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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Has anyone contacted BMW regarding 29.2 and lag?



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      11-05-2008, 03:18 PM   #2663
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sorry if this has been anwered. i couldn't get through the whole thread.
will Dinan, Procede, JB3 tunes be affected by this?
thanks for your patience
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      11-05-2008, 03:34 PM   #2664
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Originally Posted by BMWGSXR View Post
BMWfanny:

So instead of getting another BMW, you are going to get into a Lexus that is inadequate even to a "neutered" 335? Way to think that through
noob...at least when you test drive a Lexus or a whatever you replace your BMW with you will get what you test drive. No strings attached. With a BMW its like a box of chocolates. "you never know what your gunna get" This is my 9th BMW and certainly my last. BMW has pulled the rug out from under us and has lied and de tuned a 50k car without explanation. You like apples, how do you like them apples.
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      11-05-2008, 03:35 PM   #2665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyemdbmw View Post
sorry if this has been anwered. i couldn't get through the whole thread.
will Dinan, Procede, JB3 tunes be affected by this?
thanks for your patience
The quick and dirty:

The Dinan flash is exactly that--a flash of your car's CPU--so the software version you have on it at the time of the flash shouldn't matter. I am not sure about how it works if you go to the dealer and receive a software update.

The Procede has a specific way to deal with the lag, I believe.

The JB3 doesn't address the lag specifically, but coming from someone who has one, the car feels a lot better. I don't notice the lag as much, but this has not been the experience of other JB3 owners with the 29.2+ software.

Hope that helps.
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      11-05-2008, 03:37 PM   #2666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tschuss View Post
I finally got word from my dealer that BMW is working a fix. No other information to provide.

-B

Who did you get the info from and what dealer did you talk to. PM me if you dont want to expose the info on this thread. I would like to hear this info myself. Thank you Tschuss....RB
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      11-05-2008, 03:41 PM   #2667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezatnova View Post
+ 1,000,000. What a noob.


RBBMW, to address your question about more "lag" or hesitation in the rain...well, not to be too obvious about this, but, it's probably just the tires slipping a bit and the car cutting power. My car does this in the rain all the time and MANY times the traction light does not blink. You really have to get a few revolutions of slip on a tire to light that light. Trust me that the system is braking and pulling power often in the rain, despite no light showing.
On a related side note, now that I have my boost gauge, it's funny to see that if I do a stupid full throttle launch in the rain, and the traction control goes apeshit, my max boost is quite low. Just neat to see the car thinking and trying to manage the loss of traction.

...Sorry friend, not my question
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      11-05-2008, 03:45 PM   #2668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBBMWE46M3 View Post
noob...at least when you test drive a Lexus or a whatever you replace your BMW with you will get what you test drive. No strings attached. With a BMW its like a box of chocolates. "you never know what your gunna get" This is my 9th BMW and certainly my last. BMW has pulled the rug out from under us and has lied and de tuned a 50k car without explanation. You like apples, how do you like them apples.
Did you ever decide on getting a tune? It has made enough difference for me that I can stand the car again--feels alot more along the lines of how it "should".

The whole bait and switch really pisses me off as well--more so than the reduced perfomance.
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      11-05-2008, 03:47 PM   #2669
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Very short review of 2009 E90 335

The car I drove was 2009 e90 335i (non-sport, 6at, no paddles, premium, winter). My daily driver is 2007 e90 335i sport 6at w/ paddles. My car was updated to 29.2 in May.

I know a lot of you guys are fed up with this lag issue and probably dont care much how the 2009 car compares. That's understandable, so please feel free to ignore this post...my lease is up and I was curious to know if the 2009 was less laggy...so I drove one.

It's hard to tell on a short test drive. But, the power delivery of the 2009 car was definately "different". I wonder if maybe the fact that the car was non-sport was fooling me...i.e. maybe the effect of the suspension compressing more under accelleration may have made it feel more powerful down low.

With the car warmed up to 250-255, I tried a few pulls from 1500-1700rpm in 2nd gear up to "at least 4500rpm" . The power seems to be coming on smoother than my 2007, but it didnt feel like 300lbs and I'm not sure that the lag is gone...just manifesting in a different way maybe? Hard to describe. Its almost like the throttle-response is a lot better but the torque is not really coming on until about 2.5k or 3k. The 2009 power is coming on smoother and the lag seems a bit less noticeable. It did not seem to be quite up to par with what I remember before 29.2. But, again it's hard to tell from a 20 mile test-drive.

I also tried a pull from about 2k in 4th gear on the highway...seemed to take forever to make power hard to tell. I need to spend a day or so with the car to really get a feel for it.

Other random comments: 1) The car was SG but looked A LOT lighter. It looked like it was about half way between SG and Ti silver. It's probably just my screwed up eyeballs, but that surprised me...I've seen lots of SG cars so I thought I knew what SG looked like...
2) CA said there are no 2-year leases as of now...wierd.
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      11-05-2008, 04:02 PM   #2670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
The quick and dirty:

The Dinan flash is exactly that--a flash of your car's CPU--so the software version you have on it at the time of the flash shouldn't matter. I am not sure about how it works if you go to the dealer and receive a software update.

The Procede has a specific way to deal with the lag, I believe.

The JB3 doesn't address the lag specifically, but coming from someone who has one, the car feels a lot better. I don't notice the lag as much, but this has not been the experience of other JB3 owners with the 29.2+ software.

Hope that helps.
Certainly does. Looks like I have to do some more research.
Thank you.
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      11-05-2008, 04:39 PM   #2671
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Hi
I have e93 2007 pre 29.2 335i but upgraded with last firmware... so now turbo lag

Here in europe as well no way to have an hardware solution and back to old firmware.

But i did a little modification to reduce the turbo lag:

Simply bypass the left (the most close to rear of car) boost control solenoid by simply disconnecting the small pipes and connecting them together.
This mod is reversible and invisible. It will close partially the wasgates at idle...
No failure codes, running this since 2 weeks now.

Try and let me know....
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      11-05-2008, 04:44 PM   #2672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marconi118 View Post
Simply bypass the left (the most close to rear of car) boost control solenoid by simply disconnecting the small pipes and connecting them together.
This mod is reversible and invisible. It will close partially the wasgates at idle...
No failure codes, running this since 2 weeks now.

Try and let me know....
Pictures?
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      11-05-2008, 04:47 PM   #2673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marconi118 View Post
Hi
I have e93 2007 pre 29.2 335i but upgraded with last firmware... so now turbo lag

Here in europe as well no way to have an hardware solution and back to old firmware.

But i did a little modification to reduce the turbo lag:

Simply bypass the left (the most close to rear of car) boost control solenoid by simply disconnecting the small pipes and connecting them together.
This mod is reversible and invisible. It will close partially the wasgates at idle...
No failure codes, running this since 2 weeks now.

Try and let me know....
That's a dangerous recommendation. You sure know what you are doing? You effectively disable the wastegate of one of your turbos. That means 3 of 6 cylinders make boost from low RPM, but also, when you rev up, excess boost is being applied. Same thing applies when you suddenly rev down from a WOT run. This will most probably kill your engine in the long run. Also, I doubt that this mod is "invisible" as you claim - with all the plausibility checks from v29.2 upwards...


Just my 2 cents.
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      11-05-2008, 05:16 PM   #2674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meyergru View Post
That's a dangerous recommendation. You sure know what you are doing? You effectively disable the wastegate of one of your turbos.
Actually, the way I read it, he is using the forward solenoid to control BOTH wastegates. Hes is not disabling either.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...75&hg=11&fg=45
Note that they are NOT independent vacuum circuits. See the straight tubing between the two tees that joins them.

Since rumor has it that the rear is the one kept open longer, moving control of both to the front may just work.

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      11-05-2008, 05:20 PM   #2675
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I will post pictures tomorrow.

If you look carefully at the small pipes, the 2 wasgate actuators are connected together with tee adapter and the 2 boost control solenoid are in parallel to control both actuators at the same time. bypassing one of these brings some more vacuum to the actuators and half close wasgates of both turbos.
The second solenoid stays in the circuit to control the wasgates when boost pressure is reached. DME still can control boost and don't goes to limb mode.

maybe a failure code is stored in the ECU, when I go to dealer I can clain that problems are still there...

now turbo lag is less but rattle is again there.
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      11-05-2008, 05:28 PM   #2676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marconi118 View Post
I will post pictures tomorrow.

If you look carefully at the small pipes, the 2 wasgate actuators are connected together with tee adapter and the 2 boost control solenoid are in parallel to control both actuators at the same time. bypassing one of these brings some more vacuum to the actuators and half close wasgates of both turbos.
The second solenoid stays in the circuit to control the wasgates when boost pressure is reached. DME still can control boost and don't goes to limb mode.
Correct, I just looked it up. The two solenoids are joined together at their outputs. Strange. Why are there two then in the first place? I just guessed there were two to control each wastegate separately, but that ain't so.

But you will generate more boost by your mod, which could trigger a hidden failure code and could also damage the engine. It's just not asymetric as I assumed. Nice trick to gain boost, though...
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      11-05-2008, 05:31 PM   #2677
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procede v1, aa xede and processor, jb, and helix, all use this very same "solenoid bypass" method
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      11-05-2008, 05:41 PM   #2678
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I think there are 2 solenoid in parallel for security reasons, in case one is not working the other can still control somehow.

I have tested that bypassing the rear one closes the wasgates more than bypassing the front one.

Another thing: the 2 solenoids receive vacuum from an individual vaccum accumulator (the 2 round cylinders near the cooling liquid tank) but this vacuum comes from the same vacuum pump (just follow the pipes to see). BMW created 2 separate vacuum lines that connects together with a tee before the actuators, to have redundancy in case of failure of pipes and solenoids. At least this is one of the reasons I can imagine.
if boost is too high the DME goes in limb mode and prevents engine damage by closing the throttle valve and reducing fueling. I tested this shortly and accelerating carefully, after bypassing both solenoids. then after 3500rpm there is message on display: disfunction of engine, power is reduced. car goes slow, and only after power off power on it goes again. BUT in this case the turbolag at low rpm (below 3000) is comletely gone
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      11-05-2008, 06:14 PM   #2679
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Interesting about the solenoids and also the fact that the tunes bypass them as well.
Kind of bizarre that the owners of the cars are the ones trying all these things out on thier own cars attempting to fix a problem they shouldnt even have.( and BMW themselves cant seem to fix)

Ezat, that was me with the rain question, but it is not the wheels, it will do this not only when pulling away but also when already moving. Doesnt need WOT, just cruising along and the power dips a bit and comes back.
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      11-05-2008, 06:32 PM   #2680
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Ok, let me share my experience on this. I have a 2009 335i sedan M Sport (european spec).

I have never drove a pre-29.2 car before, but I can tell you that BMW changed something. Otherwise the magazines were not raving about the car. Because right now, until 3000RPM the engine is not mind-blowing at all.

Don't get me wrong. There is no lag whatsoever. The throttle response is immediate and powerful. But not powerful as I feel it could be. I am convinced BMW deliberately reduced the torque at low revs.

And since the 2009 facelift is a pretty major one, if they had hardware problems requiring detuning they would have solved the problem for the 2009 model. But they didn't. Which I think is a sign that they want it to remain like this.

And why would this be ? Maybe because if you test drove a 335i and after this an M3, you wouldn't bought the M3 anymore since in Europe si exactly 55% more expensive than the 335i ?
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      11-05-2008, 08:00 PM   #2681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWGSXR View Post
BMWfanny:

So instead of getting another BMW, you are going to get into a Lexus that is inadequate even to a "neutered" 335? Way to think that through
Have you ever owned a high-end Lexus? The cars (in my multiple experiences) don't change. Whatever I test drive will be the car I sell in a few years. They don't break, have astonishing service (many dealers -- probably some BMW dealers too), etc.

Do you think the 335i is the fastest / best car on the road? I really liked the mix (price / performance / design / expected reliability / etc) as purchased. They've changed my long-term expectations and damaged their reputation with me.

I'm just pointing out that all this 29.x / Lag stuff eroded my enthusiasm and I won't be buying another BMW. If BMW has to modify the software to protect the hardware, that makes we worry about long term reliability. For me, its mostly hassle, not cost, given I'll mainly be driving the car under warranty.

I'm not saying my future lexus is better than anyone's car, just given my feelings now, it would be better for me...

Last edited by BmwFanFL; 11-05-2008 at 08:19 PM..
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      11-05-2008, 08:02 PM   #2682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWagain View Post
Donīt go to any BMW garage.Keep out. Do your oilchanges
elsewhere. Be happy with your 29.2 and enjoy the beast.
Good advice, as long as all the lights blink right. One little problem (actually have a couple) and I run the dreaded progman update risk...
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      11-05-2008, 11:52 PM   #2683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler9595 View Post
The car I drove was 2009 e90 335i (non-sport, 6at, no paddles, premium, winter). My daily driver is 2007 e90 335i sport 6at w/ paddles. My car was updated to 29.2 in May.

I know a lot of you guys are fed up with this lag issue and probably dont care much how the 2009 car compares. That's understandable, so please feel free to ignore this post...my lease is up and I was curious to know if the 2009 was less laggy...so I drove one.

It's hard to tell on a short test drive. But, the power delivery of the 2009 car was definately "different". I wonder if maybe the fact that the car was non-sport was fooling me...i.e. maybe the effect of the suspension compressing more under accelleration may have made it feel more powerful down low.

With the car warmed up to 250-255, I tried a few pulls from 1500-1700rpm in 2nd gear up to "at least 4500rpm" . The power seems to be coming on smoother than my 2007, but it didnt feel like 300lbs and I'm not sure that the lag is gone...just manifesting in a different way maybe? Hard to describe. Its almost like the throttle-response is a lot better but the torque is not really coming on until about 2.5k or 3k. The 2009 power is coming on smoother and the lag seems a bit less noticeable. It did not seem to be quite up to par with what I remember before 29.2. But, again it's hard to tell from a 20 mile test-drive.

I also tried a pull from about 2k in 4th gear on the highway...seemed to take forever to make power hard to tell. I need to spend a day or so with the car to really get a feel for it.

Other random comments: 1) The car was SG but looked A LOT lighter. It looked like it was about half way between SG and Ti silver. It's probably just my screwed up eyeballs, but that surprised me...I've seen lots of SG cars so I thought I knew what SG looked like...
2) CA said there are no 2-year leases as of now...wierd.
Welcome to 29.2+ with the 2009 turbos. Your words could easily be a description of my experience with the new turbos. It's still not fixed.
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      11-06-2008, 05:14 AM   #2684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BmwFanny View Post
Good advice, as long as all the lights blink right. One little problem (actually have a couple) and I run the dreaded progman update risk...

or u need to keep an eye on bmw mechanics what they do with your car
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