[Brian86]

The auto vs. manual debate is a great witch test.

Always manages to flush out a few heretics :P

[MPOWER5266]

Honestly not sure about how long my wagon is going to be around. Its too small to haul my twins around in rear facing seats so we always have to take my wife's tahoe. I imagine when the kids get a little bigger it will be ok with booster seats, but I may have to get something larger when they start sports. I would sell it right now if I could get an F11 in the states, I would love a slightly larger wagon. I could also see myself getting a diesel X5 of a Raptor at some point for a daily.

[PourBoi-Jay]

Absolutely nothing wrong with a good automatic transmission. I’d take a PDK or a good DCT any day. There still plenty of good fun to be had behind the wheel of a good car with paddle shifters.

The bigger thing for me is electric steering vs. hydraulic. The industry has made good progress there, but I can’t take some of the numbness found in most newer cars

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by krhodes1

BTW - all y'all singing the praises of the 3-series as a driver's car REALLY need to take an e8x 1-series for a spin. Takes the fun aspects of the e9x and cranks them up to *11*. Shorter, lighter, friskier, same motors (same almost everything, just in a tighter package). Not as practical but even more fun, and the real re-incarnation of the e30 far more than the e9x is, given the e30 had a fairly useless back seat as well. I find the e9x is more the spiritual successor to my e28s more than my e30s.

I like my convertible 128i so much I am looking for a coupe to go with it. But I will *never* part with my wagon. First love and all that. As I said before, I plan to be the first and last owner of that car. They can bury me in it.

My $.04. (inflation)

The 1-Series of that generation is basically an E9X, the front end from the windshield forward is E9X.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by PourBoi-Jay

Absolutely nothing wrong with a good automatic transmission. I’d take a PDK or a good DCT any day. There still plenty of good fun to be had behind the wheel of a good car with paddle shifters.

The bigger thing for me is electric steering vs. hydraulic. The industry has made good progress there, but I can’t take some of the numbness found in most newer cars

But if you have to use paddle shifters to shift it, why not just use your left foot? That's the part I don't get. It's still a compromise from a true 3-peadal machine. With a true manual, you always have instant access to neutral.

[E93Dude]

Auto vs. manual….

Sometimes I want to feel connected to the car, so I drive the stick. Sometimes I'm lazy (or, as was recently the case, broke my right ankle) so drive the automatic. Fundamentally its a subjective debate, and no point in trying to change anyone's mind. I have both, so I don't have to choose….

[Serf27]

Ooo, this thread derailed.

Auto in my 335i for go fast purposes.
Manual in my e91 does make it a lot more fun to drive.
Each one has their advantages.

I can also control when my car shifts with the paddles. I can control it faster than the manual transmission.

I have the same amount of access to neutral in either car.

Those of you liking the way you feel connected with the car, look into upgrading the shifter.
A friend installed a different shifter in his MT and it changed the feeling of shifting 100%. Instant mechanical feel. Not sure what it was called.

[mrjimyjohn]

I’ve been driving my e92 for just a few months now and I like it more every time I drive it. I think I want to keep it until I start having to deal with body rust. No idea how far out that is, we use a lot of salt in my city…

[3PedalJake]

Too much emphasis on the shifter here. BMW isn't even the best shifter out there as a MT, it's OK but not the best. The magic is in the clutch, that's your personal interface between the engine and the road and the sadly lacking part on even the best DCT manumatic.

When I don't want to shift I have my wife drive me in her Hyundai, if you're not really driving it's better to just be a passenger.

[Cpet]

Have read along with this thread but haven't posted yet. As basically everyone has said, there aren't any good replacements for the e90. At just over 60k, mine has a ton of life left, so won't be parting with it anytime soon.

When I find one in the perfect spec and condition, I will buy a 5 series as a second car. Either an e39 530i sport or an e60 535i sport like my dad had years ago. Two very different cars, but would be happy with either.

[Fiasco]

How long I keep it is going to depend on how it treats me. If she accepts her preventative maintenance and behaves and operates like the great example she is, then i'll likely never sell her, however if she doesn't I can cut her loose no problem. Really hoping for the former outcome.

As for automatic vs manual, I respect automatic transmissions for what they are and what they allow people to do. If automatic transmissions didn't exist, my girlfriend would have a much harder time going out and getting groceries in her Hyundai Santa Fe. Automatics also make it possible to keep your eyes and hands off the road a little more to take pictures of your fresh manicure for Instagram, or say do your eye makeup in the vanity mirror. So ya, they are great for people interested in things like that.

For drivers however, people concerned with enjoying driving, the manual transmission is the obvious choice. I am convinced that anyone that calls themselves an enthusiast and would rather drive an auto over a manual simply does not know how to drive a manual, or sucks at it. Crappy slow shifts that lunge the whole car around, rev matching nowhere to be found, learned how to drive manual from a YouTube video etc.

No disrespect to fans of auto's, but I suggest brushing up on your manual driving skills, it really is fun when you know what you're doing.

[3PedalJake]

Originally Posted by PourBoi-Jay

Absolutely nothing wrong with a good automatic transmission. I’d take a PDK or a good DCT any day. There still plenty of good fun to be had behind the wheel of a good car with paddle shifters.

The bigger thing for me is electric steering vs. hydraulic. The industry has made good progress there, but I can’t take some of the numbness found in most newer cars

Was that a Seinfeld accent when you said "nothing wrooong with that"?

Haptic feedback improvement in cars is downstream from video games, that pretty well sums up the driving experience with steer by wire.

[3PedalJake]

Originally Posted by Fiasco

How long I keep it is going to depend on how it treats me. If she accepts her preventative maintenance and behaves and operates like the great example she is, then i'll likely never sell her, however if she doesn't I can cut her loose no problem. Really hoping for the former outcome.

As for automatic vs manual, I respect automatic transmissions for what they are and what they allow people to do. If automatic transmissions didn't exist, my girlfriend would have a much harder time going out and getting groceries in her Hyundai Santa Fe. Automatics also make it possible to keep your eyes and hands off the road a little more to take pictures of your fresh manicure for Instagram, or say do your eye makeup in the vanity mirror. So ya, they are great for people interested in things like that.

For drivers however, people concerned with enjoying driving, the manual transmission is the obvious choice. I am convinced that anyone that calls themselves an enthusiast and would rather drive an auto over a manual simply does not know how to drive a manual, or sucks at it. Crappy slow shifts that lunge the whole car around, rev matching nowhere to be found, learned how to drive manual from a YouTube video etc.

No disrespect to fans of auto's, but I suggest brushing up on your manual driving skills, it really is fun when you know what you're doing.

This guy gets it

[Hoody007]

Planning on keeping it for a long time. Only thing which could replace it from a daily driving perspective would be a 997.2, and I’m about 10 years out from comfortably affording one.
The ZF 6-speed auto is amazing, really. Shifts are crisp and smooth. It’s also very nice in stop-and-go traffic (which happens all too often in ATL).

My only experience with a BMW manual is in my 850i. Not sure how that compares to the unit fitted to the E9x. I find it a bit notchy, and the throws a bit too long.

I’d rather spend the money to maintain the N54 (which hasn’t been bad, honestly, just one failed injector and a routine walnut blast in my ~60K miles of ownership from 80-> 140K) rather than payments on some awful F30. Not too mention that it would cost thousands to replicate the work on my car - has M3 control arms, new tie rods, and Bilstein monotube shocks.

If it’s totaled, then I’d replace it with a 986/987 Boxster or a 128i/135i. Maybe a sport-pack E39 530i if I could even find one.
It’s getting harder to find a well-maintained, well-equipped E90 these days...

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by 3PedalJake

Was that a Seinfeld accent when you said "nothing wrooong with that"?

Haptic feedback improvement in cars is downstream from video games, that pretty well sums up the driving experience with steer by wire.

The electric steering in our X3 is awful. It's actually exhausting to drive for longer than 30 minutes. There's this sort of digital "dead spot" in the center, where the wheel moves in obvious steps. This makes small corrections impossible to do smoothly, because the wheel does nothing for a tenth of a degree, and then suddenly it moves further than you wanted it to. Almost like there's just not enough digital resolution at the center.

[owdi]

1 or 2 years. Need to buy a new home with bigger garage, so I can park the replacement inside.

I have 71k miles on my 2010 E90 and the seeping oil pan really bugs me. Would be nice to have native bluetooth as well.

My car is not fast, but RWD MT with 18" M rims and Pilot Sport 4s summer tires sure makes cornering fun.

[eljay]

If I could get a manual F31 with B58 engine, I would be tempted.

Someone should make me an offer I can't refuse on my manual E91 and send me into a frantic research on how to swap a manual B58 drivetrain into an F31! haha

[ryan stewart]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Like hand-crank starters? Really? Bit of a stretch there.

The only thing missing from an automatic transmission, regardless of how well it shifts and how efficient it is, it still doesn't know when the driver wants to change gears. If find any automatic not knowing when I want to shift as highly inconvenient.

But that's me.

Have you run a modern DTC with manual control? Nobody is rowing or clutching more effectively.

[ryan stewart]

Originally Posted by tcphoto

Why all the talk about "nobody wants to row through gears"? My E92 is manual and I love it, I may be a dying breed but let's not speak in such broad terms. Hell, we can beat the dead horse talking about the time bomb in the cooling systems or paper thin gaskets in all the BMW engines but enthusiasts should respect the manual transmission.

Not meant in absolute, meant in the context of living in reality. They are dying because people arent buying them, and its not millennials buying all the new cars. And even those with manual controls, especially on the higher end, are moving away from having a 3rd pedal.

Hell, go into the dealership and ask for a 3rd pedal in the new M4 Comp. Think the youths are the reason BMW isn't offering it in an $80k sports coupe?

I get the appeal, this E91 is the first auto since a 67 LeMans. The main reason I got rid of the E30 are the motorcycles (which are all manuals, although with quickshifters).

[ryan stewart]

Originally Posted by owdi

1 or 2 years. Need to buy a new home with bigger garage, so I can park the replacement inside.

I have 71k miles on my 2010 E90 and the seeping oil pan really bugs me. Would be nice to have native bluetooth as well.

My car is not fast, but RWD MT with 18" M rims and Pilot Sport 4s summer tires sure makes cornering fun.

Get one of those ebay MOST bluetooth clones. I've been running one forever in my car and it works great. Even puts the song on the radio screen (although the phone is in front of that on a mount in my car).

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by ryan stewart

Have you run a modern DTC with manual control? Nobody is rowing or clutching more effectively.

what is the point of an automatic if you have to shift it to get it to do what you want?

using a clutch pedal is just not that difficult. I don't really get the obsession with .001 second shift times either - it's not like it matters at all on the street. Even if you track your car, unless you are exceptionally skilled, it's not going to make any difference there either.

[S4NoMore]

It took years to find my unicorn spec E90, and I intended to keep it until used Tesla M3s dip below $30k - a few more years I imagine. But I'm second guessing it, I may need to dump the N55 for a B58 or perhaps an S65 to get me through a few more years daily driving an ICE car. The oil supply system leaves me feeling very vulnerable to a catastrophic failure - in the bottom end, and in the top end to boot - and while an N52 or an S65 might warrant an engine replacement, with the N55 a replacement will still be vulnerable. There are bandaids that might help, but then I'm just adding complication and cost to a depreciating liability. I am a diehard BMW guy but dang, these engines are just so high-strung and on the edge of reliability anymore.
A screen and a quality UI don't add to the driving experience, but they do add to the overall experience. CIC iDrive, in my opinion, really does a lot to keep an E90 relevant and modern - plenty responsive, enough resolution, and the 8-button multi-use presets with touch-sensing on-screen preview were a brilliant innovation that I still see praised in reviews of new BMWs, going on 10 years later! Still, I do look forward to a HUD in an F30 which actually does add to the driving experience.
I'm also a diehard 3-pedal guy, but the advent of the 8-speed ZF transmission and my aging knees has me thinking I'd be okay with daily driving an auto.