Finding good indie shop

tobewan · 10-25-2021, 12:18 PM

This thread is a good intro to the issue:
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1819349

Tired of paying stealership prices and looking for an indie shop. Need to replace rear shocks and front strut assemblies on my '06 330i.

One shop I talked to quoted 30% above retail for strut assemblies (MasterPro for $245/ea vs Oreilly price of $190). Shop owner also stated "The average labor rate in Evansville is in the vicinity of $125 an hour. That labor rate drastically increases with European." He quoted $110/hour as a 'favor' and said the rate with customer supplied parts was $135/hour.

I have no problem paying a premium labor rate for work that requires training and experience. But this is fairly common suspension work and rear shock seems to be a straight forward DIY project.

So my questions are:
1 - Is 30% markup over retail common practice and I should just STFU about it?
2 - Should I expect to pay premium labor rates for all jobs just because I have a BMW?

TIA
Toby

whyzee125 · 10-25-2021, 12:40 PM

Yes the markup is pretty normal for a European shop. I'd rather supply my own Konis than pay too much for average quality shocks.

Yes but any competent shop can do this. I wouldn't worry about it being a BMW specific shop, just make sure it's a good shop.

ryan stewart · 10-25-2021, 12:53 PM

That all seems pretty commonplace, although the attitude (if its accurately reflected in your post) is not the best. A good independent is usually pretty open and flexible.

I tend to DIY as much as possible but I did send my car to a shop for a known issue just to get a feel for them in case I was in a bind and they were bang on with their diagnosis and cost (obviously more than DIY but fair for independent labor). Also communicative and pretty quick about.

And Im taking a car back in because I just got defeated by my girlfriends VW, I bought all of the parts for what should have been a simple job but it turns out they built the control arm bushings in a way where they can corrode and fuse to the bolts. Called the shop and they said they would use my parts but that they just couldn't warranty their work, fair enough.

Im using Lemfoerder so I know its going to be fine but warranty incurs a cost and the cost often comes out of the markup. Its pretty common in most industries. Just look at buying a computer drive from microcenter, you can get "oem" or retail. OEM is cheap but doesnt come with the full warranty compared to retail. Its just a different way to charge for the potential costs.

Rear shocks are "easy" but there are two variables. In some cars accessing the top mounts can be a PITA. Not hard, just tedious to pull the interior to get to them. The shop is paying the tech even if the work he is doing is "easy." And then there is the unforeseen like my second paragraph. Ive done tons of control arms, with an impact and a fork swapping them out on my BMW is a joke. But I just got my ass kicked by a VW.

tobewan · 10-26-2021, 04:43 PM

Thanks for the feedback. I found a shop with good reviews and recommendation from a friend that will install customer supplied parts and will see how it goes. I'll remove the trunk liner to save them some time. (Less likely to have plastic rivets 'misplaced' too)
One other shop I called flatly refuses to install customer parts. I guess I need to cut them some slack and go with the flow.
Just touchy after dropping $1300 for VC gasket and $650 for OFH gasket at dealer earlier this year. Yes, I know these take time to do right but geez! I probably could have done the OFHG but don't have a good place to work on it.

mct128i · 10-27-2021, 09:54 AM

This is a good resource for independent techs:

https://www.bimmershops.com/

tobewan · 11-19-2021, 05:26 PM

Thanks for the advice. To wrap up this discussion, I purchased Gabriel ReadyMount strut assemblies and rear shocks, and Lemforder thrust arms.
Labor to install all 6 components was 739, plus parts which were $512 for the above items plus $306 for shock mounts and sway bar links which the shop supplied (at a healthy markup). Anyway, for $1550-ish I got this work done (vs $1800 quote for struts/shocks only at the other shop). Main complaint is that they neglected to move the dust covers from the old shocks to the new shocks so there's no dust covers. Apparently, that's not common knowledge.
If you go this route, I would suggest sitting down with the shop and going over all details of the work, whether they claim to know what they are doing or not.

F30lolz · 11-20-2021, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobewan

This thread is a good intro to the issue:
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1819349

Tired of paying stealership prices and looking for an indie shop. Need to replace rear shocks and front strut assemblies on my '06 330i.

One shop I talked to quoted 30% above retail for strut assemblies (MasterPro for $245/ea vs Oreilly price of $190). Shop owner also stated "The average labor rate in Evansville is in the vicinity of $125 an hour. That labor rate drastically increases with European." He quoted $110/hour as a 'favor' and said the rate with customer supplied parts was $135/hour.

I have no problem paying a premium labor rate for work that requires training and experience. But this is fairly common suspension work and rear shock seems to be a straight forward DIY project.

So my questions are:
1 - Is 30% markup over retail common practice and I should just STFU about it?
2 - Should I expect to pay premium labor rates for all jobs just because I have a BMW?

TIA
Toby

It’ll be a hike for you but on the south side of Indianapolis I know of a shop that charges a meager $100/hour regardless if you supply the parts or not. They specialize in euros and high end makes.

Efthreeoh · 11-20-2021, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobewan

Thanks for the advice. To wrap up this discussion, I purchased Gabriel ReadyMount strut assemblies and rear shocks, and Lemforder thrust arms.
Labor to install all 6 components was 739, plus parts which were $512 for the above items plus $306 for shock mounts and sway bar links which the shop supplied (at a healthy markup). Anyway, for $1550-ish I got this work done (vs $1800 quote for struts/shocks only at the other shop). Main complaint is that they neglected to move the dust covers from the old shocks to the new shocks so there's no dust covers. Apparently, that's not common knowledge.
If you go this route, I would suggest sitting down with the shop and going over all details of the work, whether they claim to know what they are doing or not.

So could you clear up "$306 for shock mounts and sway bar links". When you say "shock mounts" I hope you mean the two front suspension strut mounts, which BMW calls a "guide support". Guide supports run around $99 MSRP ea. for OE BMW parts (getBMWpart.com has them on sale right now for $66 ea.). Rear shock mounts, for the rear shocks (i.e. not "struts") are inexpensive parts. There are several piece parts for the rear upper shock mounts, but all told for both sides it totals around $60 MSRP BMW OE parts. Sway bar links are inexpensive parts too, OE are $62 ea. at MSRP and less than half that for OEM versions.

And why did you choose Gabriel front struts? I tried to find ready-mount struts from Gabriel for an E90 on the web, but couldn't find an exact part, but the images of Gabriel ready-mount struts for other vehicles show the "guide support" already mounted on the assembly, which it should be since the guide support is the upper spring perch on the front strut. And God only knows what specs the struts (and springs) are designed to. It's a BMW E90, not a Ford Fusion you are driving...

So if you paid $306 for rear mounts and rear swaybar links you got screwed. If you got front guide supports for the struts AND bought ready-mount Gabriel struts, then you got screwed because the ready-mount struts include the guide support as part of the strut assembly.

Aceway · 11-20-2021, 11:27 AM

That's ridiculous, you shouldn't expect to pay those prices. If you ever venture up to btown Alex @ Jericho Motorsport and his team do good work at fair prices. They're track enthusiasts and they might know a good shop they can recommend in your area.

tobewan · 11-20-2021, 04:47 PM

First - thanks for the recommendations on shops. Current home situation makes getting away for a day or long distance pickup/drop-off a non-starter. But I'll make note of these shops for future reference. Much appreciated. Also, car is not a daily driver and doesn't get a lot of miles. With 120K miles it was due for a refresh, one rear shock was blown (leaked out the oil), and didn't feel 'tight'. I do need it for occasional trips and wanted to have the suspension in good shape after getting the gaskets done in January.

Why Gabriel? - good question, there are so many, how do you pick? I wanted to go with strut assembly to reduce labor. Couldn't find top of line names that had complete assemblies, like KYB, Bilstein, maybe I'm not a good searcher. Shops only mentioned what they sold. Found MasterPro, Sensen, Detroit Axle, Unity, etc, online, the list goes on... Searching forums found some posts mentioning satisfaction with Gabriel on BMW.

Their website / catalog shows the parts for my car

The bill shows front sway bar links ($70/ea) and rear shock mounts top & bottom. Yes I was overcharged for those, no part #s provided. Another reason I'm using not this shop again. If I were smart (don't you love it when someone says that to you), I'd have anticipated needing the mounts and gotten them.

Then since I was opening up the front end and - thrust arm bushings were leaking and - no maintenance info prior to 100K (2nd bushing in the arm?) so - decided to replace the arms and went with Lemforder.

Also got alignment and balance which hadn't been done in quite a while. What little driving I've done since the work feels pretty good, definitely tighter feel, ride doesn't seem harsh. I knew I'd get some shade thrown my way for not using orig bmw or top of the line parts. For me and this car now, this is fine. Thanks for all your advice!

tobewan · 11-20-2021, 04:49 PM

Note to Aceway - I'll check with Alex @ Jericho to see if he knows anyone here. Thanks!

marvinstockman · 11-21-2021, 10:02 AM

The problem with finding a good independent repair shop is that it is very, very hard to make a living and be completely honest.

I go to a small one man shop, and the only reason he can stay in business is that his wife has a good job that includes family health insurance. Such is the American way!

10-25-2021, 12:18 PM	#1
tobewan New Member 0 Rep 19 Posts Drives: 2006 BMW 330i Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Evansville, IN iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 BMW 330i [0.00]	Finding good indie shop This thread is a good intro to the issue: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1819349 Tired of paying stealership prices and looking for an indie shop. Need to replace rear shocks and front strut assemblies on my '06 330i. One shop I talked to quoted 30% above retail for strut assemblies (MasterPro for $245/ea vs Oreilly price of $190). Shop owner also stated "The average labor rate in Evansville is in the vicinity of $125 an hour. That labor rate drastically increases with European." He quoted $110/hour as a 'favor' and said the rate with customer supplied parts was $135/hour. I have no problem paying a premium labor rate for work that requires training and experience. But this is fairly common suspension work and rear shock seems to be a straight forward DIY project. So my questions are: 1 - Is 30% markup over retail common practice and I should just STFU about it? 2 - Should I expect to pay premium labor rates for all jobs just because I have a BMW? TIA Toby
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10-25-2021, 12:40 PM	#2
whyzee125 Brigadier General 1662 Rep 3,624 Posts Drives: Dinan stage 2 335i Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Chattanooga Tn iTrader: (0)	Yes the markup is pretty normal for a European shop. I'd rather supply my own Konis than pay too much for average quality shocks. Yes but any competent shop can do this. I wouldn't worry about it being a BMW specific shop, just make sure it's a good shop.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-25-2021, 12:53 PM	#3
ryan stewart Major 2197 Rep 1,322 Posts Drives: 2008 328it Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA iTrader: (0)	That all seems pretty commonplace, although the attitude (if its accurately reflected in your post) is not the best. A good independent is usually pretty open and flexible. I tend to DIY as much as possible but I did send my car to a shop for a known issue just to get a feel for them in case I was in a bind and they were bang on with their diagnosis and cost (obviously more than DIY but fair for independent labor). Also communicative and pretty quick about. And Im taking a car back in because I just got defeated by my girlfriends VW, I bought all of the parts for what should have been a simple job but it turns out they built the control arm bushings in a way where they can corrode and fuse to the bolts. Called the shop and they said they would use my parts but that they just couldn't warranty their work, fair enough. Im using Lemfoerder so I know its going to be fine but warranty incurs a cost and the cost often comes out of the markup. Its pretty common in most industries. Just look at buying a computer drive from microcenter, you can get "oem" or retail. OEM is cheap but doesnt come with the full warranty compared to retail. Its just a different way to charge for the potential costs. Rear shocks are "easy" but there are two variables. In some cars accessing the top mounts can be a PITA. Not hard, just tedious to pull the interior to get to them. The shop is paying the tech even if the work he is doing is "easy." And then there is the unforeseen like my second paragraph. Ive done tons of control arms, with an impact and a fork swapping them out on my BMW is a joke. But I just got my ass kicked by a VW.
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10-26-2021, 04:43 PM	#4
tobewan New Member 0 Rep 19 Posts Drives: 2006 BMW 330i Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Evansville, IN iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 BMW 330i [0.00]	Thanks for the feedback. I found a shop with good reviews and recommendation from a friend that will install customer supplied parts and will see how it goes. I'll remove the trunk liner to save them some time. (Less likely to have plastic rivets 'misplaced' too) One other shop I called flatly refuses to install customer parts. I guess I need to cut them some slack and go with the flow. Just touchy after dropping $1300 for VC gasket and $650 for OFH gasket at dealer earlier this year. Yes, I know these take time to do right but geez! I probably could have done the OFHG but don't have a good place to work on it.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-27-2021, 09:54 AM	#5
mct128i Private 75 Rep 70 Posts Drives: 2011 128i, 2019 X3, 2022 230i Join Date: Aug 2021 Location: Long Beach, CA iTrader: (0)	This is a good resource for independent techs: https://www.bimmershops.com/
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11-19-2021, 05:26 PM	#6
tobewan New Member 0 Rep 19 Posts Drives: 2006 BMW 330i Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Evansville, IN iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 BMW 330i [0.00]	Thanks for the advice. To wrap up this discussion, I purchased Gabriel ReadyMount strut assemblies and rear shocks, and Lemforder thrust arms. Labor to install all 6 components was 739, plus parts which were $512 for the above items plus $306 for shock mounts and sway bar links which the shop supplied (at a healthy markup). Anyway, for $1550-ish I got this work done (vs $1800 quote for struts/shocks only at the other shop). Main complaint is that they neglected to move the dust covers from the old shocks to the new shocks so there's no dust covers. Apparently, that's not common knowledge. If you go this route, I would suggest sitting down with the shop and going over all details of the work, whether they claim to know what they are doing or not.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-20-2021, 11:27 AM	#9
Aceway Captain 455 Rep 875 Posts Drives: E82 135i / F25 28i Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: SoCal iTrader: (2)	That's ridiculous, you shouldn't expect to pay those prices. If you ever venture up to btown Alex @ Jericho Motorsport and his team do good work at fair prices. They're track enthusiasts and they might know a good shop they can recommend in your area.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-20-2021, 04:47 PM	#10
tobewan New Member 0 Rep 19 Posts Drives: 2006 BMW 330i Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Evansville, IN iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 BMW 330i [0.00]	First - thanks for the recommendations on shops. Current home situation makes getting away for a day or long distance pickup/drop-off a non-starter. But I'll make note of these shops for future reference. Much appreciated. Also, car is not a daily driver and doesn't get a lot of miles. With 120K miles it was due for a refresh, one rear shock was blown (leaked out the oil), and didn't feel 'tight'. I do need it for occasional trips and wanted to have the suspension in good shape after getting the gaskets done in January. Why Gabriel? - good question, there are so many, how do you pick? I wanted to go with strut assembly to reduce labor. Couldn't find top of line names that had complete assemblies, like KYB, Bilstein, maybe I'm not a good searcher. Shops only mentioned what they sold. Found MasterPro, Sensen, Detroit Axle, Unity, etc, online, the list goes on... Searching forums found some posts mentioning satisfaction with Gabriel on BMW. Their website / catalog shows the parts for my car The bill shows front sway bar links ($70/ea) and rear shock mounts top & bottom. Yes I was overcharged for those, no part #s provided. Another reason I'm using not this shop again. If I were smart (don't you love it when someone says that to you), I'd have anticipated needing the mounts and gotten them. Then since I was opening up the front end and - thrust arm bushings were leaking and - no maintenance info prior to 100K (2nd bushing in the arm?) so - decided to replace the arms and went with Lemforder. Also got alignment and balance which hadn't been done in quite a while. What little driving I've done since the work feels pretty good, definitely tighter feel, ride doesn't seem harsh. I knew I'd get some shade thrown my way for not using orig bmw or top of the line parts. For me and this car now, this is fine. Thanks for all your advice!
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11-20-2021, 04:49 PM	#11
tobewan New Member 0 Rep 19 Posts Drives: 2006 BMW 330i Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Evansville, IN iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 BMW 330i [0.00]	Note to Aceway - I'll check with Alex @ Jericho to see if he knows anyone here. Thanks!
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11-21-2021, 10:02 AM	#12
marvinstockman Major 399 Rep 1,077 Posts Drives: 2011 BMW 328i Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Rockville, MD iTrader: (0)	The problem with finding a good independent repair shop is that it is very, very hard to make a living and be completely honest. I go to a small one man shop, and the only reason he can stay in business is that his wife has a good job that includes family health insurance. Such is the American way!
	Appreciate 0 Quote