Water Pump not Bleeding

ae0622 · 07-12-2018, 10:13 AM

2006 - 325i - e90 - 135,000 Miles.
My water pump was just replaced 3 years ago.

One my way to work, I noticed my coolant light turned on. I was about 7 minutes away from work. Made it there without any overheating issues.

At lunch I opened the hood to add coolant and noticed my upper radiator hose was cracked and the plastic inside the hose of the connection was broken. Tried to disconnect the hose, but ended up breaking off a piece of the plastic radiator.

Towed to an indy shop so they could replace the radiator. They looked at everything to assess the cause. They just informed me they can't get the water pump to bleed, so they think the water pump is what caused the crack in the hose. But they did not find ANY water pump fault codes or overheating codes. They've tried 5 times to initialize the bleed, but it won't work.

Thoughts? Is it possible the water pump is still working, but is not initializing the bleed process?

Efthreeoh · 07-12-2018, 10:41 AM

Are you sure they know what they are doing? Ask them the procedure they are following and report back, so we can confirm they are bleeding it correctly.

Bimmer Pleaser · 07-12-2018, 10:48 AM

Might be a stupid question but how can water pump crack a hose?

E90Graphite07 · 07-12-2018, 10:48 AM

Get it scanned, it should return a DTC for a failing (or low voltage response) water pump. How exactly were they trying to bleed the system? Are they using the 12min self-running step, or what? We can't tell if they know what they're doing.

ae0622 · 07-12-2018, 02:39 PM

They performed the 12 minute self running test.

He told me, insert key, press start without turning on engine, turn heat all the way up, set fan to low, hold gas for 10 seconds.

They also tried to check for fault codes and found nothing signifying a bad water pump.

They said they believe the water pump heated the engine which caused extreme heat and pressure and cracked the hose.

When my water pump went out the first time, the engine overheated quickly and the fan ran very LOUD. None of these things happened this time. I believe they misdiagnosed the cause of the cracked hose.

kaw900r · 07-12-2018, 03:02 PM

Having issue bleeding new pump, I have tried the 12 minute deal several times and doesn't seem to do anything. Car over heated yesterday and had to keep stopping to make it home less than a mile. Any ideas

Should I be able to hear the pump during the 12 min cycle?

Also I had car running to get temp up in driveway with heat on and it finally did start pushing out heat finally. Let it run temp went yellow and back out. Let it run a little longer and turned it off. While getting ready to see if any air comes out of bleeder I hear a motor running and has to be water pump. Went for a couple minutes and stopped. Will check fluids when it cools down. Also wondering could I have a bad sensor.

e90yyc · 07-12-2018, 03:08 PM

I recently drained, refilled, and bled my cooling system after I sheared the expansion tank hose nipple off the upper rad hose. Those plastic connectors are a b*tch! I was sure I was going to break the one on the rad side when disconnecting the hose; thank god I didn't...

This is the procedure I followed. I realize this is 99% what you're describing your mechanic as doing, but did he observe the part about opening the bleed screw and filling until bubble-free fluid emerges, then tightening it back up? Perhaps I'm grasping at straws here since the procedure as a whole is fairly straightforward, and I'm sure this guy knows how to do this job.

When I ran the bleed procedure, it sounded like there was still air in the system. I ran it again, and the sound really didn't change. But about 1000 miles and one month later, I haven't had any issues. I monitored coolant temp closely post-replacement, and everything seemed okay.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...-drive/OYeyvvP

I also think your mechanic's theory about the water pump somehow causing this hose failure is ridiculous. Just my opinion though.

It's possible to activate the bleed procedure with a suitable scanner or the correct software. Hopefully they've tried this too, but you never know.

ae0622 · 07-13-2018, 07:26 AM

Will the bleeding procedure initiate if the coolant tank is empty? they still have the radiator hose unattached and haven't replaced the radiator yet.

I don't know if there's a minimum level that needs to be in the tank for the bleeding procedure to work.

e90yyc · 07-13-2018, 07:48 AM

I may be missing something, but why on earth would they be trying to bleed the cooling system with no rad hose or radiator??

This procedure should be done after the system has been refilled. Last step in the process.

ae0622 · 07-13-2018, 08:05 AM

They were trying to be proactive to give me a rough idea of cost. He didn't recommend changing it out until they installed the radiator, but wanted to let me know there could be a bigger problem that caused the hose to crack.

e90yyc · 07-13-2018, 09:47 AM

Okay, so here's a summary of how I understand this situation. Please let me know if I'm off on any of these points:

new water pump 3 years ago
coolant (not temp) warning came on
opened hood, discovered cracked rad hose
tried to remove the hose and cracked rad
brought to Indy who is convinced your water pump somehow caused the hose to crack

Here's where I'm getting jammed up:

If their plan is to somehow test the water pump by running the bleed procedure, that is not the correct way to do it. I'm all for being thorough and not just throwing parts at a problem, but I'm baffled as to how they think the water pump somehow caused your hose to fail. It would also be surprising to see your 3-year-old water pump fail. If your car had overheated, I'd be a bit more inclined to believe that contributed to the cracking, but that isn't even the case...

These hoses are known to be brittle (as you learned when trying to remove the upper rad hose), so it's not as if this is an incredibly uncommon failure that warrants JFK-worthy theories.

If there are no codes related to the water pump, I'd be very very surprised if it's your culprit. Even if there were--without an overheating event--I'd still be surprised if it was somehow "to blame" for this cracked hose.

If they want to test the water pump by running it, there are activation procedures/functional tests that exist for this purpose, that allow activation of the pump at a specific speed/output (15%, 50%, 100%, for example). With their scanner/software, they should have the ability to do this. Even as an amateur n00b, I wouldn't be trying to test my pump by initializing a 12-minute automatic bleed procedure.

Just my $0.02 man. Hope this helps. It's just very hard to understand why it is they think the water pump is to blame, and what they're hoping to gain by running the bleed procedure with a partially-empty cooling system.

ChuckThomas · 07-13-2018, 09:52 PM

Water pump either works or not. Take the pump out and hook it up directly to a power source. If it works, you have an electrical hiccup. If it doesn't get a new pump and keep it pushing.

hassmaschine · 07-13-2018, 11:56 PM

You can't just power the pump with 12v - it has a built in controller that runs off the signal from the BSD bus.

But I concur it doesn't make sense for the pump to be the issue. I'd replace the hoses and radiator.

Efthreeoh · 07-14-2018, 05:39 AM

So re-reading this thread, I'm now thinking there is a piece of plastic in the pump causing it to not operate. The only issue with this theory is there is a DTC (code) for a jammed pump. Which now has me considering that we all are not being specific about the diagnostic trouble codes.

OP are you sure the indy is a qualified BMW mechanic and is using a BMW scan tool to scan for codes? If he is using an OBDII scan tool, then he'll not find any water pump DTC's because the water pump trouble codes are BMW proprietary and only show up with a BMW scan tool. Also as e90ycc stated, the shop should be able to activate the WP test procedure (and bleeding procedure) with a BMW scan tool.

Efthreeoh · 07-14-2018, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bimmer Pleaser

Might be a stupid question but how can water pump crack a hose?

By falling off the work bench onto the hose that's sitting on the floor?

Papibmw328xi · 10-24-2018, 06:37 PM

I have been having the same issue. little history on my car around 13 months i had the same problem car went into limp mode and i took it home and changed the thermostat and all was good, back on the road. Fast forward to now and it is having the same overheating issues, even though i changed the water pump last year i replaced both water pump and thermostat. when the car still overheated afterwards i took it to Bmw and they said it was a faulty water pump so i changed the water pump again and im still having the same issues. Also when i would try to bleed the cooling system the water pump would not cycle through to bleed it. so it leaves me wondering if i put everything back on or if im having a different issue maybe fan or radiator. i have ruled out the head gasket because there was no signs of oil in my coolant when i flushed it. Im stuck on what else to do that will make it run normally.

07-12-2018, 10:13 AM	#1
ae0622 New Member 3 Rep 8 Posts Drives: 2006 BMW 325i Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Indianapolis iTrader: (0)	Water Pump not Bleeding 2006 - 325i - e90 - 135,000 Miles. My water pump was just replaced 3 years ago. One my way to work, I noticed my coolant light turned on. I was about 7 minutes away from work. Made it there without any overheating issues. At lunch I opened the hood to add coolant and noticed my upper radiator hose was cracked and the plastic inside the hose of the connection was broken. Tried to disconnect the hose, but ended up breaking off a piece of the plastic radiator. Towed to an indy shop so they could replace the radiator. They looked at everything to assess the cause. They just informed me they can't get the water pump to bleed, so they think the water pump is what caused the crack in the hose. But they did not find ANY water pump fault codes or overheating codes. They've tried 5 times to initialize the bleed, but it won't work. Thoughts? Is it possible the water pump is still working, but is not initializing the bleed process?
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07-12-2018, 10:41 AM	#2
Efthreeoh General 17208 Rep 18,697 Posts Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster Join Date: May 2012 Location: Virginia iTrader: (0)	Are you sure they know what they are doing? Ask them the procedure they are following and report back, so we can confirm they are bleeding it correctly.
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07-12-2018, 10:48 AM	#3
Bimmer Pleaser First Lieutenant 205 Rep 349 Posts Drives: nothing Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Pike Place iTrader: (0)	Might be a stupid question but how can water pump crack a hose?
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07-12-2018, 10:48 AM	#4
E90Graphite07 Lieutenant 104 Rep 596 Posts Drives: 07 E90 335i Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Texas iTrader: (0)	Get it scanned, it should return a DTC for a failing (or low voltage response) water pump. How exactly were they trying to bleed the system? Are they using the 12min self-running step, or what? We can't tell if they know what they're doing. __________________ 2007 BMW 335i, 2014 Audi A4, 2016 Acura MDX Join us on Facebook: E90Post - Houston Houston BMW DIY Services
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07-12-2018, 02:39 PM	#5
ae0622 New Member 3 Rep 8 Posts Drives: 2006 BMW 325i Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Indianapolis iTrader: (0)	They performed the 12 minute self running test. He told me, insert key, press start without turning on engine, turn heat all the way up, set fan to low, hold gas for 10 seconds. They also tried to check for fault codes and found nothing signifying a bad water pump. They said they believe the water pump heated the engine which caused extreme heat and pressure and cracked the hose. When my water pump went out the first time, the engine overheated quickly and the fan ran very LOUD. None of these things happened this time. I believe they misdiagnosed the cause of the cracked hose.
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07-12-2018, 03:02 PM	#6
kaw900r Private 4 Rep 82 Posts Drives: 06 325xi Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Ohio iTrader: (0)	Having issue bleeding new pump, I have tried the 12 minute deal several times and doesn't seem to do anything. Car over heated yesterday and had to keep stopping to make it home less than a mile. Any ideas Should I be able to hear the pump during the 12 min cycle? Also I had car running to get temp up in driveway with heat on and it finally did start pushing out heat finally. Let it run temp went yellow and back out. Let it run a little longer and turned it off. While getting ready to see if any air comes out of bleeder I hear a motor running and has to be water pump. Went for a couple minutes and stopped. Will check fluids when it cools down. Also wondering could I have a bad sensor. Last edited by kaw900r; 07-12-2018 at 03:37 PM.. Reason: Adding
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07-12-2018, 03:08 PM	#7
e90yyc Art Collector 2424 Rep 3,449 Posts Drives: 2007 328xi (GM-delete 6MT) Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Canada iTrader: (0)	I recently drained, refilled, and bled my cooling system after I sheared the expansion tank hose nipple off the upper rad hose. Those plastic connectors are a btch! I was sure I was going to break the one on the rad side when disconnecting the hose; thank god I didn't... This is the procedure I followed. I realize this is 99% what you're describing your mechanic as doing, but did he observe the part about opening the bleed screw and filling until bubble-free fluid emerges, then tightening it back up? Perhaps I'm grasping at straws here since the procedure as a whole is fairly straightforward, and I'm sure this guy knows how to do this job. When I ran the bleed procedure, it sounded like there was still air in the system. I ran it again, and the sound really didn't change. But about 1000 miles and one month later, I haven't had any issues. I monitored coolant temp closely post-replacement, and everything seemed okay. https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...-drive/OYeyvvP I also think your mechanic's theory about the water pump somehow causing this hose failure is ridiculous. Just my opinion though. It's possible to activate the bleed procedure with a suitable scanner or the correct software. Hopefully they've tried this too, but you never know. Last edited by e90yyc; 07-12-2018 at 03:16 PM..*
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07-13-2018, 07:26 AM	#8
ae0622 New Member 3 Rep 8 Posts Drives: 2006 BMW 325i Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Indianapolis iTrader: (0)	Will the bleeding procedure initiate if the coolant tank is empty? they still have the radiator hose unattached and haven't replaced the radiator yet. I don't know if there's a minimum level that needs to be in the tank for the bleeding procedure to work.
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07-13-2018, 07:48 AM	#9
e90yyc Art Collector 2424 Rep 3,449 Posts Drives: 2007 328xi (GM-delete 6MT) Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Canada iTrader: (0)	I may be missing something, but why on earth would they be trying to bleed the cooling system with no rad hose or radiator?? This procedure should be done after the system has been refilled. Last step in the process.
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07-13-2018, 08:05 AM	#10
ae0622 New Member 3 Rep 8 Posts Drives: 2006 BMW 325i Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Indianapolis iTrader: (0)	They were trying to be proactive to give me a rough idea of cost. He didn't recommend changing it out until they installed the radiator, but wanted to let me know there could be a bigger problem that caused the hose to crack.
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07-13-2018, 09:47 AM	#11
e90yyc Art Collector 2424 Rep 3,449 Posts Drives: 2007 328xi (GM-delete 6MT) Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Canada iTrader: (0)	Okay, so here's a summary of how I understand this situation. Please let me know if I'm off on any of these points: new water pump 3 years ago coolant (not temp) warning came on opened hood, discovered cracked rad hose tried to remove the hose and cracked rad brought to Indy who is convinced your water pump somehow caused the hose to crack Here's where I'm getting jammed up: If their plan is to somehow test the water pump by running the bleed procedure, that is not the correct way to do it. I'm all for being thorough and not just throwing parts at a problem, but I'm baffled as to how they think the water pump somehow caused your hose to fail. It would also be surprising to see your 3-year-old water pump fail. If your car had overheated, I'd be a bit more inclined to believe that contributed to the cracking, but that isn't even the case... These hoses are known to be brittle (as you learned when trying to remove the upper rad hose), so it's not as if this is an incredibly uncommon failure that warrants JFK-worthy theories. If there are no codes related to the water pump, I'd be very very surprised if it's your culprit. Even if there were--without an overheating event--I'd still be surprised if it was somehow "to blame" for this cracked hose. If they want to test the water pump by running it, there are activation procedures/functional tests that exist for this purpose, that allow activation of the pump at a specific speed/output (15%, 50%, 100%, for example). With their scanner/software, they should have the ability to do this. Even as an amateur n00b, I wouldn't be trying to test my pump by initializing a 12-minute automatic bleed procedure. Just my $0.02 man. Hope this helps. It's just very hard to understand why it is they think the water pump is to blame, and what they're hoping to gain by running the bleed procedure with a partially-empty cooling system.
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07-13-2018, 09:52 PM	#12
ChuckThomas Dealer Speed 64 Rep 140 Posts Drives: 07 328 E90 Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: North Carolina iTrader: (0)	Water pump either works or not. Take the pump out and hook it up directly to a power source. If it works, you have an electrical hiccup. If it doesn't get a new pump and keep it pushing. __________________ CT
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07-13-2018, 11:56 PM	#13
hassmaschine Major General 3966 Rep 7,215 Posts Drives: "NBO" 330i Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: earth iTrader: (0)	You can't just power the pump with 12v - it has a built in controller that runs off the signal from the BSD bus. But I concur it doesn't make sense for the pump to be the issue. I'd replace the hoses and radiator.
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07-14-2018, 05:39 AM	#14
Efthreeoh General 17208 Rep 18,697 Posts Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster Join Date: May 2012 Location: Virginia iTrader: (0)	So re-reading this thread, I'm now thinking there is a piece of plastic in the pump causing it to not operate. The only issue with this theory is there is a DTC (code) for a jammed pump. Which now has me considering that we all are not being specific about the diagnostic trouble codes. OP are you sure the indy is a qualified BMW mechanic and is using a BMW scan tool to scan for codes? If he is using an OBDII scan tool, then he'll not find any water pump DTC's because the water pump trouble codes are BMW proprietary and only show up with a BMW scan tool. Also as e90ycc stated, the shop should be able to activate the WP test procedure (and bleeding procedure) with a BMW scan tool. __________________ A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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10-24-2018, 06:37 PM	#16
Papibmw328xi New Member 0 Rep 6 Posts Drives: 2007 Bmw 328 XI Sport E90 Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Shillington, PA iTrader: (0)	I have been having the same issue. little history on my car around 13 months i had the same problem car went into limp mode and i took it home and changed the thermostat and all was good, back on the road. Fast forward to now and it is having the same overheating issues, even though i changed the water pump last year i replaced both water pump and thermostat. when the car still overheated afterwards i took it to Bmw and they said it was a faulty water pump so i changed the water pump again and im still having the same issues. Also when i would try to bleed the cooling system the water pump would not cycle through to bleed it. so it leaves me wondering if i put everything back on or if im having a different issue maybe fan or radiator. i have ruled out the head gasket because there was no signs of oil in my coolant when i flushed it. Im stuck on what else to do that will make it run normally.
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