[JasW]

Originally Posted by nitehawk

1790 is the proper part for stock exhaust. But you can make a 1792 fit. Go with 1790.

Thank you, good sir. Now all that's left to find out for sure is whether I can keep my secondary cats -- and if I can't, whether there'd be any smell that I might not be able to live with.

[b1mmr]

Originally Posted by Briancanadiano

This is a e90. E92 doesn't have xpipe. Different story for e92

E90 doesn't have xpipe lol... Pre lci e90 has res... I know.. Cus I deleted mine

https://instagram.com/p/5Fh8pvRefp/

[nitehawk]

Originally Posted by JasW

Thank you, good sir. Now all that's left to find out for sure is whether I can keep my secondary cats -- and if I can't, whether there'd be any smell that I might not be able to live with.

FYI - here is another placement setup behind the x-pipe

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=861354

[mojobmw_e90]

I had the same issue. I bought the evo exhaust m2 for 290 shipped. Came in, installed and loved the sound at first. But as time went by it started getting raspier and started to sound like a civic.. Got fed up with it, bought 2 vibrant resonators from jegs(2.5''), removed the original resonators that came on the m2 and installed these and made a huge diffrence. Car pops less, sounds much quiter, and no raspe at 3500 like before.Highly recommended

[JasW]

Originally Posted by nitehawk

FYI - here is another placement setup behind the x-pipe

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=861354

That one's interesting -- comparing the two side by side (and I flipped the pic of the new one you linked), you see this placement avoided any problem with the heat shield (which is why the stock passenger side piping is slightly crushed in this part) by staggering the resonators.



The only problem I see is the bracing with the red plastic part seems to have been eliminated. It's still there in the set up on the right. As you can see in the pic below (which I'd posted in another thread when someone suggested the resonators should be placed where the green arrow is in front of the x-pipe instead of behind), those braces with the red plastic do seem to serve some purpose in holding things together.

[nitehawk]

Originally Posted by JasW

That one's interesting -- comparing the two side by side (and I flipped the pic of the new one you linked), you see this placement avoided any problem with the heat shield (which is why the stock passenger side piping is slightly crushed in this part) by staggering the resonators.

The only problem I see is the bracing with the red plastic part seems to have been eliminated. It's still there in the set up on the right. As you can see in the pic below (which I'd posted in another thread when someone suggested the resonators should be placed where the green arrow is in front of the x-pipe instead of behind), those braces with the red plastic do seem to serve some purpose in holding things together.

Those are exhaust hangers, looks like they deleted it on the passenger side. Not sure why, should be able to sustain it. Let us know how make out with yours.

[JasW]

Originally Posted by nitehawk

Those are exhaust hangers, looks like they deleted it on the passenger side. Not sure why, should be able to sustain it. Let us know how make out with yours.

Had the Vibrant 1790 resonators installed this morning. This was a complete and total waste of $250. ($100 for the resonators, $150 for the install.) I really don't see much if any difference with the rasp that kicks in just under 4500 RPM and holds until about 5500 RPM. It's still there in all its gory, ricey glory. I have no idea if it will improve the wake-the-dead cold start, but we'll see later. I sincerely doubt it.

The only place to put the resonators was where the secondary cats are. I showed the guys at the exhaust shop -- a top notch one that routinely does custom exhausts for performance cars -- pictures of the resonator placements that had kept the secondary cats. Here were the problems with the three possible places that would ostensibly allow one to keep the secondary cats:

1. The one that x-ception had done -- in the post above on the right -- they super strongly advised against given that it leaves one resonator dangerously pressed right against the gas tank. Note that x-ception reported totaling his car less than a month after he had this done. So we don't know if his car would have blown up later anyway.
   
   
2. The one in the post above on the left they might have done, but they said it was a highly custom job and involved modifying the big silver x-braces I have (see pics below) and the guy in the pic on the left above did not.
   
   
3. The third possible place -- in front of the x-pipe toward the front end of the car -- was impossible. Although the plate that's there (se pic below) could be removed, one of the resonators simply wouldn't fit.

So, OK, I figured most who have done this have simply swapped out the secondary cats for the resonators, I'll do the same and at least I'll get rid of the rasp, right? Wrong.

I can't believe the however many people here who have done this -- maybe half a dozen? -- could be lying. Nor can I believe that just because I have a 335is exhaust (with catless ar DPs), that makes some kind of difference. The resonators looked fine to me -- what's there to see, they're empty bottle shaped resonators. Maybe it's because I have an MT, and am wont to wind out 1st and 2nd gears to 6000 RPM regularly, while the other folks drive their stodgy ATs in old man mode. Who knows. I'm stumped.

In any event, here are some pics, the first two showing various possible placement areas, the third showing the resonators after they'd been put in.

Color me disappointed. You've been warned.

[DennyD06]

^wth !! Thanks for the honest assessment . I'm mind blown those other people that did this mod could be lying . I'm also a MT . Just put on my CPE exhaust system which has no resonators and it sounds terrible with my vrsf kittyless pipes . I was planning to do this mod to kill rasp ��... I might have to switch to catted dp now , and hope for the best

[Briancanadiano]

Wow!!! I feel bad for you man. So many people saying it makes such a big difference... I guess there's no point in installing these then? Maybe you should have left the secondaries in and added these upstream maybe? I have the 1792 if that makes a difference. So no change in sound at all?

[JasW]

Originally Posted by DennyD06

^wth !! Thanks for the honest assessment . I'm mind blown those other people that did this mod could be lying . I'm also a MT . Just put on my CPE exhaust system which has no resonators and it sounds terrible with my vrsf kittyless pipes . I was planning to do this mod to kill rasp ��... I might have to switch to catted dp now , and hope for the best

I don't actually think they're lying. There have to be other variables at play. First and foremost is the MT, because by far and away the worst part of the rasp for me is when I'm winding out in 1st gear. I noticed this immediately yesterday accelerating from a stoplight just before a big highway underpass. I hit the magic 4500-5500 RPM spot in 1st gear just when I went under the highway -- had the top down, too -- and the metallic blat echoing off the concrete was deafening. AT drivers obviously do not wind out like this.

The windout in second gear does seems ever so slightly more restrained now. Overall, there does seem to be a improvement in the sound -- not so barrel heavy. The cold start is improved, too. There was an initial split-second of untamed loudness when I started it this morning -- I could have been pushing a little too much on the throttle -- but the start on the whole didn't have nearly the same busted muffler sound as it had had previously.

The one major drawback of swapping out the secondary cats for the resonator, though, is fumes and smoke. Not a lot of smoke, but enough. And the fumes when I back into my garage definitely linger in a big way and make the place smell like Port Authority.

I could live with that if the resonators had done the main thing I bought them for -- getting rid of the 4500-5500 RPM rasp in 1st gear. They simply don't.

Originally Posted by Briancanadiano

Wow!!! I feel bad for you man. So many people saying it makes such a big difference... I guess there's no point in installing these then? Maybe you should have left the secondaries in and added these upstream maybe? I have the 1792 if that makes a difference. So no change in sound at all?

I think this is a case of YMMV, and if you drive an AT, it may do the trick. But not an MT. As I mentioned above, there does seem to be an overall improvement in sound, but of course one man's sweet exhaust is another man's broken muffler. There is simply no place to put the resonators upstream. The only conceivable place would be right after the cats, where that plate with the four bolts on each side is in the pictures above. One would fit on the driver's side there, but the other won't fit on the passenger side.

I've kept the cats, so I can always have them put back. Hell, I have my stock DPs, too, so there's always that as well. But I think what I might look into are the ar design catless DPs with the built-in resonators, or possibly even high-flow catted DPs (at this point I don't care if I lose the 5hp or whatever by going catted). The problem that resulted in my current situation remains, however: it's really hard to find out what any of these would sound
like with an MT. Got dam AT drivers.

Edit: after another cold start and driving home, the difference between with and without resonators seemed absolutely inconsequential. Rasp City. Now featuring stink and smoke. I'm going to look into catted DPs, or maybe the ar design DPs with built-in resonators. I'll probably put the secondaries back if I do that. What a waste of $$.

[nitehawk]

Looks like the verts have different bracing from the coupes preventing you from utilizing the 'second' option. I'm surprised though that the resonators didn't make as much of a difference for you. Give it some time, maybe the resonators need some miles on them to work effectively. The other thing working against you is that deleting the secondary cats increases the overall loudness of your exhaust.

I think getting a set of high flow catted DP would be a good solution to cut down on the increased noise, rasp, while still allowing you to run an aggressive tune. Also keeps you from hacking up your exhaust again. And since you deleted your secondaries, power wise, you'd probably still be where you were with catless dp and stock secondaries.

[JasW]

Originally Posted by nitehawk

Looks like the verts have different bracing from the coupes preventing you from utilizing the 'second' option. I'm surprised though that the resonators didn't make as much of a difference for you. Give it some time, maybe the resonators need some miles on them to work effectively. The other thing working against you is that deleting the secondary cats increases the overall loudness of your exhaust.

I think getting a set of high flow catted DP would be a good solution to cut down on the increased noise, rasp, while still allowing you to run an aggressive tune. Also keeps you from hacking up your exhaust again. And since you deleted your secondaries, power wise, you'd probably still be where you were with catless dp and stock secondaries.

Pretty sure it's not going to change. Sometimes -- actually, most of the time -- the cold start is better. But the rasp, no. Someone in the AR resonated DPs thread said that this was something peculiar to 335is and PE mufflers -- you're stuck with the rasp when putting in catless DPs. I am seriously considering going to high flow catted, though I'm trying to find out if the AR resonated catless would make a difference. That would be an expensive mistake to make if they didn't. I'd put the mid-cats back if they did because the car also stinks.

[DennyD06]

Just picked up a set of CPE catted downpipes . I'll be swapping them for my kittyless one in hopes it will get rid of the rasp. I don't really want to hack the the CPE mid pipes to put vibrant resonators on them .

[matthewo]

Man sorry it didn't work for you

I have a e92 MT and no cats and vibrant res inplace of secondary cats with standard 335i muffler

The sound is quiet no drone almost stock under normal driving. 1st gear has great mild burble off mid rpm fuel cutoff, winding out gears is intoxicating with the window down and reflecting off buildings/tunnels. It's not ricey or raspy at all, it's almost exotic and similar in sound to a gtr but maybe not as deep pitched. Then the turbo sound compliments it well. I even have non car people telling me they like how it sounds.

I feel I'm very discriminating in exhaust as it's my daily driver and my wife would be the first to critique as she hates I got another BMW due to repairs and that it's a coupe and I have a young son, but nothing about the exhaust...

[Briancanadiano]

Originally Posted by JasW

I don't actually think they're lying. There have to be other variables at play. First and foremost is the MT, because by far and away the worst part of the rasp for me is when I'm winding out in 1st gear. I noticed this immediately yesterday accelerating from a stoplight just before a big highway underpass. I hit the magic 4500-5500 RPM spot in 1st gear just when I went under the highway -- had the top down, too -- and the metallic blat echoing off the concrete was deafening. AT drivers obviously do not wind out like this.

The windout in second gear does seems ever so slightly more restrained now. Overall, there does seem to be a improvement in the sound -- not so barrel heavy. The cold start is improved, too. There was an initial split-second of untamed loudness when I started it this morning -- I could have been pushing a little too much on the throttle -- but the start on the whole didn't have nearly the same busted muffler sound as it had had previously.

The one major drawback of swapping out the secondary cats for the resonator, though, is fumes and smoke. Not a lot of smoke, but enough. And the fumes when I back into my garage definitely linger in a big way and make the place smell like Port Authority.

I could live with that if the resonators had done the main thing I bought them for -- getting rid of the 4500-5500 RPM rasp in 1st gear. They simply don't.

I think this is a case of YMMV, and if you drive an AT, it may do the trick. But not an MT. As I mentioned above, there does seem to be an overall improvement in sound, but of course one man's sweet exhaust is another man's broken muffler. There is simply no place to put the resonators upstream. The only conceivable place would be right after the cats, where that plate with the four bolts on each side is in the pictures above. One would fit on the driver's side there, but the other won't fit on the passenger side.

I've kept the cats, so I can always have them put back. Hell, I have my stock DPs, too, so there's always that as well. But I think what I might look into are the ar design catless DPs with the built-in resonators, or possibly even high-flow catted DPs (at this point I don't care if I lose the 5hp or whatever by going catted). The problem that resulted in my current situation remains, however: it's really hard to find out what any of these would sound
like with an MT. Got dam AT drivers.

Edit: after another cold start and driving home, the difference between with and without resonators seemed absolutely inconsequential. Rasp City. Now featuring stink and smoke. I'm going to look into catted DPs, or maybe the ar design DPs with built-in resonators. I'll probably put the secondaries back if I do that. What a waste of $$.

I'm starting to think that if I was in your shoes, maybe my next option where I'm not trying to spend to much $$$ or time would be to put on stock 335 mufflers. As they are significantly quieter then the performance and 335is exhaust, they might just tone down the rasp and farty civic sound your getting in the upper range.. Don't waste 1000 bucks on some downpipes that probably won't do shit, keep that option as a last resort. I know your frustration! I've been through 4 exhausts on my 335 because I'm very picky when it comes to sound, and let's face it, 335 aren't the best sounding cars, the setup I finally went with was 335is mufflers with cat less downpipes. But the rasp just like yours is a serious turn off, but oh well... Good luck and keep us posted

[JasW]

Originally Posted by Briancanadiano

I'm starting to think that if I was in your shoes, maybe my next option where I'm not trying to spend to much $$$ or time would be to put on stock 335 mufflers. As they are significantly quieter then the performance and 335is exhaust, they might just tone down the rasp and farty civic sound your getting in the upper range.. Don't waste 1000 bucks on some downpipes that probably won't do shit, keep that option as a last resort. I know your frustration! I've been through 4 exhausts on my 335 because I'm very picky when it comes to sound, and let's face it, 335 aren't the best sounding cars, the setup I finally went with was 335is mufflers with cat less downpipes. But the rasp just like yours is a serious turn off, but oh well... Good luck and keep us posted

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that high-flow catted DPs are the only thing that's going to cure the rasp -- the built-in resonators on the resonated AR catless DPs with are apparently not long enough to get rid of the rasp. The IS exhaust is great -- you put one in yourself! -- so I'm not inclined to mess with that, not unless I can be assured that the rasp will disappear.

Someone in another thread told me the problem was the IS exhaust, and that I should put in the PE -- then I remembered the thread where people were bitching about the rasp they got going catless with the PE. Apparently, a lot of people actually like the raspy sound. I don't see how you don't have it with an IS exhaust and catless DPs. It is such an annoying, metallic, buzz-saw-like increase in sound that cuts into the cabin even when the windows are up right at 4500 RPM in 1st and 2nd gear -- you don't have that?

[matthewo]

just put a 335i muffler on man, they are pretty much free, nobody wants them...

[JasW]

Originally Posted by matthewo

just put a 335i muffler on man, they are pretty much free, nobody wants them...

Exactly, nobody wants them for a reason. The sound I have right now is beyond terrific -- all except in that RPM range of 4500-5500 RPM in 1st and 2nd gear. So I'm not about to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

[JasW]

Originally Posted by DennyD06

Just picked up a set of CPE catted downpipes . I'll be swapping them for my kittyless one in hopes it will get rid of the rasp. I don't really want to hack the the CPE mid pipes to put vibrant resonators on them .

Let me know how that sounds. I'm going to keep the mid-cats deleted and the vibrants in place b/c presumably the cats in the new catted DPs will take care of most of the stink and smoke. If not, I can just have the exhaust shop put the mid-cats back, but I'm hoping having them out will keep the exhaust freer flowing.

[DennyD06]

Originally Posted by JasW

Let me know how that sounds. I'm going to keep the mid-cats deleted and the vibrants in place b/c presumably the cats in the new catted DPs will take care of most of the stink and smoke. If not, I can just have the exhaust shop put the mid-cats back, but I'm hoping having them out will keep the exhaust freer flowing.

Just put in my CPE catted downpipes and the rasp is GONE . Hallelujah! The CPE midpipes have no resonators either so I'm glad it worked out

[JasW]

Originally Posted by DennyD06

Just put in my CPE catted downpipes and the rasp is GONE . Hallelujah! The CPE midpipes have no resonators either so I'm glad it worked out

Glad to hear that! I'm having the Cobb catted put in tomorrow, and I can't wait to get rid of that crappy sound. I can't understand how anyone could put up with it.

[JasW]

Well, the Cobb catted are in, but the rasp isn't totally gone. It's not always present at the 4500-5500 RPM range, and when it is, it has less of metallic edge; but it's far from sounding like I've gone and put the stock DPs back in. Not sure if the difference is enough to have warranted bailing on the AR catless (which I will put up for sale shortly).

I'm wondering if I should put the secondary cats back in and lose the Vibrant resonators. For all I know, the secondary cats combined with the primary cats might make a difference.