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      07-10-2020, 02:34 PM   #265
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Another minor update...

Last month I upgraded to a Anitgravity lithium battery. It’s been amazing! Cranks stronger than my oem battery ever did, has a built in jump start from a button press on its own key fob, and weighs about 13lbs. Every day it sends me a notification on my phone showing the state of charge. Not that I need my battery texting me but it’s kind of cool lol. The price was steep but I have no regrets on this purchase, and they are supposed t last up to 10 years so I figured I can always swap it to another car if I ever decide to let the 328csl go, which is very doubtful.

Also placed the order for my new front buckets yesterday. Seats are a deep deep rabbit hole and I went in many circles trying not to spend a lot of money but saving enough weight to make it a worthwhile upgrade. In the end I kept coming back to one single option that made sense...





The Recaro Pole Position but not the US version, the ABE version only sold in Europe. The ABE is designed to work with OEM 3 point belts and seeing as how I’m giving up the side airbag in the seat I didn’t want to compromise any more on safety. (And I didn’t want to have to run harnesses to feel safe in my daily.). It also is designed to be a little larger than the standard pole position and fit a more “American” body type Lastly, these are supposed to be the same seats BMW chose for their OEM seats in the E92M3 GTS. So if it was good enough for BMW then it works for my build.



The Pole Positions weigh 15.4lbs and with the mounts I’m doing should come in around 25lbs total. The seats I have now, manual sport seats weigh 54-57lbs depending on which post you read on this forum. So should be around a 60lbs weight savings once they are installed. I’m planning on maybe doing a rear seat delete next year once COVID ends we are planning on adding another SUV to the stable and then I can commit to a 2 seat set up for this car.

I’m hoping with the Recaros and the rear seat delete (-65lbs) the 328csl will be well under 3000lbs.
This is exactly where I wanted this to go and you did it. I can't even imagine how fun it will be to drive this thing when these seats are in. Did you consider the corbeau fx1? Would be interested to hear your thoughts.
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      07-10-2020, 04:34 PM   #266
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This is exactly where I wanted this to go and you did it. I can't even imagine how fun it will be to drive this thing when these seats are in. Did you consider the corbeau fx1? Would be interested to hear your thoughts.
I did look at them. Plus Sparco Evo and a bunch of other ones. In the end a few things sold me on the pole position.

They are the lightest seats I could find that weren’t carbon and hella expensive. (Not that these were cheap they were $2k shipped from Germany)

They were universally praised as comfortable from guys 5’6” to 6’4”. And weights from 160lbs to 230lbs.

They integrated with the pyrotechnic charge in the seat belt buckle properly to allow that function to work as per oem spec. They are the only bucket seat I found that did this, and only for the pole position “ABE” which isn’t sold in the US. I believe this is the single reason they were chosen by BMW for the GTS. This was extremely important to me since I’ll be deleting and coding out side airbags in the oem seats I felt I cannot compromise on safety any further. In the end this made them the only acceptable choice. If I was going to run harnesses then there were other options and I maybe would have gone for the Sparco Evo II.

I’m very much looking forward to putting these seats in! I think it will feel like wearing the car rather than sitting in it. I can’t wait!
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      07-11-2020, 09:05 AM   #267
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I got Recaro Sportster CS's with integral side airbags. The seat belt pre-tensioners were compatible and fitted. But Pole Positions look great in a racer; the Sportsters are more of a DD option, which is what I needed...
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      07-11-2020, 09:42 AM   #268
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I got Recaro Sportster CS's with integral side airbags. The seat belt pre-tensioners were compatible and fitted. But Pole Positions look great in a racer; the Sportsters are more of a DD option, which is what I needed...
Sportsters are great! Those are the same as the bmw performance seats. I looked closely at those too. I decided against them because they only saved about 15lbs/seat over my current manual sport seats and cost about $4k for a pair.

I’m really counting every pound on this build trying to maximize the low horsepower N52 have, and paying twice the price for half the weight loss made it a less attractive option.

That said, I believe Sportster CS are truly the best seat you can get for our cars if you aren’t counting every pound!
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      07-13-2020, 01:21 PM   #269
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I did look at them. Plus Sparco Evo and a bunch of other ones. In the end a few things sold me on the pole position.

They are the lightest seats I could find that weren’t carbon and hella expensive. (Not that these were cheap they were $2k shipped from Germany)

They were universally praised as comfortable from guys 5’6” to 6’4”. And weights from 160lbs to 230lbs.

They integrated with the pyrotechnic charge in the seat belt buckle properly to allow that function to work as per oem spec. They are the only bucket seat I found that did this, and only for the pole position “ABE” which isn’t sold in the US. I believe this is the single reason they were chosen by BMW for the GTS. This was extremely important to me since I’ll be deleting and coding out side airbags in the oem seats I felt I cannot compromise on safety any further. In the end this made them the only acceptable choice. If I was going to run harnesses then there were other options and I maybe would have gone for the Sparco Evo II.

I’m very much looking forward to putting these seats in! I think it will feel like wearing the car rather than sitting in it. I can’t wait!
I wasn't aware of the pyrotechnic charge in the buckle. Can you share more about that, or links I could read?
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      07-13-2020, 01:27 PM   #270
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I wasn't aware of the pyrotechnic charge in the buckle. Can you share more about that, or links I could read?
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      07-14-2020, 08:56 PM   #271
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Love eBay for this stuff. I think mine was $100+ and had to come all the way across the country. You really scored! That looks pretty clean even.
tlow98 How did you install these nutserts? I just got them in the mail today and am planning on tackling the chassis plate install this weekend. I have a Rivnut tool but these things are huge. I’m not sure my tool will smash these giant nutserts lol



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      07-15-2020, 10:29 AM   #272
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tlow98 How did you install these nutserts? I just got them in the mail today and am planning on tackling the chassis plate install this weekend. I have a Rivnut tool but these things are huge. I’m not sure my tool will smash these giant nutserts lol

Biginboca I think freedomfries did similar mod on his car. He might be able to provide some insights as well.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1616729
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      07-15-2020, 10:38 AM   #273
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tlow98 How did you install these nutserts? I just got them in the mail today and am planning on tackling the chassis plate install this weekend. I have a Rivnut tool but these things are huge. I’m not sure my tool will smash these giant nutserts lol



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Biginboca I think freedomfries did similar mod on his car. He might be able to provide some insights as well.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1616729

Buy a big-ass M10 (or are the M12) piece of threaded rod. Put three nuts on and crank that bad boy down until it crushes. Two nuts lock out at the end of the threaded rod and the other applies the force. I also bought some hardened washers to distribute the load (greasing these really helped). It won't take quite as much force as it looks like, but I greased the threaded rod to ensure smoother operation.

You won't need a hardened threaded rod either. Ge the strongest grade they have at Ace and grease it up - will be fine.

I wouldn't use that tool you have.

Here is what you're trying to do, just on a larger scale:


And yes, this is what freedomfries figured out. Huge help!
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      07-15-2020, 10:41 AM   #274
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Buy a big-ass M10 (or are the M12) piece of threaded rod. Put three nuts on and crank that bad boy down until it crushes. Two nuts lock out at the end of the threaded rod and the other applies the force. I also bought some hardened washers to distribute the load (greasing these really helped). It won't take quite as much force as it looks like, but I greased the threaded rod to ensure smoother operation.

You won't need a hardened threaded rod either. Ge the strongest grade they have at Ace and grease it up - will be fine.

I wouldn't use that tool you have.

Here is what you're trying to do, just on a larger scale:


And yes, this is what freedomfries figured out. Huge help!
Awesome, thanks. I actually ordered this tool on amazon this morning. Pretty much what you described...

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      07-15-2020, 03:06 PM   #275
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Thanks. I didn't even know our belts did that. You're right, I wouldn't want to lose this function. Now that I recall when I swapped my interior I had to install the buckles and I recall fitting it into the harness connector. It might still be possible to hook this into the harness with the seats removed.
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      07-17-2020, 04:24 PM   #276
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Chassis brace install completed today. Thank you to freedomfries and tlow98 for doing all the legwork and paving the way for this mod. Following in their footsteps this took me about 3 hours from taking out the jack to finished cleaning up. It probably would have been an all day project without them paving the way!

For this install you will need 3 items:

Chassis Brace p/n 31102283032
4 x M10 Rivnuts p/n 07147199279
4 x 16mm M10 Bolts p/n 33326768354

This is the chassis brace you will be purchasing. To start you are going to drill out the 2 rivets holding the plastic jack pad and remove the pad.



Then you need to cut down the brace. Cut the back half of the brace off behind the middle screws. Try to leave as much material as possible in the flat center section before that rear wards hump starts.



You should have something like this



Now go under your car. Remove your under paneling, just the the 2 16mm bolts that hold the front of V brace to the subframe, and then install the 4 nutserts into the subframe at the outermost hex shaped openings. If you hold the cut chassis brace you made earlier up to the chassis you’ll see exactly where the 4 nutserts go. You’ll also need to permanently remove these 2 panel supports that sit in front of the steering rack



Loosely install brace with a couple bolts and trace the V Brace lines with a long ruler over it to mark the triangle cut out. This will show you where you need to remove the triangle section.



Also while you have the brace there and are marking it, mark the second hole you need to drill for the second V brace bolt to pass through. The drivers side bolt has no hole on the brace as it comes. (You could also do this after you cut the triangle.)

Come out from under the car and cut the triangle, and then flip the brace over and using a BFH lay the brace on a brick or paver and hammer the dimple out which is surrounding the hole the sharpie is pointing to. This whole section needs to be flat to fit under the existing metal V brace. You can see I already hammered it flat and marked that second hole you need to drill for the V brace in this pic



Pretty much done now! Go back under the car and using a flat implement (flathead screwdriver, pry bar, etc) pry the V Brace center section downwards from the subframe and slide chassis brace between it and subframe for final install. Install the 4 x 16mm bolts into the nutserts you installed and the 2 16mm V Brace bolts.



All done! Install your paneling over it and no one will ever know it’s there!

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      07-17-2020, 07:13 PM   #277
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Expert execution!

Pro tip: if you have a slight rattle while at idle and stopped it's the power steering line bracket on the passenger side. You can bend it by hand a 1/4" up and no more rattling!
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      07-17-2020, 07:17 PM   #278
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Expert execution!

Pro tip: if you have a slight rattle while at ideal and stopped it's the power steering line bracket. You can bend it by hand a 1/4" up and no more rattling!
I haven’t driven it yet, but because you had mentioned this in your text I already bent it up... so it should be good...
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      07-18-2020, 02:53 AM   #279
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Great guide! Driving impressions please...
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      07-18-2020, 09:49 AM   #280
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Great guide! Driving impressions please...
It started raining here after I finished the install yesterday and it hasn’t stopped raining yet. I’ll update once the roads are dry and I can push the car to see how it feels
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      07-18-2020, 11:26 AM   #281
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It started raining here after I finished the install yesterday and it hasn’t stopped raining yet. I’ll update once the roads are dry and I can push the car to see how it feels
I am looking forward to your impression.
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      07-18-2020, 04:48 PM   #282
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It finally stopped raining and the roads dried up here so just took a short ride to check out the results of the chassis plate. It really makes a difference I can feel and I was not expecting this to be as noticeable as it is!

I noticed it right away when I pulled out of my driveway and drove down my street just like I do every day on the same bumps and imperfections. The chassis definitely feels more solid on these little bumps and it adds a little more of that go kart feel to the steering. I really didn’t expect it to make as much difference as it does lol. I would say this was a great addition for $80, 6lbs of weight added, and a few hours work!

tlow98 I appreciate your strong endorsement of this mod and I’m grateful you pushed me to do this because it really complements the M3 control arms and M3 steering rack wonderfully.

Last edited by Biginboca; 07-18-2020 at 04:55 PM..
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      07-19-2020, 08:57 AM   #283
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It finally stopped raining and the roads dried up here so just took a short ride to check out the results of the chassis plate. It really makes a difference I can feel and I was not expecting this to be as noticeable as it is!

I noticed it right away when I pulled out of my driveway and drove down my street just like I do every day on the same bumps and imperfections. The chassis definitely feels more solid on these little bumps and it adds a little more of that go kart feel to the steering. I really didn’t expect it to make as much difference as it does lol. I would say this was a great addition for $80, 6lbs of weight added, and a few hours work!

tlow98 I appreciate your strong endorsement of this mod and I’m grateful you pushed me to do this because it really complements the M3 control arms and M3 steering rack wonderfully.
That good ha? It might be worth checking out then. From what I have found I only seen 3 people (including you) who had done this, so there was little to no feedback. I wonder why is this not as wide accepted / recommend mod. Heck, why are there no aftermarket options?

In any case, did you end up removing the outer edge of the panel as noted in your post on top of page 12?
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      07-19-2020, 09:44 AM   #284
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That good ha? It might be worth checking out then. From what I have found I only seen 3 people (including you) who had done this, so there was little to no feedback. I wonder why is this not as wide accepted / recommend mod. Heck, why are there no aftermarket options?

In any case, did you end up removing the outer edge of the panel as noted in your post on top of page 12?
No, I left that outer edge on. I was hesitant to remove that unless absolutely necessary because that radius adds some strength, similar to how bead rolling a flat panel adds rigidity. tlow98 said he needed to remove that edge on the brace to install the original plastic panels over it, but my panels fit over the brace with that outer lip in place.
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      07-19-2020, 02:57 PM   #285
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That good ha? It might be worth checking out then. From what I have found I only seen 3 people (including you) who had done this, so there was little to no feedback. I wonder why is this not as wide accepted / recommend mod. Heck, why are there no aftermarket options?

In any case, did you end up removing the outer edge of the panel as noted in your post on top of page 12?
Nice! I sort of regret shaving that lip off. I did it only because it looked like it would interfere and I really wanted to keep that bottom shield for aero reasons. Super happy you were able to keep it.

Also, after seat we nee to see this rig on the scales Biginboca ! You can rent race scales for reasonable iirc :-) Or just drive to a dump

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No, I left that outer edge on. I was hesitant to remove that unless absolutely necessary because that radius adds some strength, similar to how bead rolling a flat panel adds rigidity. tlow98 said he needed to remove that edge on the brace to install the original plastic panels over it, but my panels fit over the brace with that outer lip in place.
From an engineering standpoint, the entire front is a pinned connection based box. Look of the definition of a "zero force member" and you'll get an idea of how poorly constructed a non-triangulated connection transmits force. There are some slight angles on the subframe, but not a lot, and of course, it's a welded unit and that makes it better than a pinned connection. Otherwise, it's all damn near right angles - terrible for twisting forces. Think of a cardboard box with two opposite ends missing. The top of the chassis is somewhat triangulated and reinforced with the top strut tower brace, but the bottom is awful for twisting forces which are encountered during cornering.

Closing that bottom - effectively taping up one end of your cardboard box makes an incredible difference. And, as ever, if the factory took the time, energy, and resources to do it, then it's probably a very measurable benefit to the consumer.

As far as why people don't do to - most 3 series owners are coming from other, less performance-oriented platforms where this sort of thing never existed and they also aren't coming from the M series, where this stuff is standard. Plus, why do this when you can spend $600 on a burble tune, yo?

But seriously, it's a more nuanced thing that takes some digging.

There are actually some aftermarket options for lower braces that freedomfries found that look interesting. Some company from Russia makes what looks to be worthwhile bracing.

Last edited by tlow98; 07-19-2020 at 11:41 PM..
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      07-19-2020, 03:15 PM   #286
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by W37V View Post
That good ha? It might be worth checking out then. From what I have found I only seen 3 people (including you) who had done this, so there was little to no feedback. I wonder why is this not as wide accepted / recommend mod. Heck, why are there no aftermarket options?

In any case, did you end up removing the outer edge of the panel as noted in your post on top of page 12?
Nice! I sort of regret shaving that lip off. I did it only because it looked like it would interfere and I really wanted to keep that bottom shield for aero reasons. Super happy you were able to keep it.

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Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
No, I left that outer edge on. I was hesitant to remove that unless absolutely necessary because that radius adds some strength, similar to how bead rolling a flat panel adds rigidity. tlow98 said he needed to remove that edge on the brace to install the original plastic panels over it, but my panels fit over the brace with that outer lip in place.
From an engineering standpoint, the entire front is a pinned connection based box. Look of the definition of a "zero force member" and you'll get an idea of how poorly constructed a non-triangulated connection transmits force. There are some slight angles on the subframe, but not a lot, and of course, it's a welded unit and that makes it better than a pinned connection. Otherwise, it's all damn near right angles - terrible for twisting forces. Think of a cardboard box with two opposite ends missing. The top of the chassis is somewhat triangulated and reinforced with the top strut tower brace, but the bottom is awful for twisting forces which are encountered during cornering.

Closing that bottom - effectively taping up one end of your cardboard box makes an incredible difference. And, as ever, if the factory took the time, energy, and resources to do it, then it's probably a very measurable benefit to the consumer.

As far as why people don't do to - most 3 series owners are coming from other, less performance-oriented platforms where this sort of thing never existed and they also aren't coming from the M series, where this stuff is standard. Plus, why do this when you can spend $600 on a burble tune, yo?

But seriously, it's a more nuanced thing that takes some digging.

There are actually some aftermarket options for lower braces that freedomfries found that look interesting. Some company from Russia makes what looks to be worthwhile bracing.
Very interesting topic!

Do you have the name of the Russian company that make these braces please?
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