Bimmerpost for Android has just been updated to version 4.3.55 with a host of bug fixes. Try it out!

  E90Post
 


Bimmer Retrofit
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > I cloned my MSV70 DME



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-13-2018, 08:53 AM   #1937
mad1stgen
Second Lieutenant
United_States
35
Rep
253
Posts

Drives: 2011 E91 335I
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Metro Detroit, USA

iTrader: (30)

Having used this 128i->130i flash successfully on my 1er (which really transformed the car), I am itching to upgrade to 3IM on one of my 328xi wagons.
It might be just a temp thing though, so what steps/precautions should I take to be able to flash back to stock 328xi file if needed in the future ?
Appreciate 0
      06-13-2018, 09:08 AM   #1938
hassmaschine
Brigadier General
United_States
1981
Rep
4,723
Posts

Drives: "NBO" 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: earth

iTrader: (0)

There will be stock flashes available soon if you wanted to go back. But I don't know why you would.

Also, we're considering adding a feature so that the flash would be undetectable by a dealer or shop. It would have the same UIF and CVN (checksum) as stock. Unless they read out the whole binary and check it by hand they would never know.
Appreciate 0
      06-16-2018, 12:07 PM   #1939
Bufalo
Private
26
Rep
86
Posts

Drives: 2009 328i
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Harrisburg, PA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2017 BMW X3  [0.00]
2009 BMW 328i  [0.00]
I've had some errors and now a car that won't start, and so I've very obviously done something very wrong here. Can anyone tell me what my next step is to get the flashes AND THE CAR to work?
Attached Images
   

Last edited by Bufalo; 06-16-2018 at 12:18 PM.
Appreciate 0
      06-16-2018, 12:36 PM   #1940
hassmaschine
Brigadier General
United_States
1981
Rep
4,723
Posts

Drives: "NBO" 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bufalo View Post
I've had some errors and now a car that won't start, and so I've very obviously done something very wrong here. Can anyone tell me what my next step is to get the flashes AND THE CAR to work?
Greg,

Don't panic - it's probably something simple.

1) is your ignition turned on? The DME will run the erase procedure, but it can't flash with the ignition off.
2) did you disable boot sector update in the WinKFP options per my instructions?
3) do you have any other BMW programs running in the background?
4) did you verify that your cable was working by connecting to it with INPA, etc? Cable is set to Com1, etc?

You can always re-start the flash. The boot code doesn't get deleted in the erase procedure, so it's pretty much impossible to brick it. Verify the things above, and retry.

FYI, it's normal that the car won't start after a program write, even if it succeeds - the erase procedure also clears the parameter space, you will need to flash the 0da/tune before it will start.
Appreciate 0
      06-16-2018, 12:42 PM   #1941
Bufalo
Private
26
Rep
86
Posts

Drives: 2009 328i
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Harrisburg, PA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2017 BMW X3  [0.00]
2009 BMW 328i  [0.00]
I cycled the ignition and waited a few minutes. The RSA delete is running properly right now - thanks for the fast response! I had verified all else previously, INPA was active in the background so I closed out of it.


Edit - and all is well and working as it should!

Last edited by Bufalo; 06-16-2018 at 02:05 PM.
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2018, 01:38 PM   #1942
hassmaschine
Brigadier General
United_States
1981
Rep
4,723
Posts

Drives: "NBO" 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: earth

iTrader: (0)

New feature - you can download your ZB# (stock tune) as a zip file (batch WinKFP flash), raw 0da, or as a binary (supported DMEs include MS45, MSx70, MSx80, MSD81, MSS60/MSS65, and a few more I forget).
Appreciate 3
Phyrexia268.00
6ixSpd2427.00

      06-22-2018, 04:36 PM   #1943
freedomfries
09 E90 328i
freedomfries's Avatar
Canada
286
Rep
473
Posts

Drives: 09 E90 328i
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Vancouver

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2009 E90 328i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
the MAP sensor is just a MAP sensor. the IAT is built into the MAF. If you get a euro IAT, it replaces the MAF.

it looks like several people have downloaded it but I haven't had any feedback. I think it will work fine (keeping in mind it will not past an OBD2 emissions test).

You should be able to test it with your factory MAF, it will just ignore the sensor reading. If there's some major problem, just go back to the original 328i-330i tune, it only takes 40 seconds to flash anyway.

Also I don't recommend a no-MAF tune if you have headers. At least not until the feedback loop gets sorted for the different O2 sensor position.
I'm thinking of giving the no-MAF tune a try. The European IAT I have is 13627547822 and is the only version as far as I can tell so it should work?




Also, you mentioned that the throttle was "jumpy" in an older post (link). Is that still the case?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
I've been running the MAF delete tune for a few days ago - driven almost 300 miles on it. There's definitely something to it, especially it seems at lowish RPM - 1500-2500 seems like there's a lot more than before. Can't say there's a big peak difference, but I haven't dyno'd it yet.

Driveability wise, it's pretty smooth, starts and idles just like stock (because, well, it's all factory settings) - but I think the bump in low end torque makes it feel a little more "jumpy", as in throttle tip-in is more responsive than it was before. I'll probably end up getting used to it, or I could maybe smooth it out with a little throttle remapping. Not sure if it's the different algorithm being used, or if it's the reduced restriction, or both.
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2018, 09:52 PM   #1944
Blueeyesredpanda
Major
Blueeyesredpanda's Avatar
204
Rep
1,023
Posts

Drives: E90 / F30
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by freedomfries View Post
I'm thinking of giving the no-MAF tune a try. The European IAT I have is 13627547822 and is the only version as far as I can tell so it should work?




Also, you mentioned that the throttle was "jumpy" in an older post (link). Is that still the case?
Let me fix this for you.

I'm going to give the no-MAF tune a try. I have the European IAT 13627547822 and it should work.




Also, you mentioned that the throttle was "jumpy" in an older post (link). I will report back when the flash is done.
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2018, 10:33 PM   #1945
hassmaschine
Brigadier General
United_States
1981
Rep
4,723
Posts

Drives: "NBO" 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by freedomfries View Post
I'm thinking of giving the no-MAF tune a try. The European IAT I have is 13627547822 and is the only version as far as I can tell so it should work?
Yes, that will work fine. In fact, you dont even need it to run the no-maf tune - it just wont use the airflow measurement, and obviously it blocks a bit more of the air path.

Quote:
Also, you mentioned that the throttle was "jumpy" in an older post (link). Is that still the case?
I think it smoothed out. At least, I have been driving with it for almost 18 months now and it seems smooth and responsive, but not jumpy. I don't even remember posting that, lol.

FYI my wife also drives my car, and she never knew any difference. IMO, its perfect combined with a 6 speed - I can literally drop down to idle in 1st or 2nd gear in traffic, so i hardly need to use the clutch or brakes in stop & go. The MAF tune can't do that because the air velocity is too low for the sensor to work properly - it bucks and jerks below ~1200rpm.
Appreciate 0
      06-23-2018, 09:32 PM   #1946
freedomfries
09 E90 328i
freedomfries's Avatar
Canada
286
Rep
473
Posts

Drives: 09 E90 328i
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Vancouver

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2009 E90 328i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
Yes, that will work fine. In fact, you dont even need it to run the no-maf tune - it just wont use the airflow measurement, and obviously it blocks a bit more of the air path.



I think it smoothed out. At least, I have been driving with it for almost 18 months now and it seems smooth and responsive, but not jumpy. I don't even remember posting that, lol.

FYI my wife also drives my car, and she never knew any difference. IMO, its perfect combined with a 6 speed - I can literally drop down to idle in 1st or 2nd gear in traffic, so i hardly need to use the clutch or brakes in stop & go. The MAF tune can't do that because the air velocity is too low for the sensor to work properly - it bucks and jerks below ~1200rpm.
Thanks for the info. Should I reset adaptations after flashing?
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2018, 06:09 AM   #1947
_Ryan_
Captain
No_Country
46
Rep
750
Posts

Drives: E87 130i
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Melbourne, AU

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2005 BMW 130i  [2.62]
Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
Yes, that will work fine. In fact, you dont even need it to run the no-maf tune - it just wont use the airflow measurement, and obviously it blocks a bit more of the air path.



I think it smoothed out. At least, I have been driving with it for almost 18 months now and it seems smooth and responsive, but not jumpy. I don't even remember posting that, lol.

FYI my wife also drives my car, and she never knew any difference. IMO, its perfect combined with a 6 speed - I can literally drop down to idle in 1st or 2nd gear in traffic, so i hardly need to use the clutch or brakes in stop & go. The MAF tune can't do that because the air velocity is too low for the sensor to work properly - it bucks and jerks below ~1200rpm.

Interesting.

Have you observed any other benefits/trade-offs from the MAFless tune?
Also, have you found a way to tweak the responsiveness of the throttle? It'd be great if the delay could be reduced.
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2018, 10:37 AM   #1948
hassmaschine
Brigadier General
United_States
1981
Rep
4,723
Posts

Drives: "NBO" 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by freedomfries View Post
Thanks for the info. Should I reset adaptations after flashing?
It's fine to do, unless you're planning on getting an emissions inspection within the next month or so, because it also resets emissions monitors, then I would wait. Also you must do this with the ignition on (but car turned off) and you'll probably have to clear error codes and restart after the first startup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Ryan_ View Post
Interesting.

Have you observed any other benefits/trade-offs from the MAFless tune?
Also, have you found a way to tweak the responsiveness of the throttle? It'd be great if the delay could be reduced.
Pretty much what I wrote above. There's probably a small bump in power, but otherwise I can't ever have a MAF failure.

The throttle would be pretty easy to tweak. Is your car 6mt or auto? I haven't noticed any real 'lag' with the 6mt, but I think a lot of it comes from the custom tune.
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2018, 11:08 AM   #1949
Taskmaster
Major General
Taskmaster's Avatar
Japan
2156
Rep
8,404
Posts

Drives: E92 LCI Msport 6 Speed
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
It's fine to do, unless you're planning on getting an emissions inspection within the next month or so, because it also resets emissions monitors, then I would wait. Also you must do this with the ignition on (but car turned off) and you'll probably have to clear error codes and restart after the first startup.



Pretty much what I wrote above. There's probably a small bump in power, but otherwise I can't ever have a MAF failure.

The throttle would be pretty easy to tweak. Is your car 6mt or auto? I haven't noticed any real 'lag' with the 6mt, but I think a lot of it comes from the custom tune.
BPC had issues trying to adjust the throttle -

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...1447926&page=3

Long and short was the Sprint Booster caused a torque overflow issue - adjusting the throttle tip in on the tune did as well? I think this is just because the MILVS are producing so much more torque than normal...
__________________
Axiom - E92 Msport 6MT: Bolt ons - MILV - BPC tune.
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2018, 11:33 AM   #1950
hassmaschine
Brigadier General
United_States
1981
Rep
4,723
Posts

Drives: "NBO" 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: earth

iTrader: (0)

torque overflow errors are common when actually increasing torque on these motors - but those are relatively simple to solve. I wouldn't expect altering the throttle curve (which is literally just a single value which defines the slope) to have a large effect but it might be necessary to adjust some of the torque monitoring maps.
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2018, 05:33 PM   #1951
Jonas225
New Member
0
Rep
8
Posts

Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Bavaria, Germany

iTrader: (0)

Hi @hassmaschine,

I didn‘t read all 89 pages but maybe you can answer a few questions. It‘s for my better understanding. I‘m familiar with coding but not with mapping (yet).
I read a lot of the xHP thread and the RSA signature, whichs is used for (some) ECUs.

Some have a 512-bit and some have a 1024-bit signature.

1. Which ECU has which signature?

The 512-bit signing key is now known and we (you) can sign a modified 0da file.

2. What about the 1024- bit signature? How does xHP sign/bypass their custom files? How did they crack that 1024-bit signature and sign their files?

At Bimmerlabs there are 0pa files with RSA delete.

3. What is changed in this file? Why doesn‘t WinKFP reject to flash the modified 0da file?

For modifying the 0da files we have to convert is to .bins or read the ECU.

4. Is there a tool to convert the modified .bin to a 0da file again? Where can I download that tool?
5. Is there also a tool for signing these modified files?

I have a 2011 BMW 116i E87 here with MSD81 and N43B20 engine and want to upgrade the software to get the same power as the 118i (complete same hardware). As far as I know I can modify the power class of a 118i 0da to match the power class stored in CAS.

6. Is that right? Will there be support for that engine in Bimmerlabs?

The engine (N43B20) is the same for the 116i/118i/120i. The 116i and 118i has the same hardware. The 120i has a different intake manifold (2 stage), different camshaft, exhaust manifold,...

So upgrading to OEM 118i software should be safe.
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2018, 05:56 PM   #1952
hassmaschine
Brigadier General
United_States
1981
Rep
4,723
Posts

Drives: "NBO" 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas225 View Post
Hi @hassmaschine,

I didn‘t read all 89 pages but maybe you can answer a few questions. It‘s for my better understanding. I‘m familiar with coding but not with mapping (yet).
I read a lot of the xHP thread and the RSA signature, whichs is used for (some) ECUs.

Some have a 512-bit and some have a 1024-bit signature.

1. Which ECU has which signature?

The 512-bit signing key is now known and we (you) can sign a modified 0da file.
The ZF trans uses 512 bits - GM uses 1024 bits. Aside from MS45, all of the DMEs that use RSA are at least 1024 bit.

Quote:

2. What about the 1024- bit signature? How does xHP sign/bypass their custom files? How did they crack that 1024-bit signature and sign their files?
Basically they are modifying RAM values with a special command to bypass the signature check. I'll bet the new N55 OBD-only flashes do something similar.

On the transmissions the program is compressed, so it's not possible to disassemble and hack the code like we did for the other DMEs, which is why they do it that way. With the ZF, we don't need to bypass the RSA signature check since the signature is valid anyway.

Quote:

At Bimmerlabs there are 0pa files with RSA delete.

3. What is changed in this file? Why doesn‘t WinKFP reject to flash the modified 0da file?
The main changes are to disable the RSA signature check on future flashes (program or parameter). WinKFP doesn't reject the flash because of security holes in Siemen's implementation of the RSA signature. Basically, it thinks the signature is valid even though it's not, because we have constructed the file to trick the signature check algorithm.

Quote:

For modifying the 0da files we have to convert is to .bins or read the ECU.

4. Is there a tool to convert the modified .bin to a 0da file again? Where can I download that tool?
5. Is there also a tool for signing these modified files?
The tool is built into Bimmerlabs. I don't have it fully exposed to the public yet - if we have the RSA key, it already signs the file for you, there's no separate program for that. I'm still deciding how exactly making it available to everyone will work.

Quote:

I have a 2011 BMW 116i E87 here with MSD81 and N43B20 engine and want to upgrade the software to get the same power as the 118i (complete same hardware). As far as I know I can modify the power class of a 118i 0da to match the power class stored in CAS.

6. Is that right? Will there be support for that engine in Bimmerlabs?

The engine (N43B20) is the same for the 116i/118i/120i. The 116i and 118i has the same hardware. The 120i has a different intake manifold (2 stage), different camshaft, exhaust manifold,...

So upgrading to OEM 118i software should be safe.
I have looked at that a little bit and I think it is possible to do. But basically yes, you could change the power class on the 118i file and flash it to your 116i. Bimmerlabs could support it providing I knew which file it needed to be (not hard to find) and assuming I know the location of the power class byte and have an RSA delete for your specific program version.

Last edited by hassmaschine; 06-26-2018 at 06:19 PM.
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2018, 07:14 PM   #1953
Terraphantm
Captain
175
Rep
606
Posts

Drives: E46 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: N/A

iTrader: (1)

So the 4-cylinder models seem to use the MSD81.2 rather than the MSD80/81 like their 6-cylinder cousins. Undoubtedly the code is very similar, but without seeing a full dump, it's hard to say one way or another whether we can support it for sure.
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2018, 07:27 PM   #1954
Jonas225
New Member
0
Rep
8
Posts

Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Bavaria, Germany

iTrader: (0)

Wow, thank you for the fast answer!

I can check the ZUSB next week. I can also provide a dump of the ECU. With the BB app it should be easy.

All ZF have 512 bit? So we can modify the 0da, sign it and flash it without the need of xHP?

In conclusion:
ECU‘s with 512 bit can be signed and flashed

ECU‘s with 1024 bit (or more) can‘t be signed because the key is unknown. You have a bypass for the 0pa file. That deactivates the „check“ in the 0da file. -> RSA delete

Is that right?
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2018, 07:33 PM   #1955
hassmaschine
Brigadier General
United_States
1981
Rep
4,723
Posts

Drives: "NBO" 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: earth

iTrader: (0)

Yes, that is correct.
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2018, 07:41 PM   #1956
Jonas225
New Member
0
Rep
8
Posts

Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Bavaria, Germany

iTrader: (0)

In the xHP thread dave said the 6HP26/28 uses 1024 bit and the 6HP19/21 512?

You say all ZFs use 512?
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2018, 08:07 PM   #1957
rjahl
Major
rjahl's Avatar
425
Rep
1,293
Posts

Drives: Z4 35is
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tampa

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2012 Z4 35is  [0.00]
He's partially correct, early 6 speed ZF transmissions use 512. Second generation and newer use 1024.

Bimmerlabs handles the first generation very well.
Appreciate 0
      06-26-2018, 08:20 PM   #1958
hassmaschine
Brigadier General
United_States
1981
Rep
4,723
Posts

Drives: "NBO" 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: earth

iTrader: (0)

Pre-lci it looks like GKE191 to me - which is 512 bit.

We support GKE191/211/195/215
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:44 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST