E90Post
 


TNT Racewerks
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > DIY Guides > DIY: E90 Oil Pan Gasket and Subframe Drop



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-11-2016, 06:07 AM   #45
mlifxs
Diamond Geezer
mlifxs's Avatar
212
Rep
2,385
Posts

Drives: Jet Black 2007 328i Saloon
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlifxs View Post
Not to discourage innovation with woodwork or safety concerns, but I did manage pretty well with a 2-point Harbor Freight bar that cost $64 (after 20% off coupon available everywhere) + tax. When I first put it together, I had some concerns, but once it's tightened down with the tow hook, it seems pretty solid. Not a peep of sound when I lowered the jack and let the sub-frame drop.

One recommendation that may be obvious to some (not me, until it was too late!): If you're going to leave the sub-frame lowered but still on the car, it may be worthwhile to degrease / wipe down the sub-frame and everything else between you and those pan bolts, before you begin removing the bolts. Otherwise, it's "all on you", as they say.
When I post the pic of my contraption you'll understand. I looked at the Harbor freight engine bar and was going to get it, but it was not in stock. My engine support is basically a 2x6 spanning the fenders (about 60 inches) with a 3/8ths Grade-8 bolt attaching the tow hook to the 2x6. It's far more than sturdy. It was all stuff I just had lying around my shop.
thanks, I have no doubt you put together something functional and safe my post was not intended to be critical.

in an earlier post on this thread I asked OP about support bars and he preferred the three point variety, so I thought I'd revisit with my experience, after you mentioned your setup.
Appreciate 0
      01-11-2016, 11:15 AM   #46
KrashFinatik
Private
KrashFinatik's Avatar
78
Rep
60
Posts

Drives: 2006 325i, Sport Model
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrashFinatik View Post
It was a "PITA" for me too. All I can say is patience and some luck. I was fighting with mine for quite awhile and had to leave it. I came back to it some time later and I got it off.
The clips are at 4 spots and you have to pinch it with pliers from two sides and use a flat head to lift the other clips. This is best done when the oil pan is loose so the weight of it plus movement helps the line disconnect.
I hope this helps.
Thanks for the response. So the small rectangles on the sides of the connector body with the 3 ribs on them pinch in with pliers? Then for the other clips you use a small screw driver from the underside? Is there a metal ring in the connection? I was thinking of using some penetrating oil on it. What do you think?

And your DIY was great (I know I already said this). Very informative and saved me tons of time. Much appreciated.
It's a plastic tube over a metal tube, no metal clips to rust or anything like that.
JUST A PAIN IN THE A__ to deal with. I'd have to say it was the most difficult part of the job.
__________________
???
Appreciate 0
      01-11-2016, 05:02 PM   #47
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16951
Rep
18,580
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlifxs View Post
thanks, I have no doubt you put together something functional and safe my post was not intended to be critical.

in an earlier post on this thread I asked OP about support bars and he preferred the three point variety, so I thought I'd revisit with my experience, after you mentioned your setup.
Understood. Didn't take it as critical . It's a nice set up and cheap; but not pretty. Not sure I'll need to use an engine bar again for a while, so thought it was the best route to go. Besides, my wood shop is the other bay in my garage, so it took all of maybe 45 minutes to figure out, cut and assemble, which is half the time of going to Harbor Freight and picking up an engine bar from where I live. Steel is not the only answer!
Attached Images
 
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 01-11-2016 at 08:51 PM..
Appreciate 3
feuer4274.50
Mike K314.50
POBEP359.50
      01-11-2016, 05:03 PM   #48
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16951
Rep
18,580
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KrashFinatik View Post
It's a plastic tube over a metal tube, no metal clips to rust or anything like that.
JUST A PAIN IN THE A__ to deal with. I'd have to say it was the most difficult part of the job.
Thanks.
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Appreciate 0
      01-13-2016, 11:57 AM   #49
samulis
Enlisted Member
5
Rep
32
Posts

Drives: 2006 330i
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: South Jersey

iTrader: (0)

I'm going to do this job this weekend, does anyone know if the wheels NEED to be removed for this job? I'm always paranoid working under my car and like to have the added security of wheels and ramps in addition to jacks.
Appreciate 0
      01-13-2016, 12:44 PM   #50
mlifxs
Diamond Geezer
mlifxs's Avatar
212
Rep
2,385
Posts

Drives: Jet Black 2007 328i Saloon
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by samulis View Post
I'm going to do this job this weekend, does anyone know if the wheels NEED to be removed for this job? I'm always paranoid working under my car and like to have the added security of wheels and ramps in addition to jacks.
Not sure if you need to keep the wheels on or not, you could try it and see. I think you'll find that between the front jack stands and the leaving the wheels on, your ingress / egress will be somewhat constrained. May be annoying. Might also make raising and maneuvering the subframe a little more difficult?

For this project, I decided to treat myself to two new sets of 6 ton OTC jack stands. In addition to the excess load capacity, I was able to achieve 17" of clearance from the underside of the car, letting the ratchet bar simply rest on the stand frame for all 4 stands (along with hockey pucks). There was no way the car was going anywhere. Bigger capacity stands also provides higher minimum height, which was helpful for this job.
Appreciate 0
      01-13-2016, 12:45 PM   #51
mlifxs
Diamond Geezer
mlifxs's Avatar
212
Rep
2,385
Posts

Drives: Jet Black 2007 328i Saloon
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Understood. Didn't take it as critical . It's a nice set up and cheap; but not pretty. Not sure I'll need to use an engine bar again for a while, so thought it was the best route to go. Besides, my wood shop is the other bay in my garage, so it took all of maybe 45 minutes to figure out, cut and assemble, which is half the time of going to Harbor Freight and picking up an engine bar from where I live. Steel is not the only answer!
Nice!
Appreciate 0
      01-13-2016, 02:15 PM   #52
samulis
Enlisted Member
5
Rep
32
Posts

Drives: 2006 330i
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: South Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlifxs View Post
Not sure if you need to keep the wheels on or not, you could try it and see. I think you'll find that between the front jack stands and the leaving the wheels on, your ingress / egress will be somewhat constrained. May be annoying. Might also make raising and maneuvering the subframe a little more difficult?

For this project, I decided to treat myself to two new sets of 6 ton OTC jack stands. In addition to the excess load capacity, I was able to achieve 17" of clearance from the underside of the car, letting the ratchet bar simply rest on the stand frame for all 4 stands (along with hockey pucks). There was no way the car was going anywhere. Bigger capacity stands also provides higher minimum height, which was helpful for this job.
Cool, thanks! I was thinking it might become tiring crawling under that much if the car is too low to the ground. I actually have a set of 4 six ton stands. I'm just paranoid about being under the car for extended periods of time.
Appreciate 0
      01-13-2016, 02:57 PM   #53
mlifxs
Diamond Geezer
mlifxs's Avatar
212
Rep
2,385
Posts

Drives: Jet Black 2007 328i Saloon
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by samulis View Post
Cool, thanks! I was thinking it might become tiring crawling under that much if the car is too low to the ground. I actually have a set of 4 six ton stands. I'm just paranoid about being under the car for extended periods of time.
understood!

For this job, the redundancy opportunities would include (in addition to 4 jack stands) supporting the rear with your jack (either rear subframe or diff) and maybe the transmission bracket? Not many options up front since you're lowering or removing the front sub-frame.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2016, 01:46 PM   #54
Matt Z
Private
United_States
35
Rep
60
Posts

Drives: 2011 328i Sedan 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Southern California

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 X1 sDrive  [8.67]
2011 328i Sedan  [10.00]
2009 135i Coupe  [0.00]
My 2011 E90's oil pan started leaking in November. Had the car since 9k and the odometer just rolled over to 114k. I bought all the parts from the dealer and am looking to do the job myself. I'm just waiting to find the right weekend to get it done. The only thing that bothers me is the steering rack as I don't want to mess with it.

KrashFinatik or Efthreeoh, did you guys have to unbolt the rack from the subframe or did you leave it in place? What about the lower and upper steering column joints? Did you have to unbolt them?
__________________
2014 Glacier Silver Metallic X1 sDrive
2011 Space Grey 328i Sedan - 6 Speed
2009 Crimson Red 135i - 6 Speed
2013 Le Mans Blue Metallic 135is - 6 Speed SOLD
1989 Schwarz 325i - 5 Speed SOLD
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2016, 07:32 PM   #55
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16951
Rep
18,580
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KrashFinatik View Post
It's a plastic tube over a metal tube, no metal clips to rust or anything like that.
JUST A PAIN IN THE A__ to deal with. I'd have to say it was the most difficult part of the job.
Okay... So I went to my local dealer where I buy most of my parts. I asked the parts guy if he would bring out the return line so I could look at the connector. He did. He then went and asked one of the Techs in the shop how they remove the hose...

IT IS SO INCREDIBLY SIMPLE! The Tech said just hit it quickly with a flat-blade screw driver. That's what I did today. It popped off in 1/2 a second.
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 01-18-2016 at 04:25 AM..
Appreciate 0
      01-17-2016, 06:52 AM   #56
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16951
Rep
18,580
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattZ135is View Post
My 2011 E90's oil pan started leaking in November. Had the car since 9k and the odometer just rolled over to 114k. I bought all the parts from the dealer and am looking to do the job myself. I'm just waiting to find the right weekend to get it done. The only thing that bothers me is the steering rack as I don't want to mess with it.

KrashFinatik or Efthreeoh, did you guys have to unbolt the rack from the subframe or did you leave it in place? What about the lower and upper steering column joints? Did you have to unbolt them?
I just finished yesterday. I unbolted the steering rack, but it was not necessary. The rack is held in place by two thru-bolts with nuts on the top side. The rack is held in place between tabs on the subframe, so it doesn't move once you remove the mounting bolts, so leave it bolted in. I was concerned about the steering column. It has two u-joints in it that allow for a great deal of movement once the subframe is dropped.

Here's some added tips to KrasFinatik's excellent DIY.

1) CLEAN around the lower engine block BEFORE you unbolt and remove the oil pan. I'm a dumbass sometimes.

2) On the 325i models with an oil return line, all you need to do to remove the line from the oil pan tube is hit it upwards with a large flat-blade screwdriver. I placed the blade on the lip of the connector and hit the end of the screwdriver with a swift hit of a ball peen hammer.

3) To ease the removal of the oil pan you need to raise the front of the engine about 2 - 3 inches. Doing it over again, at the start, I would unbolt the engine mounts, then raise the engine the 2 to 3 inches, then set the engine bar in place with the engine in the lifted position.

4) On the manual transmission cars, there are three (3) E-12 torx bolts that hold the transmission to the engine backing plate. They are not structural and are steel (i.e. reusable). Back out these three bolts to give room to remove the oil pan. They get in the way trying to drop the pan at the rear of the engine. Two of the bolts affix a bracket to the transmission. The bracket holds the connectors for the O2 sensors. Remove the bracket and pull it backwards out of the way.

5) I like the idea of grinding down the diameter of the tow hook so it seats farther into the threaded hole in the head.

6) There is a plastic coolant line that runs across the front of the subframe. It is a heater hose that goes to the heater core. It is screwed to the subframe at three (3) locations by torx screws. I recommend that this hose be freed from the subframe because it allows the subframe to drop another few inches and takes the stress off the hoses.

7) Don't be afraid to drastically pull and tug on the subframe once it is loose. It can be moved around quite a bit.

8) The gasket is made of rubber and metal. It will be stuck to the pan when you remove the pan. Pry up the metal gasket at the back of the pan and it will start to peel away. The rubber part of the gasket will be hard and brittle and stuck to the pan. I used a heat gun to soften it up. I recommend using a gasket removal tool (available at most auto parts stores) to remove the gasket. A good gasket removal tool is made of metal and looks like a small paint scraper.

9) No one brought it up, but I was wondering... I used Permatex Black gasket maker when I reinstalled the gasket. I don't think it is necessary and the gasket looks like it has some sort of glue on the surface that probably sets over time once the engine heats it up. That said, I don't plan on going in to replace the gasket again (my car will probably die before it leaks again), so I used a good deal of P-tex on the gasket.

10) Retorquing the bolts. I bought a 1/4 drive torque wrench just for this job. I found that after I snugged down the new pan bolts using a 1/4-drive ratchet, then putting the torque wrench to it, the bolts had already hit the 8 ft./lb. point. The specs call for torquing to 8 ft./lb. then another 90 deg. I ended up just torquing them by feel. They are aluminum bolts, so don't over torque them.

Some observations:

So my pan started leaking round 190,000 miles or so. It started leaking at the right rear corner near the bell housing. It seems this is where they all start to leak. I think I know why, which is why I decided to P-tex the new gasket. The oil windage tray on the bottom of the engine (you'll see it once the pan is out) spans almost the entire width of the bottom of the engine block. Being that the engine is slanted in position in the car, the windage tray lets oil drip right on to the gap between the bottom of the block and the oil pan. It's at an angle, so the oil just sits on the gap and eventually seeps through the gasket once the gasket hardens up. That's my thought anyway.

If your gasket is leaking, don't let it go as long as I did (100,000 miles). The problem is (and I discovered it when I just replaced my clutch a few weeks ago) the rear of the engine block where the pan gap is protrudes into the bell housing behind the flywheel. The clutch pressure plate has fan blades cut into it for cooling the clutch. Once the pan starts leaking, the fan action draws the leaking oil from the pan and spins it all over the inside of the bell housing and just makes a complete mess. Worst off the oil mess will lead you to think the rear crank seal is leaking. Mine was perfectly dry.

Hope this helps.
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 01-18-2016 at 04:24 AM..
Appreciate 0
      01-17-2016, 07:22 AM   #57
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16951
Rep
18,580
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by samulis View Post
I'm going to do this job this weekend, does anyone know if the wheels NEED to be removed for this job? I'm always paranoid working under my car and like to have the added security of wheels and ramps in addition to jacks.
You have to remove the wheels or the subframe will not drop far enough. You can't have the car on ramps on the front wheels. Just get four good flat-top stands and put them under the lifting blocks on the sides of the car. The car will sit on stands under the lifting blocks for a 100 years and not fall off.
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Appreciate 0
      01-17-2016, 08:53 AM   #58
samulis
Enlisted Member
5
Rep
32
Posts

Drives: 2006 330i
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: South Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh
Quote:
Originally Posted by samulis View Post
I'm going to do this job this weekend, does anyone know if the wheels NEED to be removed for this job? I'm always paranoid working under my car and like to have the added security of wheels and ramps in addition to jacks.
You have to remove the wheels or the subframe will not drop far enough. You can't have the car on ramps on the front wheels. Just get four good flat-top stands and put them under the lifting blocks on the sides of the car. The car will sit on stands under the lifting blocks for a 100 years and not fall off.
Thanks for all the advice! I got the car on jacks and I'm working on removing the oil return line now, so your timing on the screw driver tip was perfect! I had a small struggle getting one of the bolts out for the v shaped bottom bar. There is a small tab that holds the nut in place that bends. I took some photos to illustrate what happens. I just applied downward pressure to the bar and then loosened the bolt and it came out.
Attached Images
  
Appreciate 0
      01-18-2016, 09:08 PM   #59
KrashFinatik
Private
KrashFinatik's Avatar
78
Rep
60
Posts

Drives: 2006 325i, Sport Model
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattZ135is View Post
My 2011 E90's oil pan started leaking in November. Had the car since 9k and the odometer just rolled over to 114k. I bought all the parts from the dealer and am looking to do the job myself. I'm just waiting to find the right weekend to get it done. The only thing that bothers me is the steering rack as I don't want to mess with it.

KrashFinatik or Efthreeoh, did you guys have to unbolt the rack from the subframe or did you leave it in place? What about the lower and upper steering column joints? Did you have to unbolt them?
I just finished yesterday. I unbolted the steering rack, but it was not necessary. The rack is held in place by two thru-bolts with nuts on the top side. The rack is held in place between tabs on the subframe, so it doesn't move once you remove the mounting bolts, so leave it bolted in. I was concerned about the steering column. It has two u-joints in it that allow for a great deal of movement once the subframe is dropped.

Here's some added tips to KrasFinatik's excellent DIY.

1) CLEAN around the lower engine block BEFORE you unbolt and remove the oil pan. I'm a dumbass sometimes.

2) On the 325i models with an oil return line, all you need to do to remove the line from the oil pan tube is hit it upwards with a large flat-blade screwdriver. I placed the blade on the lip of the connector and hit the end of the screwdriver with a swift hit of a ball peen hammer.

3) To ease the removal of the oil pan you need to raise the front of the engine about 2 - 3 inches. Doing it over again, at the start, I would unbolt the engine mounts, then raise the engine the 2 to 3 inches, then set the engine bar in place with the engine in the lifted position.

4) On the manual transmission cars, there are three (3) E-12 torx bolts that hold the transmission to the engine backing plate. They are not structural and are steel (i.e. reusable). Back out these three bolts to give room to remove the oil pan. They get in the way trying to drop the pan at the rear of the engine. Two of the bolts affix a bracket to the transmission. The bracket holds the connectors for the O2 sensors. Remove the bracket and pull it backwards out of the way.

5) I like the idea of grinding down the diameter of the tow hook so it seats farther into the threaded hole in the head.

6) There is a plastic coolant line that runs across the front of the subframe. It is a heater hose that goes to the heater core. It is screwed to the subframe at three (3) locations by torx screws. I recommend that this hose be freed from the subframe because it allows the subframe to drop another few inches and takes the stress off the hoses.

7) Don't be afraid to drastically pull and tug on the subframe once it is loose. It can be moved around quite a bit.

8) The gasket is made of rubber and metal. It will be stuck to the pan when you remove the pan. Pry up the metal gasket at the back of the pan and it will start to peel away. The rubber part of the gasket will be hard and brittle and stuck to the pan. I used a heat gun to soften it up. I recommend using a gasket removal tool (available at most auto parts stores) to remove the gasket. A good gasket removal tool is made of metal and looks like a small paint scraper.

9) No one brought it up, but I was wondering... I used Permatex Black gasket maker when I reinstalled the gasket. I don't think it is necessary and the gasket looks like it has some sort of glue on the surface that probably sets over time once the engine heats it up. That said, I don't plan on going in to replace the gasket again (my car will probably die before it leaks again), so I used a good deal of P-tex on the gasket.

10) Retorquing the bolts. I bought a 1/4 drive torque wrench just for this job. I found that after I snugged down the new pan bolts using a 1/4-drive ratchet, then putting the torque wrench to it, the bolts had already hit the 8 ft./lb. point. The specs call for torquing to 8 ft./lb. then another 90 deg. I ended up just torquing them by feel. They are aluminum bolts, so don't over torque them.

Some observations:

So my pan started leaking round 190,000 miles or so. It started leaking at the right rear corner near the bell housing. It seems this is where they all start to leak. I think I know why, which is why I decided to P-tex the new gasket. The oil windage tray on the bottom of the engine (you'll see it once the pan is out) spans almost the entire width of the bottom of the engine block. Being that the engine is slanted in position in the car, the windage tray lets oil drip right on to the gap between the bottom of the block and the oil pan. It's at an angle, so the oil just sits on the gap and eventually seeps through the gasket once the gasket hardens up. That's my thought anyway.

If your gasket is leaking, don't let it go as long as I did (100,000 miles). The problem is (and I discovered it when I just replaced my clutch a few weeks ago) the rear of the engine block where the pan gap is protrudes into the bell housing behind the flywheel. The clutch pressure plate has fan blades cut into it for cooling the clutch. Once the pan starts leaking, the fan action draws the leaking oil from the pan and spins it all over the inside of the bell housing and just makes a complete mess. Worst off the oil mess will lead you to think the rear crank seal is leaking. Mine was perfectly dry.

Hope this helps.
On your step 4 did you mean automatic cars?
__________________
???
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2016, 01:47 PM   #60
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16951
Rep
18,580
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KrashFinatik View Post
On your step 4 did you mean automatic cars?
Nope, manuals. My '06 325i has three E12 Torx bolts that thread through the backing plate on the engine block. The two lower bolts hold a bracket at the bottom of the bell housing. The 3rd bolt is on the left side of the bell housing near the slave cylinder. The bolts protrude far enough to get in the way of dropping the rear of the pan freely. At least on my car anyway.
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Appreciate 0
      01-23-2016, 02:49 PM   #61
PichaDis11
Colonel
PichaDis11's Avatar
United_States
295
Rep
2,201
Posts

Drives: E90 N52
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Nope, manuals. My '06 325i has three E12 Torx bolts that thread through the backing plate on the engine block. The two lower bolts hold a bracket at the bottom of the bell housing. The 3rd bolt is on the left side of the bell housing near the slave cylinder. The bolts protrude far enough to get in the way of dropping the rear of the pan freely. At least on my car anyway.
Big question Gentlemen, I've got a hunch to do this job inclusive of doing a suspension refresh. Struts and springs, new control arms etc. Would it be possible to drop the subframe entirely and remove to a work bench or so to do a slight install of the bottom half of the suspension bits?

I'm thinking remove the subframe. replace this gasket, washout if I can a few areas of oil, dirt etc. Then proceed to work on Suspension bits etc. I know of removing the brake lines (May replace those) Just want to know if its easier to work with the subframe off the car per say. FYI car does not have xdrive.
__________________
Retrofits: 322, 609, 6FL, 6NR, 6VC, 2TB..
Upgrades: Bilstein B8 Eibach Spring kit
Appreciate 0
      01-23-2016, 03:05 PM   #62
mlifxs
Diamond Geezer
mlifxs's Avatar
212
Rep
2,385
Posts

Drives: Jet Black 2007 328i Saloon
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by PichaDis11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Nope, manuals. My '06 325i has three E12 Torx bolts that thread through the backing plate on the engine block. The two lower bolts hold a bracket at the bottom of the bell housing. The 3rd bolt is on the left side of the bell housing near the slave cylinder. The bolts protrude far enough to get in the way of dropping the rear of the pan freely. At least on my car anyway.
Big question Gentlemen, I've got a hunch to do this job inclusive of doing a suspension refresh. Struts and springs, new control arms etc. Would it be possible to drop the subframe entirely and remove to a work bench or so to do a slight install of the bottom half of the suspension bits?

I'm thinking remove the subframe. replace this gasket, washout if I can a few areas of oil, dirt etc. Then proceed to work on Suspension bits etc. I know of removing the brake lines (May replace those) Just want to know if its easier to work with the subframe off the car per say. FYI car does not have xdrive.
you should contact member "simon". iirc he removed the subframe for his gasket / motor mount replacement.
Appreciate 1
      01-23-2016, 04:40 PM   #63
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16951
Rep
18,580
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PichaDis11 View Post
Big question Gentlemen, I've got a hunch to do this job inclusive of doing a suspension refresh. Struts and springs, new control arms etc. Would it be possible to drop the subframe entirely and remove to a work bench or so to do a slight install of the bottom half of the suspension bits?

I'm thinking remove the subframe. replace this gasket, washout if I can a few areas of oil, dirt etc. Then proceed to work on Suspension bits etc. I know of removing the brake lines (May replace those) Just want to know if its easier to work with the subframe off the car per say. FYI car does not have xdrive.
Seems like too much work to me. But it would make removing the oil pan way easier. If you are going to do new tierods, thrust arms, and control arms along with struts, then the only extra work is unbolting the steering column. Replacing brake lines is a waste of money. I'm assuming you'll go with braded lines, which look cool but really don't increase brake performance. Factory lines have the braiding encapsulated in the rubber line, you just can't see it. I did braided lines on my E30 years ago and never noticed a difference. In fact a shop broke one replacing a diff flange seal and replaced it with a factory line. I never noticed a difference and never replaced it with a braided line. My 2 cents.
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Appreciate 1
      01-23-2016, 06:00 PM   #64
PichaDis11
Colonel
PichaDis11's Avatar
United_States
295
Rep
2,201
Posts

Drives: E90 N52
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Seems like too much work to me. But it would make removing the oil pan way easier. If you are going to do new tierods, thrust arms, and control arms along with struts, then the only extra work is unbolting the steering column. Replacing brake lines is a waste of money. I'm assuming you'll go with braded lines, which look cool but really don't increase brake performance. Factory lines have the braiding encapsulated in the rubber line, you just can't see it. I did braided lines on my E30 years ago and never noticed a difference. In fact a shop broke one replacing a diff flange seal and replaced it with a factory line. I never noticed a difference and never replaced it with a braided line. My 2 cents.
Fair enough. I had the same thoughts regarding it being too much work. Plus I'd be doing all this on Jack Stands. Would get pretty Heavy. I appreciate the pointers there with the rubber lines.
__________________
Retrofits: 322, 609, 6FL, 6NR, 6VC, 2TB..
Upgrades: Bilstein B8 Eibach Spring kit
Appreciate 0
      01-24-2016, 04:32 PM   #65
SoCalE90i
New Member
0
Rep
5
Posts

Drives: 2007 328i
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: So Cal

iTrader: (0)

Thanks for this very helpful thread. I did the job on my 2007 328i this weekend. A few things that may help others in the future:

1. You'll see some other threads about trying to do this without dropping the subframe, by cutting the gasket, etc. That's some seriously bad advice.

First, there's no way to ensure that nothing will drop into the oil pan while you are doing this. And there's a good chance junk will drop in there. If it does, there's no way to get it out, because there will be at least a half quart of oil left in the bottom of the pan that the junk will drop into.

Second, not dropping the subframe will make the job longer and harder. Everything is harder to get to with the subframe in place. And dropping it is only a few bolts, it's very quick and easy, both to get it down and to get it back up. In the context of this job, not dropping the subframe doesn't safe time. I've been wrenching for 30 years and love shortcuts, but not dropping the subframe isn't a shortcut, is a crazy hack and is bad advice.

2. The OP must have a Turbo (??), with oil return line going to the oil pan. There was no oil return line attached to my '07 328i pan.

3. The OP must also be a manual trans. For those of us with automatics, there's 2 oil cooler lines that run right near the upper row of oil pan bolts and is attached to the pan with 2 brackets and 10mm nuts. Makes it a little bit of a pain to get to those bolts.

4. My car didn't have the angle sensor on the control arm, as shown in the original post.

5. On my car, there's a hard coolant line that is attached to the front of the subframe, it's connected with a soft hose to the water pump and held to the subframe by 2 Torx bolts. This needs to be detached from the subframe, otherwise it doesn't drop down far enough to easily remove the oil pan.

6. I used a regular, straight engine support bar (not the 3 prong one like in the original post). It worked fine. Any engine support bar is going to be way overkill, since they are designed to hold engines that aren't attached to the transmission, which puts the full weight of the engine on it. Since we're not removing the trans, the bar isn't holding much weight.

7. You're gonna need a good selection of extensions and wobble joints to get to all the oil pan bolts.

8. There's nothing hard about the job. It does take some time, though, just given the number of bolts and screw that need to be undone. Between the plastic shields under the car, the oil pan bolts, etc., it's dozens of screws, nuts, bolts that need to be undone. Nothing hard, just a little time consuming.

9. I didn't take the front wheels off, didn't need to.

10. My car had 58,000 miles on it. The bolts were still tight, but the gasket was leaking in numerous spots.

11. The factory didn't use any sealant (that I could see) on the gasket. I went back an forth on whether to use it. On the one hand, the factory didn't use it. But on the other hand, the factory job started leaking in 50K miles. I decided to use a thin layer of Dirko (a German RTV sealant used by BMW and MB) on both sides of the gasket. We'll see if that was a good decision in the long run.

Anyways, thanks for a great writeup! It was very helpful.
Appreciate 0
      01-24-2016, 04:34 PM   #66
SoCalE90i
New Member
0
Rep
5
Posts

Drives: 2007 328i
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: So Cal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Nope, manuals. My '06 325i has three E12 Torx bolts that thread through the backing plate on the engine block. The two lower bolts hold a bracket at the bottom of the bell housing. The 3rd bolt is on the left side of the bell housing near the slave cylinder. The bolts protrude far enough to get in the way of dropping the rear of the pan freely. At least on my car anyway.
My automatic had those three bolts and bracket, too.
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:13 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST