[EmanAkbarpour]

Hey guys, deciding on a tune from either StageFP or 22RPD. I hear good things about both. Just don't know which one would be best. I know most people go with StageFP. Anyone run 22RPD and see good results?

[Jros]

I had both, and can say both tunes are good.
Switched from StageFP to 22RPD after the former shop stopped answering and gave me horrible service over all.

Keep in mind i am not in the USA and my car has the 2.5 liters N52 engine, so YMMV concerning support

[jonwilli]

I have a StageFP tune, Bob has been good to me. They did have a run of very poor customer service but from the service I have had recently I think they have listened to the feedback and are trying hard to improve it.

I did consider switching to 22RPD but decided that I would stick with Bob as he has a well proven track record over years of tuning N52's. 22RPD are fairly new and a lot of the reviews I have read are not backed up by data. Not to say they aren't good but I think 'opinion' on social media has a lot of sway, it is not always based on hard evidence.

[MOD.Works]

At first I had a Stage FB n54 tune and then I bought a 3IM tune from 22rpd.

Both work well and I can't compare because the intake manifold and tune are different.
I think the 22RPD is a bit conservative with their 3im tune. I don't see any big differences with the standard 130i tune. I think I will request or buy a slightly more aggressive map from them.

[Jros]

I had 3SIM tunes from both shops, and i had your same impressions at first, but dragy times confirmed the tunes have about the same performance, at least for my application.

Maybe there is some difference in part throttle operation or accelerator response curve, as i still think StageFP tune was more "aggressive".

This could be confirmed by my gas mileage, that is much better with the 22RPD tune if i cruise a lot, but this may be far fetched

[MOD.Works]

I meant the timing, vanos and fuel maps of the 22rpd 3im tune.
There are no big differences with the standard e81 ​​130i maps. There is a bit more timing.
Throttle response is aggressive with pop and bang and a 7500rpm rev limiter.
I'm happy with this, it's maybe a bit faster than the standard 130i.
I would have to run a log and compare times, etc.

I think the timing could be a little more. Likewise, with exact optimization of the vanos, you would get a little more power. Camshaft timing determines the power of the intake manifold, headers and exhaust in use.
StageFB Bob told me that Vanos timing or its adjustment does not affect power.
I disagree.
I got good results with the intake Vanos adjustment on the M62tu engine. The engine was 4.6l and all bolt is mod and much more.

[Jros]

I agree about timing, it is key to performance as far as i know.

I can say in my logs at wot i had the same 27 degree ignition timing with both tunes from 5k rpm and up, using the same 95 ron fuel. i should compare that with stock timing for the 3sim 2.5 liter euro 325 tune.

i can't log the vanos position though to see mechanical timing, that would be interesting

an example from one of the pulls

[Jros]

on the side note, my StageFP tune ran at around 13.5 AFR at WOT, 22RPD ran around 12 AFR, had them set it at 13 because of excessive pop and bang

[MOD.Works]

The first picture is a stock 130i tune. The second picture is 22rpd. The third picture is for comparison, with which the car feels strong and pulled hard. Same setup in all images, 3im, headers, milvs, etc..

Vanos maps are identical above 5000rpm in all of them. Stock 130i and 22rpd look the same also from other log parameters...

AFR example approx. 5500rpm, 6000rpm, 6500rpm, 7200rpm:
Stock: 13.10, 12.95 12.70 **,**
22rpd: 12,75, 12.85, 12.60, 12.35
third picture tune: 12.20, 12.50, 12.35, 12.35

My timing drops a bit on all tunes after 5900rpm. It rises above 6700rpm.
I might have a bit of a problem with the oil temperature. I might go for an oil cooler next summer and see if that affects the timing as well.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by MOD.Works

The first picture is a stock 130i tune. The second picture is 22rpd. The third picture is for comparison, with which the car feels strong and pulled hard. Same setup in all images, 3im, headers, milvs, etc..

Vanos maps are identical above 5000rpm in all of them. Stock 130i and 22rpd look the same also from other log parameters...

AFR example approx. 5500rpm, 6000rpm, 6500rpm, 7200rpm:
Stock: 13.10, 12.95 12.70 **,**
22rpd: 12,75, 12.85, 12.60, 12.35
third picture tune: 12.20, 12.50, 12.35, 12.35

My timing drops a bit on all tunes after 5900rpm. It rises above 6700rpm.
I might have a bit of a problem with the oil temperature. I might go for an oil cooler next summer and see if that affects the timing as well.

What is the 3rd tune?

[MOD.Works]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

What is the 3rd tune?

StageFB N54 intake tune. But I also run it for 3IM.

[72GMC]

I might have a bit of a problem with the oil temperature. I might go for an oil cooler next summer and see if that affects the timing as well.[/QUOTE]

Can you be more specific about your oil temp issues?
I had oil temp issues this weekend. My first track day since installing 22rpd tune. 3SIM, MILVS, Catless headers.

Ambient temp was 28 Celsius
I was hitting 150C oil temp, which put the car into Component Protection mode, with some reduction to Engine output. Upshifiting and easing the pace slightly would drop the temp to 140C after half a lap, 130C after a full lap.

[MOD.Works]

Now I read your message. I realize that I have no problems with oil temperature.


I mean by the "problem", when I have a normal oil temperature of 110-120C. The timing drops a bit. When the engine oil temperature is below 100C, the timing does not drop that low.

[Igor.v_a]

I first contacted StageFP and was ready to buy their tune.
They answered once and disappeared, disgusting attitude towards the client.
I'm actually from a different continent than the US.
Contacted 22RPD.
The guys did a great job with my car.
N52B30 + ESS supercharger I use, only petrol 100 RON (euro).
Power measurement on the stand 327 hp and 377 Nm.
Yesterday I measured the dynamics, 100 - 200 14.1 sec.
Soon I will put water methanol and again I turn to 22 RPD.
They have a great relationship with customers.

[MOD.Works]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

What is the 3rd tune?

Originally Posted by MOD.Works

StageFB N54 intake tune. But I also run it for 3IM.

Comparison of 22RPD and StageFB using Logdyno app.
I have a little ethanol in the tank, I would say about E25 mix. I ran stagefb tune for a few days and I would believe that it was adapted.
It's a bit of a delusion that stagefb pulls harder for me. I get less below 5500rpm and it gives the impression that there is more power at high rpm, but the clock tells the truth.

I noticed now that stageFB was not working well. At low and medium rpm I get a little pinching and an uneven pull. I think it's because e25 mix and tune is intended for n54 intake. It worked fine on pump gas before.

I think if I had a StageFB 3im tune. I wouldn't see much difference between 22rpd and StageFB.




Edit. New comparison

I did a virtual dyno stock tune with 3IM and N54 intake with StageFb and 2RPD tune.
The 22RPD is slightly stronger at low and mid RPM. At high RPMs there is not much of a difference.
The car is an e81 130i and all wot pulls have been driven in the same place.

<-- click to enlarge

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by MOD.Works

Comparison of 22RPD and StageFB using Logdyno app.
I have a little ethanol in the tank, I would say about E25 mix. I ran stagefb tune for a few days and I would believe that it was adapted.
It's a bit of a delusion that stagefb pulls harder for me. I get less below 5500rpm and it gives the impression that there is more power at high rpm, but the clock tells the truth.

I noticed now that stageFB was not working well. At low and medium rpm I get a little pinching and an uneven pull. I think it's because e25 mix and tune is intended for n54 intake. It worked fine on pump gas before.

I think if I had a StageFB 3im tune. I wouldn't see much difference between 22rpd and StageFB.

Well, it clearly looks like the N54 tune is not optimized for the 3stage Manifold tune.

But any reason why there is such a large gain up top? DISA set point?

[MOD.Works]

Disa points are not close to the top. The 2nd Disa point is 4300rpm. The last Disa point is 6700rpm (stock and StageFB tune).
And the 22RPD tune it seems to be slightly higher, 6900rpm if I remember correctly.


I don't know exactly why the Stagefb has more gain at high revs. The MAF readings are also slightly higher, than 22rpd.
I need to find the old Logs to look at them too. Did this difference only come now when I drive e25 mix or did the Stagefb tune have more gain after 7000rpm than the 22rpd tune also with normal pump gas



I use a virtual dyno and just look for differences with my own experiments and mods. I think that next summer I will drive the real Dyno and its result is good to compare with the virtual Dyno app.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by MOD.Works

Disa points are not close to the top. The 2nd Disa point is 4300rpm. The last Disa point is 6700rpm (stock and StageFB tune).
And the 22RPD tune it seems to be slightly higher, 6900rpm if I remember correctly.


I don't know exactly why the Stagefb has more gain at high revs. The MAF readings are also slightly higher, than 22rpd.
I need to find the old Logs to look at them too. Did this difference only come now when I drive e25 mix or did the Stagefb tune have more gain after 7000rpm than the 22rpd tune also with normal pump gas



I use a virtual dyno and just look for differences with my own experiments and mods. I think that next summer I will drive the real Dyno and its result is good to compare with the virtual Dyno app.

well, it was originally my idea to change the DISA setpoint (I had mine at something high like 7500RPM or off completely) back in 2018. During that point, all the tuners were just tuning around it. Bob (stageFP) then changed it on my request and all his tunes for the 3SM should have it like that since.
I'm guessing it's not updated since it's not a 3SM tune your running.

But I'd be curious to see if there is any gain from E85 - Looking at peak power and timing, I doubt it.

[AmuroRay]

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=34

My post from 2018

[Raimund]

Here's my personal experience with both StageFP and 22RPD

I bought the StageFP tune first. It ran ok, but there was a lot of low end torque loss on the n54im which I had assumed was normal. I moved from Colorado to Arizona (lower altitude, more airflow) and the car started knocking on their tune and I could not get a revision from SFP even with calling/emailing for 6 months. So I reinstalled the 3sim and ran the bimmerlabs nomaf tune for awhile.

I saw a post on Facebook from 22RPD with a 275whp dyno sheet on an N52 with s54 headers, n54im, and 2.75" single exhaust so I reached out to them to remote tune my car.

I had had them tune my current setup with a 3sim, and then with an n54im. The low end torque was significantly improved on the n54im, feeling very similar to the 3si but with more power at the top end.

I became a vendor for 22RPD after speaking to the owner and being impressed at how much quicker the car was and his customer service. We now test different tunes and mods on my personal car. (Hopefully velocity stacks soon)

I set the NA E9X N52 1/4 mi record on dragy at NHRA sea level corrected 13.6 101.7mph with the RPD tune

The legend Biginboca (Love that guy) is in the #2 spot with a StageFP tune while being at 1300ft lower elevation and ~150lbs less.

I can understand any skeptism of my review as I am now a vendor for them, however I did pay for my tune and test it before becoming a vendor. There are also a lot of 22RPD reviews on the "BMW N52" group on Facebook.

Here is a 0-120mph clip of the 330i on the 22RPD tune
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAy741AhYzc

Tune I'm running on my car
https://bavautoparts.com/products/22...0-stage-2-tune

[Raimund]

Originally Posted by MOD.Works

At first I had a Stage FB n54 tune and then I bought a 3IM tune from 22rpd.

Both work well and I can't compare because the intake manifold and tune are different.
I think the 22RPD is a bit conservative with their 3im tune. I don't see any big differences with the standard 130i tune. I think I will request or buy a slightly more aggressive map from them.

Hey Mod Works,
If you have a way to datalog (protool, testo, etc), 22RPD is always happy to look them over and modify the tune to your specific car to get the most out of it. A revision is included with your purchase.

Since you are pulling some timing at high rpm, you may benefit from an 30% Ethanol tune, assuming your fuel is the limiting factor here. You will need to log your injectors on Testo though to verify you have enough headroom on your stock injectors. Some can do it and some cannot. E20 is almost always fine, but more knock resistance on E30 of course.

[MOD.Works]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

well, it was originally my idea to change the DISA setpoint (I had mine at something high like 7500RPM or off completely) back in 2018. During that point, all the tuners were just tuning around it. Bob (stageFP) then changed it on my request and all his tunes for the 3SM should have it like that since.
I'm guessing it's not updated since it's not a 3SM tune your running.

But I'd be curious to see if there is any gain from E85 - Looking at peak power and timing, I doubt it.

Bob didn't remember to remove the Disa valves on the first version of my N54 intake tune. So the Disa setpoints are the same as the stock 130i tune. I use that version when I run a 3stage intake.
2nd version my N54 tune is not Disat enabled and I only drive it with N54 intake.
As you can see Disa has the same points as stock.






I already noticed the stock 130i tune MAF readings drop after the last Disa setting point. But this was not a problem for me because the limiter was 7000rpm. I think that's why the Disa set point is close to it, it's a kind of soft limiter along with other parameters.
Stock 130i tune and no engine mods.