[Mik325tds]

Inspired by Yozh and sunny_j post and videos on how to replace the Valve cover gasket (https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1676508), I'd like to research if we can determine timing chain stretch by reading the cam timing of our engine using TestO. This could help to determine if it is due for replacement before it causes major engine trouble.

Hopefully, we can motivate a few members to spend about 15-30 minutes to read their values and post here so I can assemble a database. Here's what I'd like you to do:
1. Download and install TestO from our friend pheno: Follow the link in this post: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ime-graph-view
2. If you could, donate a few bucks to this guy for his tool. He helped this forum immensely.
3. Follow Yozh's videos for setup and general usage: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...6&page=1&pp=22
4. Connect to your car, start it up, start TestO, select ECU "DDE 7.3 für N57" and setup a custom job for measuring CAM timing:
4.1 For that, go to the menu "Tools" and select "Custom Jobs"
4.2 Click "New Job" on the bottom left of the new window that just opened and name it Cam Timing.
4.3 Click the button "Table..." on the lower right corner
4.4 Enter the search term STAT_EpmCaS_phiOfsCorr and double click on the result
4.5 Click "Start Job" and a new window should open displaying your CAM timing (see below picture).
5. Read the value in the field STAT_EpmCaS_phiOfsCorr_WERT and put it into this Google sheet. To better compare the values the engine should be at operating temperature (80-89C).

[Mik325tds]

Please use the following format:
UserName; Year; Model; CamTiming; Miles; Driving Style; Comments
Mik325tds; 2011; X5 35d; 0.991; 109500; Mostly highway; Unknown driving style before 80k
Mik325tds; 2011; 335d; 0.618; 154000; Mostly highway; Real stretch unknown

[sunny_j]

sunny_j; 2012; X5d; 0.289; 88,000 miles; Mix city & highway; I drive my x5d pretty hard

maybe throw this up in google sheets? it will be easier to sort.

[apexit4]

Originally Posted by sunny_j

sunny_j; 2012; X5d; 0.289; 88,000 miles; Mix city & highway; I drive my x5d pretty hard

maybe throw this up in google sheets? it will be easier to sort.

Google Sheets is a great idea for this data. It would make it more visually appealing and easier to calculate any new data (averages, standard deviation, etc).

[apexit4]

I decided to take the initiative and create a google sheet to keep track of the data. If you guys are cool with doing it that way, here's the link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

It's set so that anyone with the link is allowed to edit the data.

[Mik325tds]

Originally Posted by apexit4

I decided to take the initiative and create a google sheet to keep track of the data. If you guys are cool with doing it that way, here's the link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

It's set so that anyone with the link is allowed to edit the data.

Very cool. Thanks!

[Spyro235]

I'll install testo and try to get this done this weekend. Original chains at 251k, while I've only owned sicne 203k, it must have been a high mileage highway commuter based on what I've found out about its life. Interested how my value compares, since I've done a few thousand miles of pretty heavy duty towing since I've had it.

[Mik325tds]

Originally Posted by Spyro235

I'll install testo and try to get this done this weekend. Original chains at 251k, while I've only owned sicne 203k, it must have been a high mileage highway commuter based on what I've found out about its life. Interested how my value compares, since I've done a few thousand miles of pretty heavy duty towing since I've had it.

That'll be good data to have. Thanks!

[Mik325tds]

I got an email from our banned friend Ryan. He explained that the timing changes anytime you crank the engine. So let's do 3-5 cranks and post min-max.

He also share some of his experience what he has seen:
"Stock, unopened motors I’ve seen .100-.900 of a degree. Motors that been opened/ timing adjusted for one reason or another, -3* to 4*. The Chinese copied timing tools are off. Using bmw tools timing will read .000-.0600. Directions in ista are also lightly misleading. Factory Timed engines do not line up with Istas timing directions. Every low mile m57 I’ve looked at has the Intake cam gear slightly retarded, essentially the bottom dot is slightly above the plane of the head."

[RED-d]

I need to do this!

[apexit4]

Doesnt seem like there has been much interest on here with taking measurements. Maybe posting this on the facebook group with the link would yield more results?

[Owen81]

Is this job accessible in ProTool? You would have way more takers if that is the case.

The engine has to be running for this as well? Or you crank it?

[Mik325tds]

Originally Posted by apexit4

Doesnt seem like there has been much interest on here with taking measurements. Maybe posting this on the facebook group with the link would yield more results?

I'm not on the Facebook group. If you are, please go ahead and post the link there.

[Owen81]

After some time digging and translating, I seem to have found it in ProTool:


Brings up the bottom value:


Is this correct?
Is the "Condition of the camshaft evaluation" data useful?

I added my averaged data to Google sheets.

To get there:

1. Start ProTool
2. Click Drivetrain
3. Select DDE / Engine
4. Select Live Data
5. Select Raw
6. Search "Cam"
7. Select "Offset Angle for Camshaft"
8. Confirm

I would recommend you make it so people can add to Google sheets but not delete anything if this is possible.

I did add some columns for tune, deletes and MPG. I feel that MPG is a better indication of driving style, rather than their subjective opinion.

[Owen81]

Mik325tds Is that the parameter you were looking for?

[apexit4]

Originally Posted by Owen81

After some time digging and translating, I seem to have found it in ProTool:


Brings up the bottom value:


Is this correct?
Is the "Condition of the camshaft evaluation" data useful?

I added my averaged data to Google sheets.

To get there:

1. Start ProTool
2. Click Drivetrain
3. Select DDE / Engine
4. Select Live Data
5. Select Raw
6. Search "Cam"
7. Select "Offset Angle for Camshaft"
8. Confirm

I would recommend you make it so people can add to Google sheets but not delete anything if this is possible.

I did add some columns for tune, deletes and MPG. I feel that MPG is a better indication of driving style, rather than their subjective opinion.

Thanks for doing the research and seeing if there's a way to do it using ProTool. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me can chime in if it's the same value.

I'll try a little later today to see if I can adjust the google docs permissions as you suggested.

[apexit4]

I took a look at the permissions to google docs but there's no way to enable adding data and preventing removal/deletion of other data. Which actually makes sense, I dont think I've ever seen permissions like that anywhere else.

That being said, maybe there is a revision history saved somewhere. I'll look into it when I have some time.

[Owen81]

Offset Winkel für Nockenwelle (Rohwert)
Translates directly to:
Offset angle for camshaft (raw value)

So I assume it is correct, maybe Protools interprets the data differently though.
Perhaps someone with Protools and Testo could compare?

[apexit4]

Originally Posted by Owen81

Offset Winkel für Nockenwelle (Rohwert)
Translates directly to:
Offset angle for camshaft (raw value)

So I assume it is correct, maybe Protools interprets the data differently though.
Perhaps someone with Protools and Testo could compare?

Thanks for the translation.

Good idea on comparing the values between Testo and ProTool. I dont have Testo installed myself, but its on my todo list during this pandemic (along with whole list of other projects).

[apexit4]

Google Sheets FTW! It has built in version history as well as the ability to lock/protect user defined cells.

As a test, I protected the column headers to see how well it works. I was going to protect the current data but seeing as version history keeps track of any changes, Im going to leave the data open to editing. That should allow anyone to come back and re-edit any of their data if they need to. If this ever becomes a problem, I can always go back in, fix the data to the original values and protect it once done.

[robnitro]

I added my average of 0.350 after 6 restarts. Is there anything to come from it without the baseline, or are we to check and see concerned if it increases? What's the method?

Also if possible, put the Google sheets link on the first post .

[Mik325tds]

Originally Posted by robnitro

I added my average of 0.350 after 6 restarts. Is there anything to come from it without the baseline, or are we to check and see concerned if it increases? What's the method?

Also if possible, put the Google sheets link on the first post .

Well, my hope was to be able to correlate the mileage with increased stretch and offset angle. But with only five data points there is not much correlation to be done...
Thanks for the suggestion. Done.