Removing CIC completely, pitfalls, new project idea

dr4stic · 05-27-2023, 03:29 PM

I've made a post before along these lines, but I believe at this point I've fleshed out my idea a bit and have a path forward.

First, question: If I have a 2011 328i E92 w/ CIC and the Logic 7... what are the dangers (if any) of fully removing the CIC? Not inconveniences, I mean dangers...

Near as I can tell the CIC provides Bluetooth (old and temperamental), Maps (also old and temperamental), CD & MP3 (uhhhh...) and then some car functions which I don't know if I can handle elsewhere:

Tire pressure management
Car error notifications
Turning signal, lighting and other preferences

In my situation am I right to assume the CIC is the MOST host controller? And therefore without it and a loopback in place, no audio will be sent to the amp?

How much control can I exert by tapping into the CAN available to the CIC? From diagrams I've found, I believe I should be able to control a number of things with the KCAN bus that feeds into the CIC, including possibly the AC control. However I don't think I've found any comprehensive lists of the available protocols. I'm also thinking of secondarily tapping into the PT-CAN somewhere else in the car (if necessary).

I'm starting a project where I'm looking to replace the CIC completely, as well as probably the Logic 7 since I'm guessing it'll be useless once the CIC is gone. I'd like to replace the AC controls as well as the connected buttons (PDC, rear shade, etc).

My goal is to build out a system with a UI that replaces CIC functionality, adds some new functionality. I'm not gonna list out my lofty goals and plans at the moment. I need to manifest them first. I am just trying to make sure I'm not on track to do something particularly damaging to my vehicle.

At the moment, I'm planning to do this:

Remove CIC
Remove A/C controls
Turn the whole panel under the A/C vents into a long top down screen
Hack one of the two android/linux CIC screen replacements I bought into a second screen for my replacement system for stuff like AA/CarPlay or system informational output
Replace the Logic 7 with some sort of high quality aftermarket amp

Am I crazy? Yes... I know I'm crazy. But, is this unreasonably impossible?

ctuna · 05-27-2023, 10:54 PM

BMW may refuse to work on your car.
The modules hanging of the Most Bust may cause
errors on the Instrument cluster the SOS error is the most famous one.

How are you going to account for the Display bump .
If you put in a double din the display bump becomes a blank hole.
There are a few Genius that figured out how to run two display's
but I have only seen this once here.

You can talk to the guys on the coding board but you are opening a can
of worms.

And it will cost you a lot .
Replacing the logic 7 system is a can of worms as well.
But that would be worth doing if you did it right.
The head unit is the idrive and a lot of error messages from
the car come through it.

dr4stic · 05-28-2023, 01:22 AM

I'm not worried about using BMW for maintenance, I tend to frequent indie shops.

I'm still in the experimental information gathering phase, so these are more cookie dough ideas than half baked ones. I'm also well aware the initial phase will be a 1-2 year venture.

Other than the amplifier, I can't see that any modules from the MOST bus are necessary in 2023. Near as I can tell this is the COMBOX that came with my LCI model (I specifically scheduled my production for the month this became available), CD Changer which I don't have, the amp, and the "head unit" which in my case is the CIC. I'm honestly tempted to remove the MOST bus all together if I replace the CIC the way I'd like. The amp would get a more traditional connection than MOST if I replace it.

At the moment I'm starting with a Pi board and a build of android automotive. Replacing the fascia and selecting a screen are secondary to building the initial interface, which will happen at my hobby desk. Modern Pi's support dual displays, so I'm thinking my display bump will eventually serve as a secondary display, with a mostly informational purpose to it.

I'm looking for a list of errors that are typically displayed through the CIC, I'm sure I'll eventually amass and replicate the list of errors from the data on the CAN buses.

I'm not worried about the worms... well, I'm a little worried about the worms, but I've resigned myself to them at this point. I'm a little worried about the cost as well, but I'm chalking that up to my professional development.

ctuna · 05-28-2023, 11:34 AM

dr4stic · 05-29-2023, 02:54 AM

Good lord man... this is an INSANELY comprehensive list. Thank you, thank you so much!

I love the suggestion of working out my recalls before starting this. I know I have a few. I'll make sure to get those done before I really start poking the innards of my car.

The audio does look like it's gonna be a bear. The rest not so much.

I'm really hoping I'm gonna be creating something useful that can be shared. This was such a great model vehicle and I feel like it'd be nice to modernize the interfaces a bit.

Thanks again!

ctuna · 05-29-2023, 10:33 AM

Most people won't get into individual coding at the line level.
Only the technically oriented will attempt to change the code for
modifying options. Diagnostics are good idea to have for any car
now.

Also the Head unit can be updated to the newer EVO style
which has all the Internet Bells and whistles which is a known path.
See idrive subforum.

Nobody will want to do custom coding at this level .
Only the Engine Tuners get down that far.

there are known paths for the audio not so much for line level coding.
Audio modification of the Logic 7 system is convoluted and expensive
but it has been done before.
Logic 7
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1056432
https://www.bavlogic.com/?p=3729
https://www.bavlogic.com/?tag=loop
http://www.bmwlogicseven.com/?p=3837
http://www.bmwgm5.com/
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...5#post24455335
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...2&d=1260829447
http://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j&...slMu2A&cad=rjt
https://www.bmwgm5.com/Logic7_E90_91_92_93.htm
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=982666

http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1209780605
Most
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=727663
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347222
https://www.google.com/search?q=BMW+...VCkMqy2aCK09M:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...php?p=19256760
https://www.teacremotes.com/bmwgm5/
Diagnostic Manuals Inpa/Ista D
https://bimmerprofs.com/diagnostics-inpa-part-1/
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...7x8H3pN8h1fMuF
https://carmod.ru/files/icom/istad_en.pdf
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1681573
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-P-actually-do
primary links
https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/at...9&d=1539905743
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1681573
https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/at...1&d=1590283589
https://www.nathansbmwworkshop.com/b...or-dean-videos

05-27-2023, 03:29 PM	#1
dr4stic New Member 0 Rep 11 Posts Drives: E92 LCI 6MT Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: South Florida iTrader: (0)	Removing CIC completely, pitfalls, new project idea I've made a post before along these lines, but I believe at this point I've fleshed out my idea a bit and have a path forward. First, question: If I have a 2011 328i E92 w/ CIC and the Logic 7... what are the dangers (if any) of fully removing the CIC? Not inconveniences, I mean dangers... Near as I can tell the CIC provides Bluetooth (old and temperamental), Maps (also old and temperamental), CD & MP3 (uhhhh...) and then some car functions which I don't know if I can handle elsewhere: Tire pressure management Car error notifications Turning signal, lighting and other preferences In my situation am I right to assume the CIC is the MOST host controller? And therefore without it and a loopback in place, no audio will be sent to the amp? How much control can I exert by tapping into the CAN available to the CIC? From diagrams I've found, I believe I should be able to control a number of things with the KCAN bus that feeds into the CIC, including possibly the AC control. However I don't think I've found any comprehensive lists of the available protocols. I'm also thinking of secondarily tapping into the PT-CAN somewhere else in the car (if necessary). I'm starting a project where I'm looking to replace the CIC completely, as well as probably the Logic 7 since I'm guessing it'll be useless once the CIC is gone. I'd like to replace the AC controls as well as the connected buttons (PDC, rear shade, etc). My goal is to build out a system with a UI that replaces CIC functionality, adds some new functionality. I'm not gonna list out my lofty goals and plans at the moment. I need to manifest them first. I am just trying to make sure I'm not on track to do something particularly damaging to my vehicle. At the moment, I'm planning to do this: Remove CIC Remove A/C controls Turn the whole panel under the A/C vents into a long top down screen Hack one of the two android/linux CIC screen replacements I bought into a second screen for my replacement system for stuff like AA/CarPlay or system informational output Replace the Logic 7 with some sort of high quality aftermarket amp Am I crazy? Yes... I know I'm crazy. But, is this unreasonably impossible?
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05-27-2023, 10:54 PM	#2
ctuna Lieutenant General 1911 Rep 13,102 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	BMW may refuse to work on your car. The modules hanging of the Most Bust may cause errors on the Instrument cluster the SOS error is the most famous one. How are you going to account for the Display bump . If you put in a double din the display bump becomes a blank hole. There are a few Genius that figured out how to run two display's but I have only seen this once here. You can talk to the guys on the coding board but you are opening a can of worms. And it will cost you a lot . Replacing the logic 7 system is a can of worms as well. But that would be worth doing if you did it right. The head unit is the idrive and a lot of error messages from the car come through it.
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05-28-2023, 01:22 AM	#3
dr4stic New Member 0 Rep 11 Posts Drives: E92 LCI 6MT Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: South Florida iTrader: (0)	I'm not worried about using BMW for maintenance, I tend to frequent indie shops. I'm still in the experimental information gathering phase, so these are more cookie dough ideas than half baked ones. I'm also well aware the initial phase will be a 1-2 year venture. Other than the amplifier, I can't see that any modules from the MOST bus are necessary in 2023. Near as I can tell this is the COMBOX that came with my LCI model (I specifically scheduled my production for the month this became available), CD Changer which I don't have, the amp, and the "head unit" which in my case is the CIC. I'm honestly tempted to remove the MOST bus all together if I replace the CIC the way I'd like. The amp would get a more traditional connection than MOST if I replace it. At the moment I'm starting with a Pi board and a build of android automotive. Replacing the fascia and selecting a screen are secondary to building the initial interface, which will happen at my hobby desk. Modern Pi's support dual displays, so I'm thinking my display bump will eventually serve as a secondary display, with a mostly informational purpose to it. I'm looking for a list of errors that are typically displayed through the CIC, I'm sure I'll eventually amass and replicate the list of errors from the data on the CAN buses. I'm not worried about the worms... well, I'm a little worried about the worms, but I've resigned myself to them at this point. I'm a little worried about the cost as well, but I'm chalking that up to my professional development. Last edited by dr4stic; 05-28-2023 at 01:45 AM..
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05-29-2023, 02:54 AM	#5
dr4stic New Member 0 Rep 11 Posts Drives: E92 LCI 6MT Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: South Florida iTrader: (0)	Good lord man... this is an INSANELY comprehensive list. Thank you, thank you so much! I love the suggestion of working out my recalls before starting this. I know I have a few. I'll make sure to get those done before I really start poking the innards of my car. The audio does look like it's gonna be a bear. The rest not so much. I'm really hoping I'm gonna be creating something useful that can be shared. This was such a great model vehicle and I feel like it'd be nice to modernize the interfaces a bit. Thanks again!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-29-2023, 10:33 AM	#6
ctuna Lieutenant General 1911 Rep 13,102 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	Most people won't get into individual coding at the line level. Only the technically oriented will attempt to change the code for modifying options. Diagnostics are good idea to have for any car now. Also the Head unit can be updated to the newer EVO style which has all the Internet Bells and whistles which is a known path. See idrive subforum. Nobody will want to do custom coding at this level . Only the Engine Tuners get down that far. there are known paths for the audio not so much for line level coding. Audio modification of the Logic 7 system is convoluted and expensive but it has been done before. Logic 7 https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1056432 https://www.bavlogic.com/?p=3729 https://www.bavlogic.com/?tag=loop http://www.bmwlogicseven.com/?p=3837 http://www.bmwgm5.com/ https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...5#post24455335 http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...2&d=1260829447 http://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j&...slMu2A&cad=rjt https://www.bmwgm5.com/Logic7_E90_91_92_93.htm http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=982666 http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1209780605 Most http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=727663 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347222 https://www.google.com/search?q=BMW+...VCkMqy2aCK09M: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...php?p=19256760 https://www.teacremotes.com/bmwgm5/ Diagnostic Manuals Inpa/Ista D https://bimmerprofs.com/diagnostics-inpa-part-1/ https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...7x8H3pN8h1fMuF https://carmod.ru/files/icom/istad_en.pdf https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1681573 https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-P-actually-do primary links https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/at...9&d=1539905743 https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1681573 https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/at...1&d=1590283589 https://www.nathansbmwworkshop.com/b...or-dean-videos Last edited by ctuna; 05-29-2023 at 12:27 PM..
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