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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Bimmerlabs 330i Tune DIY Step by Step



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      09-30-2021, 02:51 PM   #683
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Ok since you guys brought it up and this thread is totally derailed anyway I have a question…

I’m getting ready to install one of those crank hub seal guards. There are quite a few companies selling them now.

They all work the same way, undo the crank hub pulley and then bolt the guard over the crank hub seal using the bottom front 2 bolts below the crank hub. Shown here:



So some companies selling the guards are using aluminum bolts, some are using stainless bolts, and some using undisclosed (I assume steel) bolts. I ordered the ECS Tuning one which uses stainless bolts.

I did some reading and it said any of those would be ok in aluminum provided you are using a smaller steel part in a large aluminum part. (Like a single bolt into an aluminum block).

But is that area shown in the image above with the 2 screws aluminum or magnesium?
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      09-30-2021, 03:01 PM   #684
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I'd have to have a closer look at my stand engine when I get home but I think the entire outside of the engine is magnesium so that could be too.

The bottom part is the bed plate which I'm sure is aluminum, however the bolt threads up into what is the magnesium outer shell of the engine. I'd prefer to use aluminum bolts.
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      09-30-2021, 03:04 PM   #685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
the head is aluminum. so anything that attaches to it is steel.

OFH bolts are definitely aluminum. they thread into the block.
Not true. At least not in my car. I just did a quick test with a magnet with those bolts. I tried my test with other bolts while I was at it: the alternator bolts are definitely aluminum, whereas the VANOS solenoid bolts were steel.
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      09-30-2021, 03:32 PM   #686
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Guys, I have an update with my project: I just wrapped it all up. Tune + 3-Stage -IM swap is now officially completed. I went on a test drive grinning ear-to-ear like a fool. It was worth every penny and every minute of the effort I put into it. My DD is no longer boring and drives like a champ.

Special thanks to E92_William and hassmaschine.
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      09-30-2021, 03:37 PM   #687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtual Factoid View Post
Guys, I have an update with my project: I just wrapped it all up. Tune + 3-Stage -IM swap is now officially completed. I went on a test drive grinning ear-to-ear like a fool. It was worth every penny and every minute of the effort I put into it. My DD is no longer boring and drives like a champ.

Special thanks to E92_William and hassmaschine.
Hope you haven't lost the lower rubber mount to the airbox Makes a difference long term.
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      09-30-2021, 03:49 PM   #688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewater328 View Post
Hope you haven't lost the lower rubber mount to the airbox Makes a difference long term.
Did you mean the rubber disc with the screw poking out of it in my first photo attachment? Yeah, it is still there
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      09-30-2021, 03:52 PM   #689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtual Factoid View Post
Did you mean the rubber disc with the screw poking out of it in my first photo attachment? Yeah, it is still there
Well, the piece that supposed to be on that:
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_In...IaAsgwEALw_wcB
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      09-30-2021, 04:11 PM   #690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewater328 View Post
Well, the piece that supposed to be on that:
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_In...IaAsgwEALw_wcB
Ugh. I must have lost that thingamajiggy a long time ago. Definitely not this time. Will rummage through my workshop and see if I can find a substitute for that.
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      09-30-2021, 04:13 PM   #691
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What long term difference does it make? Mine fell out a very long time ago and I found it in the garage but didn't know what it was, put it somewhere and now it's gone.
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      09-30-2021, 04:16 PM   #692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92_William View Post
What long term difference does it make? Mine fell out a very long time ago and I found it in the garage but didn't know what it was, put it somewhere and now it's gone.
Rattling, alignment with the screws/ducting that goes to TB, and your airbox may have a tendency to sit on the upper rad hose or press it down as you reinstall/maneuver the airbox components back in. Bad news for a piece (the upper rad) that self-destructs on its own :P
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      09-30-2021, 07:38 PM   #693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtual Factoid View Post
Not true. At least not in my car. I just did a quick test with a magnet with those bolts. I tried my test with other bolts while I was at it: the alternator bolts are definitely aluminum, whereas the VANOS solenoid bolts were steel.
Head is aluminum, anything bolts to head (except magnesium valve cover '06 year valve cover bolts) are steel.

Oil filter housing bolts onto to the head, uses steel bolts.
Vanos solenoids bolt onto the head, they use steel bolts.
Intake manifold bolts onto the head, steel bolts.

Alternator bolts on to the magnesium outer jacket of the block, it uses aluminum bolts. Starter same, aluminum bolt. Knock sensors same, aluminum bolt and so on. Oil pan bolts on to magnesium bed plate, aluminum bolts. Accessory belt tensioner bolts onto the front outer part of engine, which is magnesium, aluminum bolt. The accessory idler pulley bolts onto the alternator, if my memory is correct, steel bolt, since alternator is aluminum itself.
Engine mount support brackets bolt onto magnesium outer jacket again aluminum bolts.
It is not arbitrary choice.
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      09-30-2021, 07:45 PM   #694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtual Factoid View Post
Ugh. I must have lost that thingamajiggy a long time ago. Definitely not this time. Will rummage through my workshop and see if I can find a substitute for that.
Take a closer look at the engine underbelly pan, it keeps it. I had found mine there after I had lost it during airbox removal and install for somework. Now I have one extra, I had already bought replacement then found it at the belly pan.

That rubber disc there doesn't look factory. There is nothing like that on mine. If you are not original owner, previous owner may have lost that dome rubber mount and put that rubber disc instead. The rubber disc will still help, the air box won't be knocking right onto the frame over there as car bounces at road bumps. But it won't prevent lateral movements of the air box at the bottom.
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      09-30-2021, 07:46 PM   #695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtual Factoid View Post
Guys, I have an update with my project: I just wrapped it all up. Tune + 3-Stage -IM swap is now officially completed. I went on a test drive grinning ear-to-ear like a fool. It was worth every penny and every minute of the effort I put into it. My DD is no longer boring and drives like a champ.

Special thanks to E92_William and hassmaschine.
Reminded me how I had felt after my first drive with the 3 stage IM and tune upgrade. Hats off to hassmachine!
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      09-30-2021, 07:52 PM   #696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92_William View Post
The bottom part is the bed plate which I'm sure is aluminum, however the bolt threads up into what is the magnesium outer shell of the engine. I'd prefer to use aluminum bolts.
Bed plate is magnesium. I would be surprised if those were not aluminum bolts.
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      09-30-2021, 07:58 PM   #697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhaseP View Post
Head is aluminum, anything bolts to head (except magnesium valve cover '06 year valve cover bolts) are steel.

Oil filter housing bolts onto to the head, uses steel bolts.
Vanos solenoids bolt onto the head, they use steel bolts.
Intake manifold bolts onto the head, steel bolts.

Alternator bolts on to the magnesium outer jacket of the block, it uses aluminum bolts. Starter same, aluminum bolt. Knock sensors same, aluminum bolt and so on. Oil pan bolts on to magnesium bed plate, aluminum bolts. Accessory belt tensioner bolts onto the front outer part of engine, which is magnesium, aluminum bolt. The accessory idler pulley bolts onto the alternator, if my memory is correct, steel bolt, since alternator is aluminum itself.
Engine mount support brackets bolt onto magnesium outer jacket again aluminum bolts.
It is not arbitrary choice.
Thanks for the detailed explanation. Makes sense. In summary, it is magnesium that does not play nice with steel whereas aluminum has no such issues.

I personally don't like aluminum bolts particularly because of their single-use torque-to-yield type of usage. I always end up slightly under-torquing them (the degree/angle-torque part) because I am paranoid about snapping them. They also feel like cheese to me. I know, I know there are legit reasons like you said.
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      09-30-2021, 08:31 PM   #698
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhaseP View Post
Take a closer look at the engine underbelly pan, it keeps it. I had found mine there after I had lost it during airbox removal and install for somework. Now I have one extra, I had already bought replacement then found it at the belly pan.

That rubber disc there doesn't look factory. There is nothing like that on mine. If you are not original owner, previous owner may have lost that dome rubber mount and put that rubber disc instead. The rubber disc will still help, the air box won't be knocking right onto the frame over there as car bounces at road bumps. But it won't prevent lateral movements of the air box at the bottom.
You are probably right about the belly pan. However, the rubber disc was a hack job that I did (and forgot) a long time ago I am the second owner. The original owner had the car for a short time before he sold it. I doubt he lifted the hood even once during his ownership. He was not mechanically inclined at all. So I have three choices: 1) rejigger it with a better hack job for lateral support 2) fish it out of the belly pan 3) order it right away since it is a cheap item.

What an underwhelming challenge after the 3-SIM work
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      09-30-2021, 08:46 PM   #699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
I’m getting ready to install one of those crank hub seal guards. There are quite a few companies selling them now.

So some companies selling the guards are using aluminum bolts, some are using stainless bolts, and some using undisclosed (I assume steel) bolts. I ordered the ECS Tuning one which uses stainless bolts.

I did some reading and it said any of those would be ok in aluminum provided you are using a smaller steel part in a large aluminum part. (Like a single bolt into an aluminum block).

But is that area shown in the image above with the 2 screws aluminum or magnesium?
Urgh I just lost everything I typed... so here's an abbreviated ish version lol

-It bolts into magnesium & OEM bolts are aluminum for N52

-Looked into this as I was assured SS & mag were compatible
-Depending on the grade used, corrosion may not be a concern
-BUT the expansion and contraction rates do not match!!!
-Aluminum bolts definitely needed
-OEM bolts too short given guard's thickness & also only come in a full bedplate bolt set
-Guard seller specified an M8 x 40 bolt & recommends medium strength Loctite
-May be different length for other guard designs, but easy to measure yourself

-This is what I bought & plan to shorten to 40mm
-Only thing I'm not 100% sure of is the flange dia, but likely fine & if not, easy to file

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...al-11137582340

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      10-01-2021, 10:37 AM   #700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
Ok since you guys brought it up and this thread is totally derailed anyway I have a question…

I’m getting ready to install one of those crank hub seal guards. There are quite a few companies selling them now.

They all work the same way, undo the crank hub pulley and then bolt the guard over the crank hub seal using the bottom front 2 bolts below the crank hub. Shown here:



So some companies selling the guards are using aluminum bolts, some are using stainless bolts, and some using undisclosed (I assume steel) bolts. I ordered the ECS Tuning one which uses stainless bolts.

I did some reading and it said any of those would be ok in aluminum provided you are using a smaller steel part in a large aluminum part. (Like a single bolt into an aluminum block).

But is that area shown in the image above with the 2 screws aluminum or magnesium?
Those definitely need to be aluminum bolts. that part of the block is magnesium.

Keep in mind the N54 seal is the same, so the kits that come with steel bolts are probably for N54s.
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      10-01-2021, 10:49 AM   #701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
Those definitely need to be aluminum bolts. that part of the block is magnesium.

Keep in mind the N54 seal is the same, so the kits that come with steel bolts are probably for N54s.
Man I wish that were true. The one guard I found which includes aluminum bolts was listed as N54/55 and didn’t mention N52 so I skipped that one, plus it was $150. I should have know better than to trust ECS tuning to do their homework. The reason I picked theirs is because it had the most comprehensive instructions and I figured since they put so much work into making good directions I would give them my business.

And looking at their guard it’s going to be hard to make it work with any screws that aren’t socket head.



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      10-01-2021, 10:53 AM   #702
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For the record here’s all the crank hub seal guards I’ve found so far…


https://vargasturbo.com/product/vtt-...nk-seal-guard/

https://www.maloindustries.com/produ...ection-plate-1

https://www.kiesmotorsports.com/prod...82-f83-e92-etc

https://store.vacmotorsports.com/vac...s55-p4964.aspx

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-part.../005771la01~b/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/254984169174
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      10-01-2021, 10:55 AM   #703
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Any thoughts on using this with the ECS guard i have coming…


2pcs M8 x 1 x 40 mm Titanium Ti Screw Fine Thread Bolt Allen Hex Socket Cap Head/Aerospace Grade https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083C5R7PG...HJAEXRY48CGRM0

Or this…

https://www.probolt-usa.com/aluminum...8x1-25mmx40mm/

Last edited by Biginboca; 10-01-2021 at 11:01 AM..
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      10-03-2021, 10:21 AM   #704
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In terms of galvanic corrosion with magnesium, Titanium is worse than steel or stainless steel. The closer the two metals in contact in this chart the less galvanic corrosion will happen. And titanium and magnesium is very apart from each other (about 1.5 volt difference between the too):



For galvanic corrosion to happen there has to be electrolyte solution between two dissimilar metals. Road salt mixed with rain, snow slush is one.
Because the bolt heads are pointing down in this case, the salted water will drain won't not stay. Also there is aluminum between the magnesium and the bolt's exposed head with these covers. That may be reducing the effect too.
The stainless steel bolts may have some plating on them that would reduce the contact and also corrosion as well, but it is not specified.

Overall it is better to use aluminum bolt, I think.
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