, 08:17 PM	#106
SROC3 The limit of adhesion is my home. 1702 Rep 3,778 Posts Drives: Like a Boss. Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: three.one.zero iTrader: (1)	HA!!!!! So I tried that latest settings of Bostonian and they work fantastic! Better than my settings for sure! Great job man! I'll "live" with it for a few days and see how that goes. I would assume as well that Bostonian listens to all kinds of music? I set my original one (the start of this post) to those settings because I wanted as little "fiddling" when moving from one genre to another. I also have an E92 and he has an E90...so from 2 seats to 4 seats perhaps the acoustics are different. Maybe if you have a buddy with an E92 you, Bostonian , could tweak it? Just a thought. The sound is great and I set my surround settings to "MUSIC". I tired going back to surround-off but the imaging was so much better with it on. It just makes it sound like the artist is right in front of you at a private concert. Nice!!! Not a big fan of the "CONCERT" setting though. I'm glad I started this thread and I hope that it continues to benefit all of us because of all our fellow BMW audiophiles. YEAH!@@$@#$%@ __________________ 2019 X3 xDrive30i Glacier Silver \| Cognac w/ Fine Cove \| MSport \| Premium \| Dynamic Handling PKG \| Drive Assist \| HK w/ Bavsound Upgrade \|
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-27-2008, 01:32 AM	#107
Jurisprudent Second Lieutenant 21 Rep 226 Posts Drives: '15 335i M-Sport Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Coastal SC iTrader: (0)	So what did you end up settling on Bostonian? I'm trying your settings as we speak, but I'm concerned the 200 setting may be too low at -8? Perhaps I've just grown used to overboosted sound over the years... I certainly don't doubt it.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-27-2008, 12:28 PM	#110
Bostonian Private 0 Rep 80 Posts Drives: 2008 335xi E90 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Boston, MA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 335xi [0.00]	Hi all, A few remarks: SROC3: Thanks for the kind remarks and for starting this thread. I think an E92 and an E90 will be different because of differences in cabin size, etc. If anyone in the Boston area has an E92 they'd like to bring over, I'm happy to do the measurements on them. Adrian1480: If it sounds flat, you might be using the wrong equalization settings. I did the equalization twice. The first time was to try to get to as flat a response as possible, and the results sounded terrible. There definitely is a difference between "measured flatness" and "perceived flatness." Of course, if you didn't like the second set of settings I posted, then I'd suggest that you trust your ears and change the settings to your liking. All: BK was right on the money about using these measurements cautiously. The equipment I have is fairly amateur level, and I just don't have the resources to do a proper mic calibration. As for the settings, sorry not to have been more clear. I used "MUSIC" and set the fader to -1. I'm a reformed audiophile, so I know a little bit about the field. Most high-end speakers have significant distortions in frequency response, and the range of coloration is all over the map, depending upon whether the speaker designer is going for a sweet, lush or a fast, accurate sound. So, you need to trust your ears when building your own "house curve" for equalization to make sure it matches your needs. Because I listen to a wide variety of music, I tried to make a curve that works well for me. It's definitely not perfect because Logic7 just isn't that great, especially compared with what you can get from Lexus or Infiniti. Of course, then, you'd have to drive their cars. To get an idea of what an OEM car stereo system could be, check out this review of the Infiniti Studio on Wheels. __________________ 2008 335xi TiAg - Black - Premium / Sport / Comfort Access / Paddles / Heated Seats Pessimism is the new black.
	Appreciate 0 Quote