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      10-05-2018, 12:19 AM   #1
Jacobharris
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Lowering e92 328i xdrive, help with options?

So I'm looking to lower my 2009 328i xdrive coupe. Not absolutely slam it by any means but basically just eliminate the front wheel gap.

I'm considering the lowering springs from Eibach.

My main concern is that in all of the threads I've read, about half of the people say that new shocks would be absolutely necessary. And the other half say that stock shocks will do.

My stock shocks have about 90k on them but seem to be in good shape.

So basically, has anyone out there ran lowering springs on stock shocks for an extended amount of time? How long have they held up if so? Could I run the springs on my current shocks? Should I just get aftermarket shocks? If so, what're some of my options?

I'm a college student so I'm not exactly rolling in dough. I was planning on spending roughly $500.

Let me know if you have any helpful advice! Open to all ideas not necessarily just the Eibach springs!
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      10-05-2018, 12:23 AM   #2
ctuna
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There is an x drive sub forum here.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16

https://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=197

Also a suspension sub forum.

this sounds like a couple of thousand in parts alone.
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      10-05-2018, 06:52 AM   #3
floydarogers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobharris View Post
...
My main concern is that in all of the threads I've read, about half of the people say that new shocks would be absolutely necessary. And the other half say that stock shocks will do.

My stock shocks have about 90k on them but seem to be in good shape.
...
It's not a matter of miles, it's the actual shock design. The standard xDrive shocks are longer than the non-xDrive shocks: the valving is in a different location. When you run xDrive shocks with lowering springs, the valves are no longer in the correct location to perform their function. You can indeed do so, but your rid will be crap due to the non-performance of the taller shocks.

That is why most people lowering their xDrive cars use coil-overs.
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      10-05-2018, 11:53 AM   #4
.RJ
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shock valves are not position sensitive.
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      10-05-2018, 05:28 PM   #5
floydarogers
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Originally Posted by .RJ View Post
shock valves are not position sensitive.
I'm afraid you're wrong, in this case. It's quite clear from numerous articles, from far more authoritative sources than me that that's the case with the xDrive suspension vis-a-vis the regular/sport suspensions.
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      10-06-2018, 07:16 AM   #6
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Lowering with springs was a miserable experience for me. Perhaps it was the condition of the roads in my area but the vehicle became a lot less fun to drive. The suspension would bottom frequently, loudly and with spine-jarring thumps.

I solved this issue with the purchase of KW V1 coilovers, which not only allowed modest lowering but provided a ride that was both more controlled and more comfortable than the stock setup. You will find my experience was not unusual if you read the forums extensively on this subject.

I understand you budget is limited but I think you'll be happier and save money in the long run by spending more up front - unless your goal is prinicipally about how the car looks. I shopped around and paid about $1200 for my set (~5 years ago so current prices might be higher).
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      10-08-2018, 08:52 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
I'm afraid you're wrong, in this case. It's quite clear from numerous articles, from far more authoritative sources than me that that's the case with the xDrive suspension vis-a-vis the regular/sport suspensions.
xDrive cars will ride like crap when lowered because there's not enough suspension travel and the stock shocks dont have enough rebound control - you'll be in the bump stops pretty quickly on both ends. Ideally you'd end up with shocks that have a shorter shock/strut body to gain some bump travel back - its really surprising how little travel these cars have before you get into the stops. At least the stops are progressive so its a soft landing.

But, shocks work by forcing fluid through various orifices - they work on the velocity of the shaft movement - the position of the shaft and its valves has no influence on the velocity and damping.



Might want to learn a bit more about how they work
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      10-08-2018, 02:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .RJ View Post
...
But, shocks work by forcing fluid through various orifices - they work on the velocity of the shaft movement - the position of the shaft and its valves has no influence on the velocity and damping.
Compressing a shock beyond the point where one or move of the valves is never un-covered by the rebound or compression certainly affects things. I could draw a picture, but pretty sure you wouldn't accept it.
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      10-08-2018, 03:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpaul View Post
Lowering with springs was a miserable experience for me. Perhaps it was the condition of the roads in my area but the vehicle became a lot less fun to drive. The suspension would bottom frequently, loudly and with spine-jarring thumps.

I solved this issue with the purchase of KW V1 coilovers, which not only allowed modest lowering but provided a ride that was both more controlled and more comfortable than the stock setup. You will find my experience was not unusual if you read the forums extensively on this subject.

I understand you budget is limited but I think you'll be happier and save money in the long run by spending more up front - unless your goal is prinicipally about how the car looks. I shopped around and paid about $1200 for my set (~5 years ago so current prices might be higher).
So I'm assuming your vehicle is an xdrive, correct? e92?

My knowledge on coilovers isn't too great. I'm still learning. Would the installation of coilovers require any other parts? Or is it as simple as get a set of coilovers and slap them on?

That being said, what would my options be?

Keep in mind this is going on a 328i DD, it doesn't see the track, never has &never will. So I'm not exactly worried about extreme performance or adjustability. If I can maintain the quality of the stock ride- I'm happy. That's why I was leaning more towards the lowering spring/ shock combo.
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      10-08-2018, 03:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobharris View Post
...
My main concern is that in all of the threads I've read, about half of the people say that new shocks would be absolutely necessary. And the other half say that stock shocks will do.

My stock shocks have about 90k on them but seem to be in good shape.
...
It's not a matter of miles, it's the actual shock design. The standard xDrive shocks are longer than the non-xDrive shocks: the valving is in a different location. When you run xDrive shocks with lowering springs, the valves are no longer in the correct location to perform their function. You can indeed do so, but your rid will be crap due to the non-performance of the taller shocks.

That is why most people lowering their xDrive cars use coil-overs.
Okay. Makes sense. Thank you for clarifying! Made that much easier than scrolling through hundreds of threads a day!

So, from what I gather, it's still completely doable to lower an xdrive vehicle with springs, but aftermarket shocks would be ideal?

What are my options? I've heard koni yellow, blisten b6, blisten b8? Are any of these feasible?
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      10-09-2018, 05:24 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobharris View Post
So I'm assuming your vehicle is an xdrive, correct? e92?

My knowledge on coilovers isn't too great. I'm still learning. Would the installation of coilovers require any other parts? Or is it as simple as get a set of coilovers and slap them on?

That being said, what would my options be?

Keep in mind this is going on a 328i DD, it doesn't see the track, never has &never will. So I'm not exactly worried about extreme performance or adjustability. If I can maintain the quality of the stock ride- I'm happy. That's why I was leaning more towards the lowering spring/ shock combo.
xDrive E90. This vehicle is driven strictly on the street - it's my daily driver. People often say that the changes they implement make "night and day" differences, which is not usually plausible. But for me, going from OEM to coilover was indeed a night and day difference. The ride is improved in every way. It is actually more comfortable. Plus I got the mild lowering to eliminate wheel gap that I desired. I should add that I tried a cheaper coilover before going to the KWs. Don't do it - I believe that most are sprung much too stiffly and damped much too heavily for street use. Or possibly they are just pieces of shit.

Coilover installation does not necessarily require any additional parts but replacement of the guide support (#1 in linked drawing) is often performed ($35-$60 for OE part, $120 for BMW part). It has some rubber and a bearing in it that can wear over time.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=31_0716

I did my own installation which is not much more involved for the coilover than for the lowering springs. A somewhat special socket for the self-locking nut is a good idea so you can get an allen wrench in there while you tighten. An impact wrench can substitute for the special socket but is not recommended - it's very easy to overdo it and break threaded part of the strut off. This is what the socket looks like (although I cannot remember if 21,22 or 24mm is the correct size):

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwaben...xoC8HYQAvD_BwE

A spring compressor is necessary and the kind you rent from AutoZone does not fit very well on the BMW spring due to it's conical shape. I did make it work first time I replaced things but it was a struggle. I bought a decent ebay tool to do the job for subsequent work.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MacPherson-...-/321202568345

If the struts have been in there a long time, it can be difficult to remove the lower body from the wheel carrier. This tool made the job easier:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwaben...BoCls0QAvD_BwE

Some DIYs describe removing the spring without removing the shock body from the wheel carrier. I found that very difficult to do and gave up trying - I removed the entire strut from the car before taking off the guide support and releasing the spring

Good luck

Last edited by dpaul; 10-09-2018 at 05:31 AM.
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      10-09-2018, 07:20 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
Compressing a shock beyond the point where one or move of the valves is never un-covered by the rebound or compression certainly affects things. I could draw a picture, but pretty sure you wouldn't accept it.
Is BMW doing something odd with their shocks that causes and air lock or something in the damper? I'd be curious if the internal design was something unique and created issues other than the usual caveat of lowering a heavy, travel limited car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpaul View Post
xDrive E90. This vehicle is driven strictly on the street - it's my daily driver. People often say that the changes they implement make "night and day" differences, which is not usually plausible. But for me, going from OEM to coilover was indeed a night and day difference.
I'll echo those same statements, it really is night and day and really amazing how poor the stock xDrive suspension is. I waffled a long time on what to buy but I'm glad I went with the KW's.
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      10-09-2018, 09:51 PM   #13
floydarogers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .RJ View Post
Is BMW doing something odd with their shocks that causes and air lock or something in the damper? I'd be curious if the internal design was something unique and created issues other than the usual caveat of lowering a heavy, travel limited car.
I was thinking of some unique and interesting shock designs. Look at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_...sitive_damping
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...s-work-feature
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...orbers-feature

Something like the position-sensitive design in the wikipedia entry.
But then I don't really know what type of shocks that BMW uses - probably the simplest since they're really into cost-cutting and "cheap".
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      10-10-2018, 06:54 AM   #14
.RJ
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Has anyone cut one open?

I have the stock ones that came out of my car.... was thinking of throwing them away but I'd dig into them for science.
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      10-29-2018, 12:34 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
Compressing a shock beyond the point where one or move of the valves is never un-covered by the rebound or compression certainly affects things. I could draw a picture, but pretty sure you wouldn't accept it.
Please, draw the picture
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      10-29-2018, 06:39 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by ckanderson View Post
Please, draw the picture
I don't need to - look at the pic in link #1 of my last post.
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      10-29-2018, 06:42 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckanderson View Post
Please, draw the picture
I don't need to - look at the pic in link #1 of my last post.
And we are confident our shocks have PSD?

Not being rude I've just never heard a conclusive answer
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