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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > E90 330i MILV's headers BPC tune dyno disappointment



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      06-14-2018, 11:11 PM   #23
hassmaschine
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How did you measure HP at the "crank" if it was measured at the wheels? I'll never understand euro dyno measurements...

A dyno isnt a dick measuring stick - its a tool used for tuning. If you dont have a "before" measurement, you have no idea what you actually gained from your mods, or if what you expected matches reality.

I would reccomend ditching the "pedal box" as the DME is just going to adapt whatever it does back to the original settings, and its not helping with a tune anyway.

I think the adaptation reset is there, I'll talk to rjahl about that though as I've never had to use it.

Last edited by hassmaschine; 06-15-2018 at 01:38 PM.
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      06-15-2018, 01:15 PM   #24
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Remove pedal box, reflash bpc or clear adaptations.. also this dyno seem peculiar. Freeing some back pressure from the stock exhaust would help also
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      06-15-2018, 01:41 PM   #25
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Actually looking at this again, there could be another issue.

It's possible the RPM scale of the graph is wrong. If it redlined at 7200, but the graph only shows 6500, then it will show the wrong power because power is calculated from torque & RPM. Basically the graph could be off by 10%, which is a lot. But we have no idea what the dyno operator did, and also we know that max power isn't even reached until after 6500rpm.
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      06-15-2018, 02:06 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
Actually looking at this again, there could be another issue.

It's possible the RPM scale of the graph is wrong. If it redlined at 7200, but the graph only shows 6500, then it will show the wrong power because power is calculated from torque & RPM. Basically the graph could be off by 10%, which is a lot. But we have no idea what the dyno operator did, and also we know that max power isn't even reached until after 6500rpm.
I thought the same thing. The first transition happens too soon for the DISA, but the second one looks nearly correct. But the wrong scale can cause it to read the power wrong.
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      06-15-2018, 02:58 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
How did you measure HP at the "crank" if it was measured at the wheels? I'll never understand euro dyno measurements...

A dyno isnt a dick measuring stick - its a tool used for tuning. If you dont have a "before" measurement, you have no idea what you actually gained from your mods, or if what you expected matches reality.

I would reccomend ditching the "pedal box" as the DME is just going to adapt whatever it does back to the original settings, and its not helping with a tune anyway.

I think the adaptation reset is there, I'll talk to rjahl about that though as I've never had to use it.
This.

Without a wheel horsepower result to compare to what others results are (99% published N52 dynos) and a before dyno these results are borderline worthless.

It seems the only thing out of line here is your expectations...

On the plus side these actually look like whp results and the power/tq curves look very consistent.
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      06-16-2018, 09:40 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlow98 View Post
This.

Without a wheel horsepower result to compare to what others results are (99% published N52 dynos) and a before dyno these results are borderline worthless.

It seems the only thing out of line here is your expectations...

On the plus side these actually look like whp results and the power/tq curves look very consistent.
Well I try to find a dyno that measure power in whp, but it might be difficult since I think all euro dynos are the same.
I agree, but I don’t think its completely worthless. You can see DISA transitions or if power curve reached max power at the same rpm as 99% of all other dynos.
What about 50-100 mph times ? If power is there and dyno is wrong then times should more or less match.
What should be 50 -100 mph times for similar set up?
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      06-16-2018, 09:50 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
Actually looking at this again, there could be another issue.

It's possible the RPM scale of the graph is wrong. If it redlined at 7200, but the graph only shows 6500, then it will show the wrong power because power is calculated from torque & RPM. Basically the graph could be off by 10%, which is a lot. But we have no idea what the dyno operator did, and also we know that max power isn't even reached until after 6500rpm.
Then another dyno should either confirm or dismiss this assumption.
Iím planning a dyno as soon as I learn how to adapt VVT from rjahl. Pedal box is already off the car.
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      06-16-2018, 10:50 AM   #30
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I think bosch has whp dynos in europe.. we have it here in the middle east
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      06-17-2018, 11:31 AM   #31
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INPA Instructions

Perhaps a mute point by now but I finally pulled the MSV70 from my storage box.

To re-learn the VVT on the MSV70 do the following;

1. With the ignition key ON and the engine OFF
2. Open INPA
3. Type F3 for E90
4. Select Engine and MSV70 fur N52
5. Type F8 for adaption
6. Type F8 for VVT adaption

7. Turn off the ignition and wait a few seconds
8. Turn on the ignition but do not start the engine and wait a few more seconds (15 or so), you will probably hear the VVT motor running and relearning the stops.
9. Turn off the ignition and wait a few seconds, then start the car as normal

It might have a rough idle for a few seconds but it should settle down quickly.

I'm not saying this will fix your problem. Too many unanswered questions regarding your Dyno.

I think the MSV80 is the same or very similar.

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At first I found the German a pain PIA but now I mostly prefer the original German text over some dubious translation. If I do add translations, I like to keep the original German nearby.
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      06-17-2018, 02:22 PM   #32
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rjahl
Hi, do i need to do this after milvs installation? Also a bpc flash for milvs does this when flashing? After installing the milvs i only kept ignition on for like 15 seconds two times so it may does this relearn automatically..
Tx
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      06-17-2018, 03:40 PM   #33
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rjahl Thank You!
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      06-17-2018, 04:24 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elias_E90 View Post
rjahl
Hi, do i need to do this after milvs installation? Also a bpc flash for milvs does this when flashing? After installing the milvs i only kept ignition on for like 15 seconds two times so it may does this relearn automatically..
Tx
I would ask BPC if it's needed, in Taskmaster's case it was recommended by them to resolve problems being experienced. As I understand things this was an early version of the alpha n tune.
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      06-17-2018, 10:57 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally_84 View Post
Well I try to find a dyno that measure power in whp, but it might be difficult since I think all euro dynos are the same.
I agree, but I don’t think its completely worthless. You can see DISA transitions or if power curve reached max power at the same rpm as 99% of all other dynos.
What about 50-100 mph times ? If power is there and dyno is wrong then times should more or less match.
What should be 50 -100 mph times for similar set up?
I agree. That's why I said 'borderline'.

50-100 times? That's another metric I don't think anyone has posted on here.

It's hard to compare all euro-centric results vs what's available on here. Honestly, your graph looks like a WHP result. If so, great. If not, It's going to be hard/impossible/futile to compare without one...
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      06-18-2018, 03:26 PM   #36
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A dyno like that is probably best for comparing before and after to see the increase in power from modifications etc. It's not a dynojet so hard to really compare online and certainly not good for internet bragging rights.

I agree a timed 3rd gear pull, for instance, would probably tell you more and if you are on par with other cars with the same modifications.
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      06-18-2018, 07:41 PM   #37
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OP

Why does your dyno chart show torque and horsepower crossing at the wrong RPM?
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      06-18-2018, 08:04 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phyrexia View Post
OP

Why does your dyno chart show torque and horsepower crossing at the wrong RPM?
Nice catch! I’m guessing they aren’t scaled the same way. I’ve seen some weird dynos where foot/lbs were scaled like 100 to 400 on left in increments of 20 and horsepower on the right from 0 to 500 in increments of 50 (for example) and they didn’t cross at 5252. Like take this for example the torque and hp are scaled differently for each side even though they should actually cross at 5252 if scaled the same:



I’m guessing also because it’s Newton meters and some other European power measurement unit it might not follow the convention?

Last edited by Biginboca; 06-18-2018 at 08:15 PM.
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      06-18-2018, 09:55 PM   #39
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At this point may I just ask..... does the car feel any faster than before? What's the major difference in mid range and high end?

There is no baseline from your car so that's that, even if you find a whp dyno now what you get is just another number, there is very little point to it.

I know the basic idea of MILVs but the power gain is just so hard to quantify; you need someone on a stock engine with a tune then dyno against a MILV equipped engine with a tune, and they have to be in similar condition.
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      06-19-2018, 12:45 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phyrexia View Post
OP

Why does your dyno chart show torque and horsepower crossing at the wrong RPM?
It was already pointed out that the RPM scale is likely off, which would cause both the torque/hp crossing RPM to be wrong and the reported horsepower to be lower than reality.

Of course, with no baseline it still doesn't really make any difference...
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      06-19-2018, 12:47 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
Nice catch! Iím guessing they arenít scaled the same way. Iíve seen some weird dynos where foot/lbs were scaled like 100 to 400 on left in increments of 20 and horsepower on the right from 0 to 500 in increments of 50 (for example) and they didnít cross at 5252. Like take this for example the torque and hp are scaled differently for each side even though they should actually cross at 5252 if scaled the same:



Iím guessing also because itís Newton meters and some other European power measurement unit it might not follow the convention?
yeah, that's just a bad dyno operator IMO. They should know better, but really anyone with enough money can buy a dyno.
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      06-19-2018, 01:11 AM   #42
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^yikes lololol
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      06-21-2018, 09:06 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Kubricks View Post
At this point may I just ask..... Does the car feel any faster than before? What's the major difference in mid-range and high end?

There is no baseline from your car so that's that, even if you find a whp dyno now what you get is just another number, there is very little point to it.

I know the basic idea of MILVs but the power gain is just so hard to quantify; you need someone on a stock engine with a tune then dyno against a MILV equipped engine with a tune, and they have to be in similar condition.
It does feel faster... wrong not feels it is faster than stock.
Especially now after VVC Adaptation procedure I got a feeling it's even faster then dynoed.
But I don't want to talk about my but dyno feelings.

I will soon dyno again in different place and then I will see.
It's not about how much do I gained after mods but rather how much hp it will reach after all the mods. Most of cars here get about 250 whp which should be around 290 Hp.

I know it's just a number but since that number is 243 hp I am assuming something is wrong with the car and needs fixing.
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Last edited by Wally_84; 06-21-2018 at 09:17 AM.
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      06-21-2018, 01:02 PM   #44
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I
I will soon dyno again in different place and then I will see.
It's not about how much do I gained after mods but rather how much hp it will reach after all the mods. Most of cars here get about 250 whp which should be around 290 Hp.

I know it's just a number but since that number is 243 hp I am assuming something is wrong with the car and needs fixing.
And this is the fundamental issue with this thread. It is all about the delta in gains, not the absolute number. All cars are slightly different, so chasing a number that someone else achieved is an incorrect train of thought.

Some cars simply perform better or worse than others. With that being said, if you make it within 10% of others that are exactly modified the way you are, on the same Sdyno and the same weather conditions.
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