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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > OEM like Turbo Options



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      04-15-2018, 02:26 PM   #1
GEOS07335i
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OEM like Turbo Options

I think my OEM turbos are on the way out. I keep getting smoke on cold start where engine idles below 1000 rpm. It goes away after a little driving. No water in the oil. It's not blue smoke. If I had to guess it's blown seal in the rear turbo. I see a little oil on my DP's. VCG has been replaced.

Anyway looking for a cost effective alternative to the OEM's Are there any options in the $1000-$1500 range.

What's the typical cost to install?

The only options that I have found are:

turbolabamerica Option: http://turbolabofamerica.com/bmw-335...grade-options/ $1050

RB Option http://www.rbturbo.com/products/335i/335i $999
RB Option Two http://www.rbturbo.com/products/335i/335i

VTT Option http://performance.vargasturbo.com/bmw-products/n54/

ECS OE Turbo Option: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-mitsubis...1657649289~va/ $709 each doesn't say if this is the front or the rear. So $1418 for the pair.

FCPEuroOE Turbo Option: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...hi-11657649290 $849 for the rear you still need the front https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/clo...nt-11657593015 front turbo is $819 so $1660 for both. These are the mitsubishi the OEM's are quite a bit more.


Are there another options?My intentions would be to add inlets/outlets and stg2 LPFP on e40. I believe I already have the other supporting mods: FMIC,DP's,CP,DCI, new plugs, coils walnut blasting, upgraded PCV.

I'm assuming at this point I'd be maxing out the auto trans, fuel system and turbo's efficiency.
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      04-15-2018, 02:47 PM   #2
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RB oem/billet upgrade
VTT oem/billet upgrade
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      04-15-2018, 08:50 PM   #3
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You could always get the Mitsubishi branded BMW turbos from a vendor, like FCP Euro and have lifetime warranty. Plus, the stock turbos usually last longer than any rebuilt turbo.
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      04-15-2018, 11:45 PM   #4
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If you have a low budget buy new oem turbos. Any aftermarket you buy will be a gamble if your after longevity and it'll cost you more in the end if you have to pay labor twice. Always think about labor when it comes to turbos because the labor isn't cheap. If you do it yourself and can handle replacing them if they break go aftermarket.
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      04-16-2018, 04:59 AM   #5
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That price range are all diys. I'm looking for something similar, I'm liking the RB stage 1 upgrade. Turbolab is very questionable about balancing, all that work done is useless if it's not balanced, the other hand, there upgrade would be a first option for the money.
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      04-16-2018, 05:58 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4 Doors View Post
You could always get the Mitsubishi branded BMW turbos from a vendor, like FCP Euro and have lifetime warranty. Plus, the stock turbos usually last longer than any rebuilt turbo.
This. You cannot go wrong with a lifetime warranty. Its a no brainer if 400whp is enough.
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      04-16-2018, 06:48 AM   #7
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White smoke on cold start that goes away when warm sounds more like injectors than turbo. Let the car sit overnight, pull plugs in morning. If you see a wet plug, it's the injector.
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      04-16-2018, 07:12 AM   #8
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Like meatos mentioned this vtt seeme to be a good OEM option w upgraded waste gates. Not sure why dont hear much of it,

http://performance.vargasturbo.com/bmw-products/n54/
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      04-16-2018, 09:16 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buster84 View Post
If you have a low budget buy new oem turbos. Any aftermarket you buy will be a gamble if your after longevity and it'll cost you more in the end if you have to pay labor twice. Always think about labor when it comes to turbos because the labor isn't cheap. If you do it yourself and can handle replacing them if they break go aftermarket.
You think these crappy mitsubitchi turbos would outlast a oair of Pures?!
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      04-16-2018, 09:44 AM   #10
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I also on the same boat, turbos will need replacing soon. I was considering the RB oem billets with upgraded wastegates option, Just a hair bit better than stocks

Or just going all out on some mmp turbos just not running them as hard to prolong life.
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      04-16-2018, 10:09 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buster84 View Post
If you have a low budget buy new oem turbos. Any aftermarket you buy will be a gamble if your after longevity and it'll cost you more in the end if you have to pay labor twice. Always think about labor when it comes to turbos because the labor isn't cheap. If you do it yourself and can handle replacing them if they break go aftermarket.
I've installed DP's FMIC I'm not sure how much more complicated installing turbo's would be also I know an other enthusiast that would help out I think around $500 to do the swap so but I agree there is always a risk if something isnt done right and the hassle of having to deal with the issue.

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Originally Posted by JuniorB View Post
That price range are all diys. I'm looking for something similar, I'm liking the RB stage 1 upgrade. Turbolab is very questionable about balancing, all that work done is useless if it's not balanced, the other hand, there upgrade would be a first option for the money.
You hit the nail on the head with this. This is my delima. On the one hand your getting slightly upgraded Turbo's AND your getting the wastegate fix. He does mention that he balances his stuff out but not on the VSR machine. He also has good feedback from users that have had his rebuilds on for some period of time. This is the direction I'm leaning. Sure there is more risk but the bang for buck is there.

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Originally Posted by dublin14 View Post
This. You cannot go wrong with a lifetime warranty. Its a no brainer if 400whp is enough.
The issue with OEM turbo's is your still in the same boat with the wastegate rattle 30FF . Not an issue with the turbo's themselves but the crappy design around the wastegates / flapper. If you go with the other options it sounds like they have fixed the wastegate issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick335XI View Post
You think these crappy mitsubitchi turbos would outlast a oair of Pures?!
Dont know some people have wastegate rattle 30ff code as early as 20K miles. My car has 124K miles on it and I have very little waste gate rattle. No 30FF codes for now. The OEM's are hit and miss too. But the Pures are going to give you a little more power and I believe they have addressed the wastegate's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpaul View Post
White smoke on cold start that goes away when warm sounds more like injectors than turbo. Let the car sit overnight, pull plugs in morning. If you see a wet plug, it's the injector.
humm I'll try this. I did replace my injectors wont say with what index. But I dont have any rough idles, car starts right up. No missfire issues. Now that the price of INDEX 12 injectors have skyrocketed this would really suck if I had to replace them all. The reason I think it's the seals on the turbo's is I have some oil dripping on the DP's and I recently replaced my VCG and dont think it's leaking from the VC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgop335 View Post
Like meatos mentioned this vtt seeme to be a good OEM option w upgraded waste gates. Not sure why dont hear much of it,

http://performance.vargasturbo.com/bmw-products/n54/
Seems like a good option as well. It's $1500 and one of the downsides for me is

WE DO NOT OFFER ADAPTERS TO FIT STOCK, MISHIMOTO, DINAN, HPF, PHOENIX, OR ANY INTERCOOLER WITH THE CLIP STYLE INLET

This rules me out as I have a CLIP style inlet.

What's the typical cost at an INDY to replace OEM turbo's? I know my local INDY shop charges $95 an hour. How many hours does this involve. I think for DP's they wanted to charge me 8hrs labor and this seems a bit more involved.

The advantage of going with the Pures, VTT and RB's are they seem very skilled and know there stuff and they seem to be very involved in the forums so the customer service is there. Your also going to get a better quality product. If I had more $ I'd go with a ST option but I dont and my goals would be to max out fuel system with a stage 2 LPFP, inlets, outlets, FBO. I'm guessing with an E40-E60 mix you would be around the 500rwp+ with a stage 1 turbo upgrade. A guy at our club just put down 468rwp with inlets, outlets FBO, STG2 LPFP on E50 on stock turbos.
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      04-16-2018, 01:37 PM   #12
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I'm in the exact same boat. None of the aftermarket guys are giving me much confidence. At the end of the day, my car is worth about $10grand, putting 5k into turbos and then another 2-3 for a new clutch seems crazy.. I'm at 94k miles and know my turbos are on their last leg.

I don't know why it didn't hit me before but OEM through FCPEuro now seems like a no brainer with that warrenty, has anyone had success getting them replaced through FCP?

I want to but my wallet doesnt want to continue down the path to more power (LSD, Fuel,etc). I'm FBO and the car is plenty powerful (did I just say that?!?!)

I'm planning to hang onto these turbos till they die and hopefully by then will have purchased a new wrangler as a DD (I'm about a year out). Then I'll put my car up on jacks and tackle the turbos and clutch at the same time in my garage. I've watched countless videos and there doesn't seem to be anything too complicated aside from frozen bolts and tight quarters.
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      04-16-2018, 02:04 PM   #13
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Do you have problem with wg rattle or has they been changed under warranty? Otherwise only changing the CHRA is a good option and you save alot of money.
I changed my turbos with turbos from an 1M car from 2012 that was 2600miles old with zero play, cost me just 350 dollar, one of the turbos was just to bolt on, on the other one i had to swap the CHRA over from 1M manifold to my old manifold because it did not fit. WG and angle of turbo was different, dont remember if it was the front or rear. But it is very easy to only change the core over if you buy some new, my car have the newer wg that was changed under warranty because of the rattle.
As far as i know the rattle was corrected on later year turbos, my e92 is from 07. The 1M turbos from 2012 has better wg from factory and i have zero rattle from either the old or the newer

http://performance.vargasturbo.com/bmw-products/n54/

Otherwise if you just want stock turbos then new mitsu turbos would be my suggestion https://www.ecstuning.com/b-mitsubis...1657649289~va/

Last edited by Meatos; 04-16-2018 at 02:20 PM.
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      04-16-2018, 02:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick335XI View Post
You think these crappy mitsubitchi turbos would outlast a oair of Pures?!
Are you serious? They aren't crappy and there aren't any aftermarket twins that will out live them.
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      04-16-2018, 02:19 PM   #15
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.
I changed my turbos with turbos from an 1M car from 2012 that was 2600miles old with zero play
Impossible, even BNIB have play. Watch these (my own hands) :
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      04-16-2018, 02:23 PM   #16
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Impossible, even BNIB have play. Watch these (my own hands)
NO i meant in the turbos, the wg always have some play, but no rattle
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      04-16-2018, 02:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
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NO i meant in the turbos, the wg always have some play, but no rattle
Oh, sorry, you was talking about the CHRA. Yes, that is usually good for long time. The issue with these is the wastegate.
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      04-16-2018, 02:35 PM   #18
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Thanks for the links keep them coming I've updated the original thread.

I have a little WG rattle on startup only. Could be flapper or WG haven't really looked into it. But I do have a little bit of play on my WG actuator arm. I dont have F330 codes. But I have a 130K miles on mine original OEM's. Not only that, I recently started seeing a little oil on my DP's. I'm just doing some research as I know this is right around the corner.

We each have our own goals. If you want reliability I guess FCP Euro would be the way to go. But are you going to keep your car for ever? I probably have $1500 in receipts so far from FCP Euro not sure if I'll ever have to send anything back yet. Probably my plugs, brakes, rotors maybe a few other items. Havent yet though but It's good insurance for sure. So the FCP Euro is not for me in this particular case. I guess my situation is a little different I'm cheap by nature and always looking for a "good deal" sometimes I get burned like buying my current car lol but most of the times I come out on top. Research is key but not always guaranteed and there is always an inherent risk when modding. For example I've been perfectly happy with my ARM FBO kit. Fitment was spot on and I feel like I saved hundreds over VSRF. Dyno proof coming next week so I hope its on par with the other FBO options currently on the market. I probably wont keep my car for more than a year or two I just like swap cars out. What I am looking to do is maximize the full potential of what the car can take with out going over bored. I have no intention of swapping out my AUTO or putting an LSD etc... What I do want to do and I think it's what a lot of people on this thread would like to do is make the most of what the car can do with OEM turbo's and a Stage 2 LPFP. So if I need turbo's I will want to take the lease expensive route and make sure I make the most of it. I dont really want to get replacement turbo's but I might have too if my smoke issue gets any worse. I'd rather spend the money on Stage 2 LPFP and get inlets / outles. But now this may take a back seat.

I live an hour from ATLANTA Road Way and about an hour or so from the drag strip. I'd really like to run an 11 or very low 12 sec at the drag track so the most power I can make on pump gas and ethanol to achieve my goals is what I'm after and no I wont be running meth or NO2

I'd really like to see Dyno on FBO car's with STAGE 1 upgraded turbo's. I will have to take a second look. I think this would make it easy for me to decide but haven't seen this yet. I think vtt states 525rwp but I'm assuming this along with RBB and TurboLab's these numbers are only achievable with full FBO / inlets / outlets and emix. This is important to note because if you expect to hit 500rwp with out all this other stuff then your been misinformed.

I feel like I'm 3/4 of the way there with the current mods I have.
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      04-16-2018, 02:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
Oh, sorry, you was talking about the CHRA. Yes, that is usually good for long time. The issue with these is the wastegate.
The play you show in the video had my wg also, i tried to do an washer to minimize the play but that caused the wg operation to get a little stuck so i leaved it as i was, they have to have some play just for smooth operation i guess because the metal also moves alot from cold to hot.
You got to have alot more play in the wg before rattle occurs.
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      04-16-2018, 02:43 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatos View Post
Do you have problem with wg rattle or has they been changed under warranty? Otherwise only changing the CHRA is a good option and you save alot of money.
I changed my turbos with turbos from an 1M car from 2012 that was 2600miles old with zero play, cost me just 350 dollar, one of the turbos was just to bolt on, on the other one i had to swap the CHRA over from 1M manifold to my old manifold because it did not fit. WG and angle of turbo was different, dont remember if it was the front or rear. But it is very easy to only change the core over if you buy some new, my car have the newer wg that was changed under warranty because of the rattle.
As far as i know the rattle was corrected on later year turbos, my e92 is from 07. The 1M turbos from 2012 has better wg from factory and i have zero rattle from either the old or the newer

http://performance.vargasturbo.com/bmw-products/n54/

Otherwise if you just want stock turbos then new mitsu turbos would be my suggestion https://www.ecstuning.com/b-mitsubis...1657649289~va/
My WG rattle just got noticeable a few weeks ago after my DP installation so I don't know if it was always there or just coincidence. My Turbos are original to the car and are at 94k miles.

That's an interesting idea to replace that part. could I also replace the WG at the same time?
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      04-16-2018, 02:51 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blau iii View Post
My WG rattle just got noticeable a few weeks ago after my DP installation so I don't know if it was always there or just coincidence. My Turbos are original to the car and are at 94k miles.

That's an interesting idea to replace that part. could I also replace the WG at the same time?
I think that the rattle is caused by play in the bushing between the arm and flapper. So you have to change the bushing to get rid of the rattle completely. So new CHRAs and WG rebuild kit then it should be as good as new.
Havent heard of any problems with the actuators so they can be reused
Totally duable if you have the right tools and knowledge http://turbolabofamerica.com/categor...rebuild-video/

Last edited by Meatos; 04-16-2018 at 03:06 PM.
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      04-16-2018, 03:33 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatos View Post
I think that the rattle is caused by play in the bushing between the arm and flapper. So you have to change the bushing to get rid of the rattle completely. So new CHRAs and WG rebuild kit then it should be as good as new.
Havent heard of any problems with the actuators so they can be reused
Totally duable if you have the right tools and knowledge http://turbolabofamerica.com/categor...rebuild-video/
Also, good rebuild kit is needed: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...59&postcount=9
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